Campgrounds full

[oatmeal]

Originally Posted by Duoglide1

We just completed almost two months of northern AZ and the Grand Circle in UT before arriving in Colorado. I’ve never seen so many rental units on the road. Maybe because we were close to Vegas? Not sure if it’s that bad elsewhere but in this area they were everywhere.

I'm there now and I agree.

I first encountered massive numbers of rented RVs in the Banff/Lake Louise area, where there were CanaDreams as far as the eye could see.

Then I came to Zion/North Rim/Bryce during the high season, and it's giving Banff/Lake Louise a run for its money in rental RVs.

Originally Posted by cwk

How can you tell if it is a rental unit?

The easiest to spot are the ones that have Cruise America on them. Or in the southwest, El Monte RV Rentals or Road Bear Rentals.

Some other companies have more discreet lettering, but just the big dogs will give you an idea of just how many rentals are out there.

Originally Posted by Sweetbriar

The salad days of six to ten years ago when there were more sites then travelers was nice while it lasted.

Man oh man I miss those days. I can really tell a difference.

[AudiDudi]

I read about a year ago that there were 18 registered RVs for every 1 campsite.

Selling 500k+ RVs per year is going to really put a strain on finding premium space.

[TJFogelberg]

Storage space will get harder to find too with all these units rolling off the assembly line.
Not a good time to be homeless.

[kf6ybl]

An interesting post. We have been full time for just under 1 year (after many years as vacation RV'ers). Getting into the campground we want hasn't been too much of a problem, so far. We can book 120 days out with our TT membership, and we try not to make any moves on weekends. We also plan most of our activities during the week, since the campgrounds fill up on weekends. Weekends for us are used for laundry, cleaning, and hanging out.

There has been a trend of younger working age folks getting RV's and hitting the road. I think they are watching Youtube, seeing the "Nomads" promoting how wonderful it is. They glamorize "urban camping" and boondocking. I'm amazed at how many rigs I see at Walmarts, Lowes, Homedepot, etc... And lately, as a result I'm seeing many of them putting up No Overnight Parking signs.

Maybe some of this will take care of itself, as the realities of full time RV living start to kick in. It can be wonderful, but also frustrating, and just as expensive as having a house, not to mention marginal Internet access. Time will tell!

[Dan McMartin]

Originally Posted by kf6ybl

There has been a trend of younger working age folks getting RV's and hitting the road. I think they are watching Youtube, seeing the "Nomads" promoting how wonderful it is. They glamorize "urban camping" and boondocking. I'm amazed at how many rigs I see at Walmarts, Lowes, Homedepot, etc... And lately, as a result I'm seeing many of them putting up No Overnight Parking signs.

It's not always the business but the cities and counties. Sometimes it's legitimate concerns about people living in their cars or vans for days or weeks at a time out of parking lots. There is a hygiene concerns with a bunch of car/van dwellers with not restroom facilities on board, not to mention customer safety and satisfaction.

In many other cases, it's protectionism. Hotels, RV parks, etc. don't want the competition so they pressure the powers that be to ban camping regardless of the rig folks are camped in. They mistakenly think RVers will pull into the nearest RV park if they can't stay at WalMart. Chances are, they'll just go to the next RV friendly town and buy groceries there. It's easier to get a law passed than it is to be more competitive, offer better amenities and make your RV park worth what you're charging per night.

Too bad we don't have someone to lobby on our behalf, explain we're not going to trash the place, pee by the garden center or stay longer than a day or two. Or that we usually spend money, because we have it, on groceries, dining, movies, etc.

Harvest Hosts does a good job of getting us access to wineries and farms. A similar advocate to secure access at malls, shopping centers, vacant lots, etc. while pushing back against overnight stay bans would be great and I'd pay for the service.

[/soapbox off]

[Barbaraok]

Escapees, Good Sam, FMCA have been advocating this for yrs.

[Dan McMartin]

Originally Posted by Barbaraok

Escapees, Good Sam, FMCA have been advocating this for yrs.

They have but it seems to be a losing battle. I see more towns banning overnight stays and more retailers banning overnight parking than I see new opportunities opening up. Maybe that's just perception but I don't think so. But that's the way of things. It's all fun and games until the word gets out and places are inundated with overnighters.

[kf6ybl]

Originally Posted by Dan McMartin

It's not always the business but the cities and counties. Sometimes it's legitimate concerns about people living in their cars or vans for days or weeks at a time out of parking lots. There is a hygiene concerns with a bunch of car/van dwellers with not restroom facilities on board, not to mention customer safety and satisfaction.

In many other cases, it's protectionism. Hotels, RV parks, etc. don't want the competition so they pressure the powers that be to ban camping regardless of the rig folks are camped in. They mistakenly think RVers will pull into the nearest RV park if they can't stay at WalMart. Chances are, they'll just go to the next RV friendly town and buy groceries there. It's easier to get a law passed than it is to be more competitive, offer better amenities and make your RV park worth what you're charging per night.

Too bad we don't have someone to lobby on our behalf, explain we're not going to trash the place, pee by the garden center or stay longer than a day or two. Or that we usually spend money, because we have it, on groceries, dining, movies, etc.

Harvest Hosts does a good job of getting us access to wineries and farms. A similar advocate to secure access at malls, shopping centers, vacant lots, etc. while pushing back against overnight stay bans would be great and I'd pay for the service.

[/soapbox off]

I agree with many of your points. And I see that you are one of the Youtubers that I have seen online. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the videos, some are quite helpful. But, there is the other side that promotes this lifestyle, and as I've been fulltime for just about a year now, have met quite a few of these younger working age folks who have gotten themselves an RV because of this. They had no prior RV experience, and in one case, no camping experience. To me, they were extremely uninformed and ill-prepared for this lifestyle.

