Holes in our Plan?

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by Barbaraok

Have you considered a Foretravel?

Don't know why you are against towing 4-down. We've been doing that since we got our Subaru in 2004. 14 years of towing and not a problem, other than we have to change out tires/batteries a little earlier than if we didn't tow.

Dragging the toad through all those potholes. Rock damage or dirt. Cannot back up. With a trailer or a dolly you have the means to take the toad in for repair if it breaks. I just saw a video where the couple tried boondocking for the first time and their toad got damage by a rock. They were able to get it on the dolly and tow it to a repair shop at their next destination. Otherwise it would have been a nightmare for them.

With a dolly with a platform or an enclosed trailer, I can also bring: an ATV, or golf cart or dirt bike, Kayaks and bicycles. A floor jack and other tools (maybe even a compressor if the RV does not have one built in. Atlatl and Throwing axe/knife/shovel targets and equipment. Extra clothing or chairs, or firewood, or potted plants, or. . .

A flat towed toad can carry some of those things but not much. Also then you do not need to spend $2000 altering the vehicle for towing. I addition, you can have any kind of vehicle you want as a toad and are not limited to FWD towable vehicles.

Also with a trailer, you have a ready garage to protect the toad in bad weather/hail. Also you can have a garage sale! weather.

The only downside I see is where to put the dolly or trailer when parked, a little more time to hook up/unhook, cost, and possibly reduced MPG. I can deal with all of those issues.

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by CampDaven

I think I found a hole: time.
After almost 5 months of “discovery, discussion, pondering and tentative selection”, I suggest that a retirement so very far in the future, in view of the possible future RV technology advancements, that all decisions now may be premature.
I did all of this pondering in 18 months, and have been in F/T heaven for 7 years.
Happy Trails

thank you. I think everyone is different. In making a huge lifestyle choice I like to consider all options and obtain as much information as possible.

For example, when we decided to return to Michigan after 15 years in California. We took three years selecting a town to live in and finding the right house before we moved.

We may buy an RV within a few years and begin updating it while using it. We do not need the newest and best technology out there and we cannot afford the quality level we want unless the RV is ten or more years old no matter when we buy one. I do not see anything likely to come out that is substantially better than what they have now. Maybe electric drive, but that is at least ten years away and we would not be able to afford it and would go diesel anyway. Maybe some uber efficient generator - we can add that and still be cheaper. Plus we will have the bulletproof series 60 without DEF and without power and mpg robbing emissions junk (that will break and require repair). I fully expect 1000 or more watt solar to become the norm and way better batteries. that is why I am not looking for an RV that has solar already installed. That is something that will obviously be upgraded.


One thing that might change that would pique our interest is the floating RV/Boat concept. Those have been around for 20 plus years and have not taken off or become practical however. Probably not terribly likely in the next ten.

For the most part, I figure what is good enough for top luxury in 2006 is good enough for me in 2024, or whenever. I look at the New RVs and I see nothing that I want and cannot have or add to a 2006 (or 2004, 05, 07, 08). Instead I see a lot of things I do not want. Ever cheaper parts, ever more complex engines and suspensions that do not really add anything but complexity. More and more shiny things that add cost and maintenance but add not value to lifestyle. The big new thing that interests me is the steerable tag axle, and that is available on some 2006 models. I am not sure whether it makes enough difference to be an important item though. I would want to drive one and compare. Supposedly, you can make a U turn with them, but in how much space? Certainly not on a two lane road.

One thing that did change and more change might make some difference is slides. Through Early 2000s they mostly had one large slide and sometimes a small one or two on the other side. Now, 4-6 opposable slides seems to be the norm and they are nicer. They probably also jam a lot less than that giant slide they stopped using on the older ones.

No matter what we get, I expect we will be replacing the stove, mattress, and main shower. So, new advances in those items do not have any impact. For example, a feature I like in a lot of 2019 models is the removable induction stovetop that allows you to take it outside and plug in to cook stinky stuff outside the RV. However that is a basic affordable feature that is easily added to any RV as a relatively low cost.

a big change might be an alternative to the aqua-hot that is more efficient, faster, or lasts longer. that would have some appeal and is not something easily added. Still people live with aquahot now and do not say they are in hell and wish there was some other option. I am comfortable that we can live with aquahot in the future even if there is something much better available by then.

One risk is if diesel gets completely banned, or becomes unavailable. In that case, we would need to make some quick changes in our plans. However in that instance, diesel RVs would be so cheap, it might be worth the cost to re-power them with whatever replaces diesel (likely electric or fuel cells).

