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Old 12-13-2019, 08:46 PM   #85
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The usual advice for couples is for the one with the higher social security benefit to wait until 70 and the other one to claim benefits immediately. When one dies, the survivor keeps the higher benefit. That increases the chances you will come out ahead by delaying.

That 8% increase in checks is not an 8% "return". If you would get $20,000 in checks at age 62 you will get $21,600 at age 63. But that is still $18400 less than the $40,000 you would have received if you had collected $20,000 both years. It will take a while to break even and there is no guarantee you will live that long.

That is why social security pays higher benefits to people who delay collecting. The group that delays will all receive fewer checks and the survivors in that group split the savings from people who die before they break even.

I think cash flow is going to be your biggest issue. Given that, I would not start paying down debt. In fact, I would investigate how best to increase your borrowing capacity. You have real estate that is providing homes to relatives. Selling it out from under them in is going to be very difficult. So making sure you can borrow against your equity in that real estate can give you a financial cushion to fall back on. Lenders are usually going to look at whether you have enough income to make the payments. You will need to have a realistic picture of your borrowing capacity since you already have a loan on your RV.

You have a complicated financial situation. You probably need some professional advice. I would hire an adviser who works on a flat fee for service basis. Anyone working on percentage has a built in conflict of interest.


One other thing. Be realistic about life expectancy as a couple. The odds are only 1/4 that both of you will live to your life expectancy. And there is a 3 in 4 chance that at least one of you will live longer, i.e. a 1 in 4 chance that both of you will die early. What that means is that the time frame for doing things as a couple may be shorter than you think and your money may have to last longer than you think.
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Old 12-14-2019, 06:13 PM   #86
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Surprised, I loved my job and worked till 67 and a half. No debt, RV paid cash. Lots better taking SS at 70. If I don’t count bonus’s and what I put into 401k and SS and Medicare out of my pay I’m making more now than when I worked between pensions and SS
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Old 12-14-2019, 11:31 PM   #87
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I began taking SS at age 62. I'd paid the max amount for about 40 years and didn't want to risk donating those $$ to my profligate uncle. But it's a crapshoot.

One bar chart shows a SS recipient taking SS at 62 would have received a payout of approximately $210,600 by age 80 and only $196,800 at 80 had he held off to age 70. Croak at or before 80 and you lost money. OTOH, if you live past 80 you're a winner. So it's a crapshoot unless you weight in the possibility of dying before you file. Then Uncle wins, which has been, of course, the government's plan ever since the inception of the rip off social program. Remember, when the age to apply was set at 65, folks didn't live that long.
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Old 12-15-2019, 05:34 AM   #88
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SS is not a rip off program. Talk to any FA and they will ALL explain why. There maybe things you don’t like or understand but that doesn’t make it a rip off. It plays a important part of a retirement plan.
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Old 12-15-2019, 05:40 AM   #89
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Great post. Really learned a lot. I’m 57 and dream of retiring. I’m in real estate and self directed investing. No pension as I’ve been self employed.

Really don’t know when to clock out but the common theme here seems to be debt free first. Most of my debt is on rental income so that’s a bit tricky but again, just wanted to thank the OP for the post and the contributors.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:50 AM   #90
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PART of the Plan

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SS is not a rip off program. Talk to any FA and they will ALL explain why. There maybe things you don’t like or understand but that doesn’t make it a rip off. It plays a important part of a retirement plan.
Exactly! SS is only part of the plan, not the entire plan. Other parts being personal savings/investments, and pensions/401(k)/etc - if you are lucky enough to work for a company with those. But a fairly large %-age of people want to believe that SS will take care of them in their old age, as the only source of income. For you "youngsters" out there - live debt-free, sock away 15% of your income, and live like a king when you retire at 62.
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:56 AM   #91
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I put this together a little while ago to help get an idea of what SS income would look like in retirement. I didn’t go year to year but kept it at 5 year increments. As others have said, it’s a crap shoot, but if know when you’ll die, you can make the best decision on when to take SS.
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Old 12-15-2019, 07:08 AM   #92
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Without social security we couldn't have bought an RV. We would have had to save tha money "just in case" we lived to 100. In that sense, we are all winners with social security. We don't need to save enough to live to 100, when only a tiny fraction of us actually will. The only losers are the finance industry folks that don't get their 2% in fees every year. But we have 401(k) plans for that.


