CONSEQUENCES OF STATE DRIVERS LICENSES AS NATIONAL ID

[Tincup]

It seems to me that the solution to this problem is kinda simple. When you re-new your license, instead of using the three letters "PMB" before your box number, use the three letters "APT". Problem solved

I'm a fulltimer and whenever I run into a situation where the person I'm dealing with doesn't understand what PMB means or won't accept a PMB number, I make it my APT and they're happy. No big deal.

Remember folks, we're dealing with the State Departments of Motor Vehicles, and the Federal Department of Scaring the H*** out of Stupid People here, we're not applying for a Top Secret (Code Word) security clearance.

What is that Latin phrase. . ."Nil Carborundum Illigitum". . .or something like that anyway.

Have a great day folks !!

[RVrs R US]

Here is an update consisting of my E-mail to the newly formed RV Owners Advisory Council (RVOAC) and their reply:

"On May 25, 2007, at 12:21 PM, RVrsRUS@aol.com wrote:

Gentlemen,

Just read Sue Bray's "On the Road" article in the May issue of Highways magazine about the formation of the RVOAC. Great idea! We understand that one area you are delving into is "Legislative Priorities".

Having been a Good Sam members for 10 years, (as long as we've been full time RVing), we are extremely concerned about this:
Real ID Act of 2005 : Driver's License Summary set for implementation in January 2010.

Under DL/ID Document Standards§202(b), you will see this item: "(6), person's address of legal residence" as one of the requirements to get the new Drivers License ID card.

While we totally support our governments intent on keeping us safe from terrorism, we wonder how this requirement is going to be able to be reconciled with the fact that most full time RVers have sold their homes and use a mail forwarder in their domicile state as their legal address. In other words, their "legal address" is no longer where they live.
We understand that there are upwards of 1 million of us living in our "houses on wheels" enjoying this lifestyle.

Do you think there might be a chance to educate our legislators on this issue?

Tania and Dave George
RVrsRUS@AOL.Com"

And their response:

"Thanks for the nice note. Your assessment of the Real ID Act is right on target -- and we believe there is cause for concern in how each State will implement the provisions of the new Act. The Council was alerted to this issue by a letter from a member who raised the same concerns. We immediately investigated the status and found that we had only a few days remaining to publish comments on behalf of full time RVer members in the Federal Register. However we were able to put together what we believe was a persuasive statement about the unique needs of full time RVers, and it was submitted by Sue Bray on behalf of the Good Sam Club and its one million plus members.


As you may know, each State will determine what documentation will suffice to establish "legal residence". We believe the published position of the Good Sam Club can be used to help educate state legislators on this issue. And I'm sure the Club will follow up as needed with those States that may not fully understand this issue. There are a number of hurdles left before the Act can be implemented. As you know some States have already "opted out" of the program, though we believe the consequences to the citizens of those States could be so troublesome that they will have to reconsider.


The bottom line is that as of this moment we've done all we can do to lay the groundwork for a positive outcome, and we believe we're tracking this in a constructive way on behalf of our members. That's of course consistent with the essential purposes for which the new Council was created.


Thanks for writing!


Tom Gonser, Chair"

For those of you who might not recognize the name, Tom Gonser is the founder of rversonline.org one of the original RV bulletin boards on the Internet.

Hopefully, with the attention that is being paid to this, our full time RV Lifestyle will not be adversly effected. Tania and I wrote Tom back and asked how we could help. I'll pass that along as soon as we hear back.

Dave

[RVrs R US]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tincup:
It seems to me that the solution to this problem is kinda simple. When you re-new your license, instead of using the three letters "PMB" before your box number, use the three letters "APT". Problem solved

I'm a fulltimer and whenever I run into a situation where the person I'm dealing with doesn't understand what PMB means or won't accept a PMB number, I make it my APT and they're happy. No big deal.

Remember folks, we're dealing with the State Departments of Motor Vehicles, and the Federal Department of Scaring the H*** out of Stupid People here, we're not applying for a Top Secret (Code Word) security clearance.

What is that Latin phrase. . ."Nil Carborundum Illigitum". . .or something like that anyway.

Have a great day folks !! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Paul and Margaret,

Thanks for you suggestion. As a little history, when Tania and I applied for our Delaware drivers license renewal in person in 2004, our license carried the address of our mail forwarder which happens to be a Mail Boxes, Etc and had no reference to our PMB number.

The first thing the DMV counter people did were to look up the address on our licenses in a reverse phone directory and when they determined it belonged to a mail forwarder, the processing on both of our renewals came to a screeching halt.

To get the matter moving again, we suggested that the manager of the DMV branch communicate with their state headquarters and get a ruling on the issue.

They received approval to continue the renewal process as long as the address on our new licenses includes the line <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> PMB 535 MAIL BOXES ETC </div></BLOCKQUOTE> which had never appeared before.

