Campgrounds full

[kf6ybl]

Originally Posted by Dan McMartin

Not to hijack the post but we agree with you. There are a lot of happy glad vanners and full timers talking up the lifestyle without discussing the potential downsides and the sacrifices. Don't get me wrong, we love full timing but it's not all roses and rainbows.

Same with the movie. I liken it to "A River Runs Through It." It romanticized fly fishing and made it look easy. Suddenly everyone and their brother was out on the water with pricey new equipment and very little in the way of knowledge or manners mucking up the place. I'm afraid the nomad movie will have the same affect unless it's a more balanced view of the lifestyle than I think it will be.

I don't mind the travel related stuff...everyone travels...or channels that offer a realistic view of RVing, the ups and the downs. It's the stuff that makes full timing appear to be a permanent vacation that bothers me. As you said, it causes people to jump in without the full picture. They're unprepared and often unaware of the simplest etiquette. It's not bad to promote something but when you make it look easy and nothing but good times that's not really helping anyone.

I don't think this is a hijack, just a continuation of the discussion regarding campground being full and some of the possible reasons why. I appreciate your comments and candor! And also we are in agreement, I started watching Youtube for RV repair related videos, and soon discovered travel videos from folks making the trek to Alaska. I enjoyed some of the realistic points of view on what to expect. But as I continued to watch I became more and more aware of the "Nomads" glamorizing urban/stealth camping which I completely disagree with.

[Dan McMartin]

Originally Posted by kf6ybl

I don't think this is a hijack, just a continuation of the discussion regarding campground being full and some of the possible reasons why. I appreciate your comments and candor! And also we are in agreement, I started watching Youtube for RV repair related videos, and soon discovered travel videos from folks making the trek to Alaska. I enjoyed some of the realistic points of view on what to expect. But as I continued to watch I became more and more aware of the "Nomads" glamorizing urban/stealth camping which I completely disagree with.

I see it among regular full timers as well. Many of them aren't retired, just like the nomads you speak of. They don't stealth camp...much anyway...but they do give a kittens and unicorns spin to the lifestyle. Not much negative stuff but a lot of stuff about freedom and a carefree lifestyle.

Maybe it's because I'm retired and these kind of "off the grid" money making opportunities didn't exist when I was working for the man. I can't honestly say the 25 year old me wouldn't have loved to get a van or a class B, make videos, write code or sell my stuff on Etsy from the road instead of staring at the walls of a cubicle for 25 years.

I guess I can see why so many younger nomads are so high on the lifestyle. I'm retired no matter where I live but they dropped out of the rat race and maybe living in a van is as awesome as they make it sound considering the alternative. But I do agree that some of their behaviors are the reason so many traditional RVers are being shut out of potential overnight spots.

[kf6ybl]

I think this is an important topic, and that's why I'm posting here again. As some of you may already know, there is a "Nomad" movie being produced and may be released later this year. They are called Epic Nomad TV, and have a website.

One of the posts on the site has to do with Boondocking vs RV Parks. Here's the comment that I made in response:

Very interesting points of view. My wife (and 3 little dogs) have been full time for 1 year (vacation RV'ers for years). Although we can boondock, we usually don't. My experience with boondocking has been mostly negative. No rules has it problems, such as noisy neighbors blasting music at all hours of the night. And if it's not music, it's loud noisy construction grade open frame generators. And, people being people, leaving a mess.

The result of this behavior is more and more "free" areas being closed. This includes many previous free overnight spots such as Walmart. These closures are being documented on both Facebook groups and online forums.

That's one of the reasons I have mixed feelings about this movie/project. Just like YouTube, it glamorizes the "Nomad" lifestyle (including things like urban camping, which I completely disagree with). There seems to be a huge influx of working age people that are trying to adopt this lifestyle without any idea of what they are getting into. They have no real concept of how much it can cost, and no camping/campground etiquette.