Delaying social security is a gamble. We only hear from the winners in that gamble because the losers are all dead. But the odds are pretty even because the program is designed that way. The group that delays collects the same amount as the group that doesn't. The money is just divided up differently.
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Old 12-15-2019, 07:57 AM   #93
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If you end up deciding to roll your TSP funds to an IRA, leave a little bit of money in the TSP account so that it isn't closed out. Then, you can roll IRA funds back into it if you change your mind later. I verified with the TSP that you can actually do this.

The management fees on the TSP are only about .03%, which amounts to just $300 a year on a $1 million balance. A lot of mutual funds and "fee" type money managers charge many multiples of that amount, so be careful.

Vanguard, Schwab, and Fidelity are three good low cost no-load fund families that can, for example, mimic almost exactly what the TSP funds achieve at very low fees not much different than the TSP's fees, not that you would actually want to do that, but the big exception is the TSP's G Fund, which is a great risk free very good interest rate (compared to other options out there) fund to be able to take advantage of under certain situations and it's only available to Federal employees and retirees. Hopefully, your financial advisor will be able to explain that part more to you.

Anyway, hope this helps a bit with one part of what you're dealing with. I know you have a lot to digest with all of this, and it can get overwhelming for most folks.
Thank you. I don't plan on moving my money out of TSP unless I find several compelling reasons. I'll have to double check that info about leaving the account open. Believe it or not I'm more knowledgeable about TSP than most of my coworkers and I've never heard that. I have 20 % in G for now.
I will look for a fiduciary. I know it's too late to save more. I just need tax help for the most part. I generally don't want to make a 10k or more tax mistake.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:03 AM   #94
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….This is an RV forum, not a financial,advisor site
I like to think this is a site about all things that have to do with RV'ing. This includes the dream of retiring and FT'ing for some.
Don't trust and verify is what anyone reading this thread should do.

Did you know that if you leave a little money in TSP you can later transfer money back into it? I didn't and it may not be true. I have a new question for a financial advisor now thanks to this thread.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:11 AM   #95
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Your situation is similar to ours. My advice: rethink financial councelor. Sell your rentals or get serious. It's a BUSINESS. biggerpockets.com has great info if you do want to get serious. Renting to relatives is probably not the best thing to do but understand if you are trying to help them out. Your income looks good but have a monthly cushion of at least $1K month. Stuff happens and you should be saving to cover stuff. Good luck!
Thank you. My inlaws are in one of the houses and we actually lowered their rent to just enough to cover taxes, insurance. They are 80 and we've decided to help them as much as we can.
The other two houses have family but we are considering all options.
All of the houses are taken well care of by the family members renting.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:16 AM   #96
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A quote attributed to Steve Forbes:

Attachment 269371

Here's a piece of free advice (worth exactly half of what you're paying for it):

Be very careful with the free advice.

Take care,
Stu
I think the quote would also caution us on the "paid advice" if I'm not mistaken.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:23 AM   #97
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E. Try to get debt-free ASAP is always my advice in retirement planning. It's very liberating emotionally. It will also give you some wiggle room in case things don't go according to plan. This may require working a little longer than you want. I'd be hesitant to pay off debt with pre-tax retirement funds, however. Your advisor can explain that further.

F. The hardest part of retirement is to shift one's mindset from a saver to a spender. Yes, you spent years building those assets, but rejoice in the fact you'll be able to enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Debt-free will go a long way to ensuring your happiness, and the transition from saving to spending. After the initial "panic" when we realized we had no job income (wife lost her job after 35 years with employer) , we took stock of our situation, hired a CFP and realized we were going to be ok.
One thing I have not seen mentioned is Long Term Care insurance (LTC). Consider it now, in your 50's. Yes, it's expensive, but it becomes more or less unaffordable the longer you wait.
We have no children, so for us it was a necessity. We bought our policies when we were 50 and 48, so far premiums have more or less stayed the same. (I'm 65, wife 63)
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:24 AM   #98
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Great post. Really learned a lot. I’m 57 and dream of retiring. I’m in real estate and self directed investing. No pension as I’ve been self employed.

Really don’t know when to clock out but the common theme here seems to be debt free first. Most of my debt is on rental income so that’s a bit tricky but again, just wanted to thank the OP for the post and the contributors.
We may very well be in a similar situation. My plan after the holidays is to find a fiduciary most likely. I feel very lucky to have a pension on top of my rental and investment funds.
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