My guess is that many states will be using the reverse directory as a standard checking process when doing renewals. We also received a veiled threat from one of the counter persons that our renewals "might not be so easy next time".

Our licenses are good through mid 2009 so we're trying to get a jump on the process.

Tania and Dave George

[Wallaby Dan]

Seems like different states, different rules! We have Arizona tags and drivers license and for Tweet, a state Id, as she doesn't drive. We have been using Ohio as our mail forwarding [FMCA] State with tha AZ. license. That should keep them really confused for a few hours at least. The only requirement at the time was a address that we could get a ticket or summons or renewals. AZ. issues for Long periods of time. Mine is up for renewal in 2021. I have had this license since 1998. I know that most of you will have to renew before that but my question is will we have to regroup the license and tags to a different address?? I have to renew the tags on the truck and coach next month. I am hoping for no surprises!

[Wallaby Dan]

An update to this thread, I was able to renew my tags on the coach and truck today and Tweet got her new state Id with the mail forwarding address on it. When I was talking to the person at the DMV she said they had heard of the New law but they were not having to reinforce the law so far and they had not heard anything from the state capital on the subject.I am not the only one she knows about that fulltimes out of Arizona.
Well, Thats the poop for now, If I find out anything more, I will post it, Capt Dan
Sorry, I forgot to say I had two year tags on both vehicles. Capt.

[countryside drivin]

We Live in Utah, and had to get a first time drivers licence for our 16 year old last Sept, our local DMV required that she have a bill with her full name and address on it, since this was impossible as she was just sixteen, they had to go to who ever was in charge and sign off on it, so they can make exceptions, don't know if this would help any of us!

[RVrs R US]

An update on the Real ID Act from today: 17 STATES STUCK IN LICENSE SHOWDOWN

Dave

[Barbaraok]

We're going to Canada in the summer, so we got our Passports in December. Isn't it amazing that they have no trouble with us having an address from a mail forwarder for getting a passport. Since Escapees has already fought the legal battle in Texas to make our addresses valid, and are currently monitoring the situation, hopefully we will never have to worry about this. We also renewed our driver's licenses this year, so we are good to go for another 5 years. Interestingly, in Texas the DMV just deleted the # sign before the box number, so the license address reads just like any other small country road with both a name and a number!

I hope enough states balk at this unfunded mandate and that the new administration will clean out the Department of Looney tunes and get some real common sense procedures in place.

Barb

[Stanbnv]

When I "moved" back to Washington in 06, the DMV wouldn't take my PO Box for an address, but were perfectly OK in using the RV park where we were staying as one. Got a letter from the county auditor about voting last year, they had checked and I wasn't there at the time, ( we were in Mexico for 5 months), but a simple phonecall to her explaining that we were fulltimers, and were only renting at the RV park for a couple of months a year was sufficent. I suppose that growing up in a less populated county, and going to highschool with several county officials didn't hurt too much either.

[alan1]

I just returned from South Dakota and as of 1/1/2010 I must show a utility bill or something showing I actually live there. A PMB number will not work any more, also they know the addresses that are used to forward mail, I may need to rent an Apt. for a month and get elect. hooked up and get a bill or something. I don't know how that 16 year old will get his first license and examples go on and on.

[Jody & Jeff]

I read about this on another forum today and in South Dakota the company that handles all the fulltimers there- someone write the name & then I'll remember - said that this will NOT all come to fruition and not to worry.

Dang it was a long post too on that forum but I forget which one.

But my example to the question was if my mom who is 65 lives with me and she needs to renew her drivers license - does she take my bill with my name on it - how would that work then?

So, things still need to be worked out on this law that is supposed to go into effect 1/1/2010.

Jo

[Clay L]

The following is info I just received from Paul at Alternative Resources - our mail forwarding service . It concerns renewing a drivers license in SD .



" SNIP However, for full timers your will have to stay ONE night in a campground or motel and show a receipt from them to renew or get a SD drivers license. You will still put your address on the license as your address here with us.
I made many phone calls to our state legislators and the State of SD to make sure they came up with something that would allow you to get the drivers license that meets the REAL ID ACT and is accept by the Federal Government. You will still be able to get or renew your license anywhere in the state and put your mail forwarding address on your license.
I just called Jane Schrank who is the assistant to Cindy Gerber who is the head of the Department of Public Safety. Director of Driver Licensing. Jane is going to contact the licensing offices to make sure they are giving out the correct information to you."

[alan1]

That is great if it works that way. When we got back, I set an e-mail to the Director of Drivers Licensing and I have not received a reply yet.

[K-Star]

I just got my SD License Wednesday (5/6/09) and was not required to show any proof of address. I filled out the application, showed my passport, took the eye test and turned in my old DL.

Now who knows what will happen in 5 years when renewal time comes up.