You have a much greater Social Media reach than I do, and I hope you use this to reach out and discuss the downside, the everyday mundane side, and the responsibilities we have as RV'ers. It's not always about wonderful views and carefree living. We are being watched, and are not always doing much to improve the RV'er image.

End of rant, good luck with your movie/project.

Right or wrong, that's what I think. I'll do my part by observing campground rules and picking up after myself and my dogs. Hopefully this situation will start to sort itself out and get better rather than worse. We'll see!

[1bigmess]

Your boondocking experiences might have left a bad taste in your mouth, but there are also lots of people that do quiet and under the radar work to talk to the troublemakers, clean up the litter, and do little things to improve the experience for everyone.

Public land is public land, and when I'm enjoying our public owned areas, I do these things. I'm an ex-cop, so I'm not afraid to approach most people alone, and for most things, all it takes is a kind word or request and many problems get taken care of.

Personally, there aren't enough free or very low cost campgrounds for my taste, and that is a whole other political discussion that I will not entertain in this forum, but I'll be damned if I'm not gonna do something to leave for the next folks or my family a place that somehow is a little nicer than I found it.

These things come and go in waves. This wave might not have broken yet. It might get worse, and then it might not get better, as it's harder to get rid of laws, ordinances, and policies than it is to enact them. We shall see.

[Dan McMartin]

Originally Posted by 1bigmess

These things come and go in waves. This wave might not have broken yet. It might get worse, and then it might not get better, as it's harder to get rid of laws, ordinances, and policies than it is to enact them. We shall see.

Setting a good example, discussing proper etiquette and manners tactfully, talking about it on forums, YouTube and Facebook is how you do it. Laws and regulation never work. You have to educate people and stop tolerating poor behavior. Nobody wants to get involved. They just want to complain and let politicians take care of it. It's called public land for a reason. It's not owned by the government. It's owned by the people and if we abdicate our stewardship to others, we'll lose our land and our access.


We preach leaving thing better than you left them. We pick up trash when we're out and about. We say something when we see others breaking the rules (bigger infractions, not ticky-tack little things, we're not those people). If we don't do it, who will? Usually, no one.

[twogypsies]

Originally Posted by kf6ybl

One of the posts on the site has to do with Boondocking vs RV Parks. Here's the comment that I made in response:

Very interesting points of view. My wife (and 3 little dogs) have been full time for 1 year (vacation RV'ers for years). Although we can boondock, we usually don't. My experience with boondocking has been mostly negative. No rules has it problems, such as noisy neighbors blasting music at all hours of the night. And if it's not music, it's loud noisy construction grade open frame generators. And, people being people, leaving a mess.

Honestly, we have boondocked or dry camped 90% of our 16 years of full-timing and have never encountered anything negative about it. We never had noisy neighbors or loud generators. We aren't the type with a need to park closely near someone else. There is plenty of open space on public lands. Some folks have a need to be near people supposedly for safety reasons. We're the opposite. We seek out seclusion & never had an issue with doing so. Since we don't park near people we don't see any of the 'messes' you speak about. If we would, we'd clean it up. Also, WalMart parking is not boondocking.

[JEEPOHOLIC]

Originally Posted by Mr_D

The two "campgrounds" close to me are full of permanent "campers" and have been for some time.

we are one of those permanent campers, also known as full-timers that hog up all the campsites from all of the weekenders, your problem of not being able to get a spot is felt by us as well, when we pull into a town looking for a full-time spot and all those who got there before us are hogging up all the good spots, darn them. But where should they go so WE can a good spot?

[Dan McMartin]

Originally Posted by JEEPOHOLIC

we are one of those permanent campers, also known as full-timers that hog up all the campsites from all of the weekenders, your problem of not being able to get a spot is felt by us as well, when we pull into a town looking for a full-time spot and all those who got there before us are hogging up all the good spots, darn them. But where should they go so WE can a good spot?