Now there is the off chance that someone will develop a from of instantaneous transportation. In that case, RVs may become useless. If I can wake up and step through a box out into a sunny Maine beach morning or wherever I want, who would want to drive there? We still might because we enjoy exploring along the way and do not know what we want to see until we see it. However if this highly unlikely development were to occur and RVs became pointless, it would not be the end of the world to scrap our plans

Many years ago, we spent about two plus years making plans to move to Charlseton SC. I took the bar exam, we studied the metro area until we found where we wanted and could afford to live, picked out a couple of likely houses that were for sale. I read everything I could find about Charleston and learned its entire (very dark) history. We explored the area, checked out the schools, made sure it would work for us. When we got ready to move and I began interviewing for jobs, a potential employer told me a "Yankee" would never find much work in my profession in Charleston (they offered me a job in Greenville, but I was not interested in Greenville). Another possible employer said the same thing. Not in "Charleston." I even told them I was from California, how could they call me a Yankee. They said if you are not form the south, you are a Yankee, period. So we scrapped those plans and moved on. It was not the end of the world. For a while, I knew more about Charleston than most people who live there. So it was still a worthwhile endeavor, although the cost of taking the bar review class and the bar exam was pretty much wasted. Still I do not regret having done the planning and working towards the goal that proved impractical. It was a fun journey.

Decades ago I also spent about a year learning about sailboats and looking for a boat to buy and live on when the boat where I rented a room sailed away. I learned all about them. I looked at dozens of boats. Twice I even hired a surveyor to inspect a boat I was considering. I planned out how to deal with all the exigencies like a better place to take a shower. I put my name on a waiting list for a live-aboard slip at the marina I liked best. Meanwhile I got married, a child(ren) was conceived, things changed and I scrapped the idea. However I never regretted learning about sailboats and sailboat ownership and living or looking at boats for sale. I did not even regret hiring the surveyor to tell me two of the boats I was looking at were simply too much work for one person (or even two).

Just the same, I am enjoying learning about RVs and the RV lifestyle. Getting excited over the possibilities and planning how we will do it. It is good for us to get rid of tons of excess stuff, and that alone will take ten years. So will fixing up/finishing the house, which is another thing we really should do anyway, either way, we are going to want to sell the house and downsize eventually. If I know pretty much exactly what we want in an RV now, I can more easily watch what comes out and know whether it is something we really care about or not. Otherwise, I would not know if it mattered to us and was worth the cost.


That is how I am. I enjoy intensely learning about things and dreaming. Other people do not. They prefer to jump in comparatively blindly and go. That is what I do for vacations/road-trips, but not for big life choices. For me the learning and anticipation is just as good as the doing. Funny thing to me, some people (elsewhere, not here) seem to get angry about my desire to plan ahead and to learn everything I can about RVs and RV living. "Why are you bothering people for information now? Just wait." Sorry I do not choose to wait. if it bothers someone to provide ideas or information years in advance, hopefully they will just not respond.

[Mr.Mark]

Coldjeans,

I think you are being rather dramatic on the four-down towing. We've towed four-down since 2007 with an '07 and '13 Honda CR-V's and now the '17 Lincoln MKX.

I think you are way over estimating the risk of damage. The only damage we received was on the first Honda, a rock hit the windshield. Otherwise, no problems with the other toads. No damage on the '13 Honda nor on the Lincoln (so far).

After the glass crack on the '07, I bought front masks for the both Honda's that covered the whole front including the windshield. On the Lincoln, I have a Roadmaster front guard that fits on the tow bar (I like it better than the covers).

The guys on the Prevost site who have towed with a trailer talk against it unless it's necessary. They say four-down is preferable. You have to make sure that the vehicle inside is secured along with everything else inside. Which is fine if that's what you need to take. Towing four-down is much easier if it's just the car. The ability of not being able to back-up is generally not an issue and in 11 yrs., I did have to disconnect 4 times (with the Honda's). There is a learning curve with newbies (I'm a slow learner ).

Safe travels,
Mark

[winniman]

Funny you say about being called a Yankee in the south. Im Canadian, and they called me a Yankee. I said, "Im not a Yankee, Im Canadian". They said, "You are a Canadian Yankee". Im sorry to see in this day and age, that this mentality still exists. Being from Canada, I guess we get so used to all this multiculturalism, that it seems strange to us. As far as four down towing, we have towed approx. 20000 miles in the last two winters with no damage at all.

[CampDaven]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

thank you. I think everyone is different. In making a huge lifestyle choice I like to consider all options and obtain as much information as possible.

Have fun. Too deep for a happy retired guy like me. By the time you F/T, I’ll have enjoyed every day without a ponder beyond where to not hurry to next.
BTW, have had no troubles with 3 4-down toads in 18 years and >300K miles. Still have the original hitch.