And now, there is going to be a "Nomad" movie later this year. Several popular Youtubers are involved. I have personally met one of the couples, and have had communications with a couple of others. Again, very nice people and I appreciate what they do. But - I have mixed feelings about this movie and the impact it will have.

[Povo]

We are in Central Oregon and have some favorite places within a few hours from home. It is definitely getting harder and harder to reserve. We couldn't get into the park we like for Memorial Day this year even though we tried about five months in advance. (It's a fairly small park and we go for about a week - can't tell you where or I'd have to kill you ) So I decided to call the day after Memorial Day for next year. There were only two spaces left as everyone was making reservations for the following year on their way out this year. I did find out if you phone in they will take reservations up to three years in advance so I now have the next three years booked.

Starting to look for more remote parks. Fortunately between Oregon, Northern CA, Washington and Idaho there is a lot to explore.

[Dan McMartin]

Originally Posted by kf6ybl

I agree with many of your points. And I see that you are one of the Youtubers that I have seen online. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the videos, some are quite helpful. But, there is the other side that promotes this lifestyle, and as I've been fulltime for just about a year now, have met quite a few of these younger working age folks who have gotten themselves an RV because of this. They had no prior RV experience, and in one case, no camping experience. To me, they were extremely uninformed and ill-prepared for this lifestyle.

And now, there is going to be a "Nomad" movie later this year. Several popular Youtubers are involved. I have personally met one of the couples, and have had communications with a couple of others. Again, very nice people and I appreciate what they do. But - I have mixed feelings about this movie and the impact it will have.

Not to hijack the post but we agree with you. There are a lot of happy glad vanners and full timers talking up the lifestyle without discussing the potential downsides and the sacrifices. Don't get me wrong, we love full timing but it's not all roses and rainbows.

Same with the movie. I liken it to "A River Runs Through It." It romanticized fly fishing and made it look easy. Suddenly everyone and their brother was out on the water with pricey new equipment and very little in the way of knowledge or manners mucking up the place. I'm afraid the nomad movie will have the same affect unless it's a more balanced view of the lifestyle than I think it will be.

I don't mind the travel related stuff...everyone travels...or channels that offer a realistic view of RVing, the ups and the downs. It's the stuff that makes full timing appear to be a permanent vacation that bothers me. As you said, it causes people to jump in without the full picture. They're unprepared and often unaware of the simplest etiquette. It's not bad to promote something but when you make it look easy and nothing but good times that's not really helping anyone.

[Barbaraok]

Let’s not forget that a lot of RV parks, especially near mid to large cities are full of people who live there year round because housing is out of sight in that area. Seattle comes to mind. Very few parks, most old and cramped, and decent parks now have year long waiting lists. And no new parks.

[AKIQPilot]

We just spent 16 days on the road between the Grand Canyon, Zion, Bryce and then back to our storage unit in Vegas. I agree with almost every post in this thread.

We booked 4 months in advance and even that was almost not enough.

An incredible number of foreigners in our National Parks. I didn't meet even one who wasn't excited to be here and in awe of the splendor. All super nice and very curious about life in a 40' RV.

An incredible number of rental units. From Cruise America to El Monte RV to the flowery painted vans almost 50% of the RV's we saw this last 3 weeks were rentals.

You have to book early and be flexible if you plan to be in a decent RV park this time of year.

One exception however. We rode the shuttle buses in Zion, Bryce and the Grand Canyon. I don't think we ever waited more than 10 minutes for a shuttle.

[oatmeal]

Originally Posted by Dan McMartin

Too bad we don't have someone to lobby on our behalf, explain we're not going to trash the place, pee by the garden center or stay longer than a day or two.

A day or two? Maybe that's part of the problem.

[oatmeal]

Originally Posted by Dan McMartin

It's not bad to promote something but when you make it look easy and nothing but good times that's not really helping anyone.

I think your first mistake is thinking that the promotion is to "help" people. It's not. It's to make money.

It's a concept that's so easy to forget. I'm sure the vast majority of people think Facebook's customers are the people who have Facebook pages, and they're wrong. Facebook's customers are its advertisers.

Same with youtube and other money-driven websites: They are there to make money. They may do it by providing "information," but if they wouldn't do it for free, then it doesn't exist just to help people.

And I do think it's bad to "promote" fulltiming. Back in the day, people had to want to do it pretty bad in order to accomplish it because even the idea was hardly known among the general population, and the nuts and bolts were out there but you had to work to get them. So the pool of potential fulltimers was self-selected to a great extent, and didn't have a lot of rash actors because you had to work pretty hard to even be in the pool in the first place, never mind actually start fulltiming.

Escapees is the only entity I can think of that was making money off the concept back then, and I suspect it was (and still is) mainly with their mail service (which I''ll point out is an actual service).

But nowadays, there's money to be made with youtube videos and the like, and when you're producing content for consumption, you have to give the audience what it wants. That's why the "realistic" ones have to tread carefully--too much reality can turn people off with a quickness, and turning people off costs them money.

Personally, I couldn't care less if somebody jumps in without the full picture because if you're that stupid, you get what you deserve. The problem is that in the process, they muck it up for everybody else.

And I wonder how long it will be before they muck it up for the very people who made money off them in the first place. What's tolerable in small numbers can become intolerable in bigger numbers, and there's not going to be grandfather clauses for the early ones. In fact, instead of grandfathering them, they should be the first to go because they're the ones who caused the explosion with their money-driven promotion.