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Old 01-12-2019, 10:58 AM   #1
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Work Camping Employment Discrimination

I have "Work Camped" for the last 4 years. Some have been typical workcamping jobs some have been not so traditional as in working as a driver-guide for Holland America/Princess Alaska.


But in my research for workcamping jobs I continually run in to employers who ask for a personal photo to accompany an application.


This requirement is clearly in violation of EEOC rules and the following Federal Laws:


These include the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 and the Civil Service Reform Act of 1978. The Americans With Disabilities Act of 1990 (Title I and V) also makes requesting a photograph illegal in most cases.


The ONLY generally accepted exception is for the performing arts; acting modeling, theatre etc.


There is only one reason to ask for a personal photo and that is for purposes of discrimination.


As a former business owner and CEO of public companies and one who has hired literally hundreds of people I have considerable experience in hiring and HR/EEOC rules and regulations. NO reputable company would ask for a personal photo with an application.


Yet I see it on almost every workcamping job board no matter where it is posted.


I think anyone concerned about discrimination in any form be very wary of companies that require a personal photo. If they are willing to violate this widely understood law they are unlikely to adhere to other rules and regulations in regards to pay, work hours, workers compensation, and any other promises they may make.



Also I would hope that sites like this would be sure that those that advertise on their sites be in full compliance with the Federal Laws in their ads.


I would urge those who are workcamping to think carefully about this and look critically at the companies as they apply for their jobs.
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:08 AM   #2
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Well technically work camping is illegal if you don't claim the barter exchange so, not only is the campground doing an illegal act by asking for a photo but the work camper is also committing an illegal act if work camping pays for their camp site and they don't claim the barter dollars.

"Because "barter dollars, (the fair market value of the goods and services you received) are taxed as if they are cash, you can owe income tax, self-employment tax, employment tax, or even excise tax on your bartering income -- even if you don't actually receive a penny in cash."

You may NOT want to complain to higher sources as they "IRS" may come after you if you didn't pay taxes on the barter dollars.
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:22 AM   #3
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I reAlly donít know why itís a problem . When applying for a ďtraditional job ď , you typically have s face to face interview . The employer can just as easily discriminate during the interview.
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:42 PM   #4
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Also there are other ways to discriminate. For example, maybe you shouldnít be required to put your name on the resume , they could often times assume gender & race or maybe even religion based on your name . So no more names on resumes
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:09 PM   #5
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We workcamp and I don't have a problem providing a picture of our rig. Especially now that our fifth wheel camper has reached the 10 year mark, but they don't know it is in excellent condition. After seeing some of the rigs people have, I don't blame a cg for wanting a picture of the rig. The great thing about workcamping is it's usually not a long term job and if it don't fit then just leave (under the best terms you can). So far we have only had very good gigs and I believe it comes from the more communication up front the better.
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:53 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by grindstone01 View Post
We workcamp and I don't have a problem providing a picture of our rig. Especially now that our fifth wheel camper has reached the 10 year mark, but they don't know it is in excellent condition. After seeing some of the rigs people have, I don't blame a cg for wanting a picture of the rig. The great thing about workcamping is it's usually not a long term job and if it don't fit then just leave (under the best terms you can). So far we have only had very good gigs and I believe it comes from the more communication up front the better.


He was talking about pics of you
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:40 PM   #7
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OP....
Have you contacted the Attorney General of the State where 'CG' is located and filed a complaint?


Have you contacted the EEOC and filed a complaint?

Have you informed the CG in writing why you will NOT provide picture and that you are declining their request?

Have you........????
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Old 01-13-2019, 02:54 AM   #8
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Work Camping Employment Discrimination

Quote:
Originally Posted by BTFT View Post
I have "Work Camped" for the last 4 years.....
.....in my research for workcamping jobs I continually run in to employers who ask for a personal photo......

There is only one reason to ask for a personal photo and that is for purposes of discrimination.......

Yet I see it on almost every workcamping job board no matter where it is posted..
In almost 7 years of workamping or volunteering we have never, rpt never- been asked for a photo pre-hire.