[Coldjensens]

Sorry I should have put damage last. That is the last of my concerns on the list. It was just first, because it had not occurred to me before and is a new concern, not the major concern. The major concerns are being able to use any car I want, and the added space for other things.

When I have trailered a car before, tying it down took about one minute. Maybe something more is needed for a longer trip?

[Hit_the_Rhod]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

Dragging the toad through all those potholes. Rock damage or dirt. Cannot back up. With a trailer or a dolly you have the means to take the toad in for repair if it breaks. I just saw a video where the couple tried boondocking for the first time and their toad got damage by a rock. They were able to get it on the dolly and tow it to a repair shop at their next destination. Otherwise it would have been a nightmare for them. We've been towing 4 wheels down for years and have YET to incur any damage from towing! But maybe we're just lucky! Yes, we've had to unhook and back up TWICE in the last 4 years . . just like we would have had to do with a tow dolly, except that the dolly would have added several feet to our total length! Either way, not the end of the world.

With a dolly with a platform or an enclosed trailer, I can also bring: an ATV, or golf cart or dirt bike, Kayaks and bicycles. A floor jack and other tools (maybe even a compressor if the RV does not have one built in. Atlatl and Throwing axe/knife/shovel targets and equipment. Extra clothing or chairs, or firewood, or potted plants, or. . .

That's just SOO funny! Now instead of a broken or damaged towed car, I picture a broken dolly, or better yet an enclosed TRAILER full off ALL SORTS of Goodies, abandoned on the side of the road while the TV goes for help on that broken TRAILER!

A flat towed toad can carry some of those things but not much. Also then you do not need to spend $2000 altering the vehicle for towing. Nope, just $4,000+ for the enclosed trailer! I addition, you can have any kind of vehicle you want as a toad and are not limited to FWD towable vehicles.

Also with a trailer, you have a ready garage to protect the toad in bad weather/hail. Also you can have a garage sale! weather.

The only downside I see is where to put the dolly or trailer when parked, a little more time to hook up/unhook, cost, and possibly reduced MPG. I can deal with all of those issues.

Coldjensens, just to recap, you've brought up some good points, but the bottom line is that ANY decisions we make can have potential pitfalls. We each have to do the research (and I really LIKE your attitude about learning about new things) and decide what level of risk we feel comfortable with. Then make our choices, and then live by our choices. That's all any of us can really do. . . .

[twogypsies]

We towed our Jeep for 8 years four-down, including a summer up in Alaska. No damage to the Jeep.

[CampDaven]

Originally Posted by twogypsies

We towed our Jeep for 8 years four-down, including a summer up in Alaska. No damage to the Jeep.

Cold,
This is true for me too! Except the Alaska bit.
This is one of those topics where you worry too much.
Wranglers are extremely tough, and easily repairable.

[Coldjensens]

We spent a full day in Cleburne Texac looking at RVs. This is way better than going to a show. Lots of place with huge variety of RVs. They pretty mush let you roam around freely, you can start them up and turn things on, operate whatever you want to.

We were able to reach some conclusions, at least tentatively.

We rezlized we could be OK even in a really old motorhome if the layout was good.

At the high end we realized we do not actually like Prevost. At least not the ones we saw. Everything is laminated rather than wood and laminated things do not holdup well. We also dod not love MEwell (too modern style, not cozy - cold) but we liked the Foretravel Motorhomes thy had there.

The winner of the day was a 2006 Monaco. Although it was not our preferred floorplan, it was otherwise the best use of space, roomy feeling, homey, quality, It had nice separation between the living area and kitchen, and the kitchen was a kitchen not a galley.

Newmar we found nice,but too expensive for not much better, and not as comfy warm feeling. Still in the consideration pile, but We liked the Monacos, HR and Beavers better.

Tiffin, was too cheap seeming and we took them off the list. Itasca as well.

Wnnebago has some really nice models. Surprisignly nice.

We learned some brands have cheap flimsey walls while others have nice solid walls that you can bang on, price range does not seem to determine this, just brand.

A lot of models have very little light int he bedroom, seemingly for no good reason.

Wife likes the mid-door better than a front door. This are pretty rate though it seems.

A lot of the motorhomes have what seem to be stupid table booths, that you cannot get into in any practical way and a tall person could not sit at at all. This was true in many of the higher end rigs, even Prevost and Newell.

Very few at any level had the nicer kind of toilets. Also very few had showers that I can stand up in.

Still considering 5th wheel, but only rear bedroom models, which are had to find. We really liked Grand Design, even better than the DRV units they had there.