I think he meant permanent residents of RV parks...not full timers. They are different. Permanent residents take up spots all of us desire but they never leave. I get RV parks need to take up the slack to keep the doors open but the economy over the last ten years has forced a lot more folks into "trailer park" living.

But it's not permanent residents, full timers, weekend campers, the fact new parks aren't being built or that thousands of new RVer's join our ranks every month. It's all that stuff. One or two of those isn't a big deal but we're dealing with all of that at the same time.

And it's still not that hard to get a spot. Make reservations during the summer, holidays and/or at popular locations. Plan ahead a little. Travel places most people don't go. Hit up popular places in the off season. Do pretty much what full time RVers have been doing for decades.

IMHO, this issue is a bit overblown. Yeah, there are more RVers and no new places to go. Yeah it takes a bit of planning sometimes. But we haven't had any issues so far. We've never been without a place to park at night and even plan B, C & D most of the time just in case. Folks can sit around and lament it's not 2009 (or 1999, 1989 or 1979) anymore and the campgrounds aren't all but empty or they can go out and enjoy this lifestyle for what it is today. Adapt, improvise and overcome.

[Searching_Ut]

Getting good spots in national forest sites, national parks, and the touristy type areas is indeed getting difficult. Most of the national forest spots we like have become reservation only over the years, and the good areas tend to book up in the first couple hours after they open on the websites. We haven't been camping yet this year due to health issues, finally venturing out later this month. We ended up going with about our 20th choice of destinations for late July and August due to not trying to book until late June. We have several boondocking areas we'll be in that we've still be able to hit though.


Along the lines of boondocking, I've followed the land use issues around me closely over the years, and boondocking is becoming more and more controversial. I know of several groups that are out photographing boondockers right now to document the damage and destruction they're doing so they can build their case for when they figure it will fall on sympathetic ears. Unfortunately, there are enough bad apples out there that they are able document the mess/damage so they can make a point. Having been an avid explorer of the outdoors my whole life, I tend to find the crowds now troubling. I can remember when you could pretty much have a whole mountain to yourself in places like the Nevada Ruby mountains, or Utahs Henry or Abajo mountains. Now even those areas tend to be crowded.


My guess is that the days of dispersed camping are numbered, maybe 20 more years at most. Hard to say how the commercial campground thing will go. All depends I would suppose on whether there is money to be made.

[computerguy]

Originally Posted by Dan McMartin

I think he meant permanent residents of RV parks...not full timers. They are different. Permanent residents take up spots all of us desire but they never leave. I get RV parks need to take up the slack to keep the doors open but the economy over the last ten years has forced a lot more folks into "trailer park" living.

But it's not permanent residents, full timers, weekend campers, the fact new parks aren't being built or that thousands of new RVer's join our ranks every month. It's all that stuff. One or two of those isn't a big deal but we're dealing with all of that at the same time.

And it's still not that hard to get a spot. Make reservations during the summer, holidays and/or at popular locations. Plan ahead a little. Travel places most people don't go. Hit up popular places in the off season. Do pretty much what full time RVers have been doing for decades.

IMHO, this issue is a bit overblown. Yeah, there are more RVers and no new places to go. Yeah it takes a bit of planning sometimes. But we haven't had any issues so far. We've never been without a place to park at night and even plan B, C & D most of the time just in case. Folks can sit around and lament it's not 2009 (or 1999, 1989 or 1979) anymore and the campgrounds aren't all but empty or they can go out and enjoy this lifestyle for what it is today. Adapt, improvise and overcome.

Great minds think alike
Well said!
A little planning and one can overcome any full campground issue.
"Poor planning on your part does NOT constitute an emergency on my part"
But we are in the "I want what I want and I want in NOW!" generation

[consolenut]

Originally Posted by Mr_D

You can rent them fully wrapped with advertising or, for a higher cost, without any advertising other than a license frame and maybe a small sticker.

the foreigners...germans etc. realized cheaper to drive and live in the rental rv. as oppose to rental car and hotels. they can do more stay longer. the rental rv has dual purpose.