I am curious, BTFT. What is your objective here? In the four years you have been experiencing multiple occurrences of this illegal practice, have you been regularly filing complaints with the appropriate authorities? Have you continued to workamp without taking action? Why raise such an alarm in the forum? There is no enforcement authority here.

Just curious.....
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:14 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by LJowdy View Post
Well technically work camping is illegal if you don't claim the barter exchange so, not only is the campground doing an illegal act by asking for a photo but the work camper is also committing an illegal act if work camping pays for their camp site and they don't claim the barter dollars.

"Because "barter dollars, (the fair market value of the goods and services you received) are taxed as if they are cash, you can owe income tax, self-employment tax, employment tax, or even excise tax on your bartering income -- even if you don't actually receive a penny in cash."

You may NOT want to complain to higher sources as they "IRS" may come after you if you didn't pay taxes on the barter dollars.

This is a complete misconception of the law. Workcamping is most definitely not illegal. Neither is accepting goods and or services and or salary or a combination of those in kind for labor.



As long as that combination or simply Goods (such as your site, elec etc) can reasonably be shown to equal the prevailing minimum wage in the state in question. This is why most places that hire workcampers advertise pretty short hours.


They certainly should deduct federal and state taxes unless you are on a 1099. That would be a hard sell if you were working in a campground or rv park.


But that is the employers responsibility.


You certainly should claim the value of the goods you received on your taxes. But the reality is this. Generally the amount you earn will not exceed and red flag for the IRS and since it is generally not more than minimum wage even if you did claim it as a retired person it is unlikely to push you out of the EZ Form.
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:53 AM   #10
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Allow me to address some of the responses that have been posted:


About discrimination and why we should care about this: I have hired hundreds of people in my career. In my own businesses and in corporations I have been. I have always had a strict rule;


I dont care what color you are, who you sleep with, who you are married to, what your religion is, what gender you are...the only thing I care about is your qualifications and how you do the job. Period.


Why bother about the photo? Simple. It is there for purposes of discrimination and that is the only reason for it. Now if you send one with a resume they can overtly or covertly discriminate before your qualifications even get READ.


Without the photo all they have is your resume. They are making a decision to interview based on the fact that you meet the qualifications for the job. Yes they can discriminate at the interview but that puts them in a very difficult legal position. One that is easy to track for state and federal authorities.


In regards why I brought this up: Simply to alert folks that this photo request/demand is in violation of law and raise awareness about the issue.


Someone wrote about never having seen this requirement before: That is good. But keep in mind it is generally in the last sentence of an advertisement and you would have to read many ads (as I have done) to know. I see at least one or more ads that require photos every time I look online.



As for question of have I reported this. No I have not so far. I did contact one large RV Park in Florida and I have been in contact with the national association of RV Parks and Campgrounds. And I have not yet reported to the federal or state authorities. For one thing I have no real standing as I will not reply to an ad that request a photo. I could file a general complaint but perhaps you've noticed the government is shut down at the moment. I may file a complaint but I think there are better ways to get the message across at this point in time.



By the tone and question of one or two posts it appears there are those that think discrimination in employment is OK. My personal view is that discrimination is NEVER OK.


Now it is also important to realize that no reputable media outlet would accept an advertisement that did not meet EEOC rules. For instance. No newspaper in this country would allow an ad asking for a photo (at least knowingly) But here on the web in similar forums where these ads are normally seen many seem to be looking the other way or are just ignorant of the law.
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Old 01-13-2019, 09:56 AM   #11
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Tell that to the IRS. I know someone who got fanged by the IRS because he didn't report his work camping stint. Ultimately he prevailed but it took 3 or 4 months and making a deal with IRS
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:01 AM   #12
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Send them a PHOTO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:42 AM   #13
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Again your point is valid , but like itís said , you can discriminate based on a persons name .
What about tattoos ? Some places donít allow tattoos , some feel thatís discrimination
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:57 AM   #14
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"As a former business owner and CEO of public companies and one who has hired literally hundreds of people I have considerable experience in hiring and HR/EEOC rules and regulations. NO reputable company would ask for a personal photo with an application."

So you hired them all without a face to face interview.
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