We were allowed to look at some that had just been traded in. It is amazing the transformation the dealers are able to do. Many of them come in really filthy and broken. None of them on the lot are like that. Score one for dealers.

We hate having a stupid giant TV in the front between the driver and passenger. Most of them had that. Many had another TV for the lounge area just a few feet away. What is the point of having multiple TVs only a few feet apart?

Many - there is no openable window on the drivers side, other have openable windows and even screens.

some rigs are completely unusuable with the slides in. Others are pretty much fully usable.

We do not like kitchen islands.

More windows are better.

We really like the layout with a rear bathroom and closet. This seems to be the best layout.

The diesel drive engine is much louder than we expected. That was a surprise.

Many of the Motorhomes have the leveling controls right where I rest my elbow when driving. That may become annoying.

We did not understand why any motorhome would be set up to not allow the driver and passenger seats to swivel and become part of the living area.

they had to have signs telling people not to use the toilets in the motorhomes. Really? Are people that stupid and crass?

Newer (post 2006) models of many brands are taller and have higher ceilings. That makes an important difference for me. The height and length bothers my wife. She is concerned about driving something so big.

My preference for a Detroit Diesel Series 60 will have to take aback seat I think. They are just not out there except for Prevost and we did not see any Prevost that we liked. Certainly there must be some out there, But they are awfully expensive anyway. I will still prefer that engine, but I am not sure we will find one.

We consistently liked the older (2004-2008) motorhomes much better than newer ones. There was a noticable higher quality in the older ones and more of a traditional look/feel. The newer ones try to hard to be modern looking and use too much plastic and laminate and other hard surfaces.

Showers, only one we saw was built at floor level. Most are sitting up four plus inches off the floor. This eliminates headroom, and means i have to cruch to take a shower. Many to most showers were stupiidly short, many,the door did not come up high enough to deflect water at the top. I think we will probably have to have a custom shower built in.

My wife really liked the ones with little bathtubs, I thought it was stupid. Have to reconsider that. She is moving away form her insistence on bath and a half. She likes the added kitchen space. She also likes the fake fireplaces which I thought were stupid. Some things to compromise over but thy are small things.

We had a really fun day. Looking at motorhomes is a good time. However looking at new ones is not as great. They are too much the same. Way more variety when you are looking at different years. Also they seem to have begun copying each other so there are fewer differences.in newer ones. There are some things we will not be able to add to an older MH that are really neat on the newer ones, bt nothing that is a must have.

We decided to go with all electric. We do not want the fire risk of propane or CNG

Entegra offers a neat feature I really like which is a removable induciton cooktop that you can take outside and use there for stinky cooking. None of the ones we saw had it though.

We also decided we will flat tow a jeep initiially, and then figure things out towing wise from there.

[cwk]

Nice write-up. Thanks for taking the time to share.

[twogypsies]

You're certainly doing a lot of looking. However, you stated you'll retire in 12-15 years. That will be in 2030. The 2006 Monaco that you really like will be 24 years old at that time. Why not look at new ones now which will be 12-15 years old when you retire?

[CampDaven]

Originally Posted by twogypsies

You're certainly doing a lot of looking. However, you stated you'll retire in 12-15 years. That will be in 2030. The 2006 Monaco that you really like will be 24 years old at that time. Why not look at new ones now which will be 12-15 years old when you retire?

YES!
ColdJensens, you are more than a decade ahead of your plan.
Cool your jets until 2 years ahead of your retirement launch, set aside all “made” decisions, as technology will mulch your ideas/plans between now and then.
You have far to go before you sleep!

[okmunky]

If you really want to see a huge selection of RVs, new and used, I’d suggest you come to Quartzsite, AZ in January. Dealers from many states set up temporary sales lots all over town.

This little town goes from 3,000 residents in August to 500,000+ in January. The HUGE RV show tent is open for 9 days but the RV dealers are here all month and longer.

The Quartzsite Sports, Vacation & RV Show :: Home

I would suggest that you research all electric RVs a bit more. You will be committing yourself to staying in RV parks instead of being able to park in the beauty and quiet of National Forests and on BLM land unless you add a boatload of solar to your coach. Staying in RV parks means you need reservations and spontaneity is non existent. Most RV parks are mere parking lots with little space between coaches.

Propane systems are safe if well maintained. I heat my coach with an Empire vent free gas heater that is almost silent. I have a CO detector and a propane detector as safeguards. The noisy, wasteful RV furnace will leave the coach soon to make room for more storage.

Of course if you do actually wait 12-15 years you may have more options for powering your RV life. I predict it will be sooner, tho.