Age mixing for Lithium batteries

[lajuene]

Any opinions on Life blue vs Battle Born?

[757driver]

Originally Posted by lajuene

Any opinions on Life blue vs Battle Born?

I didn’t want 8+ of the battleborn batteries to get the AH I wanted (only 100AH size). With LifeBlue they have the 3 sizes, 100/200/300 AH.

Also with the LifeBlue you can monitor the batteries with Bluetooth.

[lajuene]

Yeah, the Bluetooth idea seems good. Was wondering if the battery quality was different. Good point about the multiple battery bank reason.

[757driver]

Originally Posted by lajuene

Yeah, the Bluetooth idea seems good. Was wondering if the battery quality was different. Good point about the multiple battery bank reason.

Don’t know about the difference in quality one to the other but LifeBlue is made by Topband New Energy Company which has been in the lithium battery business since 1996.

[SV K]

The only real answer is going to come from the manufacturer.

Having said that I did mix, but only separated by a few months. I ordered a 1000amps worth, then once installed I realized I had room for 200 amps more.

I personally wouldn't worry about "age" mixing as they have a terrific shelf life. Pretty sure my first pack from Balqon was made of cells that were several years old and they are still functioning great after 4 years of heavy usage.

Mixing based on "usage" might raise some questions, but I personally wouldn't hesitate as long the original cells were not abused.

Any questions your welcome to PM me.

[Coral]

This is the 150Ah version I was told that 3 and running parallel would give me the amps needs if my inverter pulled its max draw which would be over 230 amps. These batteries have a max load of 100 amps before BMS kicks in. I originally wanted to run just two 200 Ah version in parallel but was told that I could exceed rating with my Magnum MS 2812. Something you should be aware of when system planning.

200AH RV Boat Lithium Battery with Bluetooth Monitor

[Coral]

Originally Posted by lajuene

Any opinions on Life blue vs Battle Born?

LifeBlue has better warranty and bluetooth battery monitoring, read about it on there website. Bluetooth battery monitoring runs on your smartphone, you can download the app and check it out. Tells you everything you want to know about your batteries, a very cool feature.
This app allows you to connect to all of your LiFeBlue Lithium Ion batteries.

This application is only for LiFeBlue batteries.
FEATURES
* No need for a separate battery monitor…save hundreds of dollars!
* Wirelessly connect to each battery from your phone.
* Access each BMS independently with multiple batteries.
* Track Cycle Life on each battery.
* Displays State Of Charge (SOC) percentage with circle graphic.
* Display voltage, charging or discharging current, and temperature.
* Easy to read gauges.
* Battery Events displayed in easy to understand text.
* Works up to 15 feet away.
* Displays each battery signal level.
* Uses Bluetooth BLE 4.0 or later
from Google Play Store

Battle Born are 100 Ah and lower cost, but IMO you get more bang for the buck with LifeBlue.

Most people will not spend the money for either battery, requires deep pockets.

[lakewoodpaul]

Originally Posted by lajuene

I'm wondering if the rules of matching batteries for age apply to lithium. In other words, can you get 2 lithiums this year then add 2 more in 6 months or next year. We had six agm's and an accident happen (floor fell thu on Cassier highway) ruining two of them. Insurance replaced the bad ones but the remaining four were 3 years old. The bank has never worked as good as it did before. Going lithium sometime over the coming year. Would be nice to build bank slowly to spread out cost.

Sorry off subject but Im interested in your story re: batteries falling out on the Cassier. Weve been on that road a few times. Maybe you could elaborate in a different forum?

[lajuene]

To answer your question about the battery story on the cassiar hwy go to my wife's blog at this address.
https://walkaboutwithwheels.blogspot...appen.html?m=1

[lajuene]

So I disconnected all 6 batteries 2 at a time and ran a load test on each. 1 tested "Weak" so I only reconnected the remaining 4 AGM's. Ran on battery power and solar and an hour after sunset I was down to 12V so I turned the power back on here in the campground.

So then I disconnected the 2 oldest AGM's so I am now on 2 6V AGM's (300AH each for total of 300AH)

Ran on solar and an hour after sunset was down to 12V again.

Going to Equalize them again (following lifeline instructions).

If they still won't last past a short time after sunset them I will need to test the batteries again, maybe at a battery store somewhere.

Don has been a lot of help. Thanks Don. Trying to check them without hauling them to a facility if I can help it. Almost a hundred pounds each!!

Any ideas?

[Reed Cundiff]

We are coming up on four years using Manzanita Micro packaged CALB batteries (9.1 kW-hrs at 22 V nominal ) on 5th wheel and two years on 19’ Roadtrek (4.5 kW-hr). They have worked well. Son has been in solar for 40 years with 26 years as alternative energy contractor and he suggests not having them iof different age.

A major consideration is to place battery suite where it will not suffer environmental extremes of below 32 F and above about 110 F. Fifth wheel batteries are in front bay and we have never gone above 90 F. We have been down to 15F and this was taken care of by a 59 W tungsten lamp. A better solution was taken by either the Wynns or Wheelingit when the fabricator placed the batteries in a closet. Technomadia had their batteries in an unventilated compartment and Cris is quite candid about degeneration.

Our son installed a blower in our Roadtrek that blows cabin air into the battery compartment (under the bed) when temperature in compartment drops below 40 F.
Reed and Elaine

[Smitty77]

Originally Posted by lajuene

So I disconnected all 6 batteries 2 at a time and ran a load test on each. 1 tested "Weak" so I only reconnected the remaining 4 AGM's. Ran on battery power and solar and an hour after sunset I was down to 12V so I turned the power back on here in the campground.

So then I disconnected the 2 oldest AGM's so I am now on 2 6V AGM's (300AH each for total of 300AH)

Ran on solar and an hour after sunset was down to 12V again.

Going to Equalize them again (following lifeline instructions).

If they still won't last past a short time after sunset them I will need to test the batteries again, maybe at a battery store somewhere.

Don has been a lot of help. Thanks Don. Trying to check them without hauling them to a facility if I can help it. Almost a hundred pounds each!!

Any ideas?

Have been following this thread. Some questions for you, please:

-What specific Lifelines do you have?
-What is the current banks age?
-Are you aware of any specific abuse these batteries have endured?

Looking forward:

-What do you want, power wise, out of a new House Bank?

TIA for more info,
Smitty

[lajuene]

Originally Posted by Smitty77

Have been following this thread. Some questions for you, please:

-What specific Lifelines do you have?
-What is the current banks age?
-Are you aware of any specific abuse these batteries have endured?

Looking forward:

-What do you want, power wise, out of a new House Bank?

TIA for more info,
Smitty

Hi Smitty. Have read a lot of your posts. Thanks for those.

-What specific Lifelines do you have?
I have 6 of the the GPL-6CT 300AH 6V

-What is the current banks age? That's the problem. 4 are 5.3 years old and 2 are 2.3 years old. I hated that but I had a floor failure that damaged 2 of them and the insurance co. replaced them. Wish now I had just learned to live with 4. I know the age difference is bad.

-Are you aware of any specific abuse these batteries have endured?
I have always used 50% SOC as an absolute bottom and usually 80% SOC. With the exception of 1 time running down to the inverter cutoff, I think 11.? and then a few weeks ago when my problems started to show and we got down to a reading on the Magnum remote of 10.?. This happened twice over the last few weeks. For the VAST majority of the last year we have been plugged in always at Moms house or a campground. Nov. 8, 2017 was our first dry camping we've had since the spring of 2017. From what I've read from Don (757driver) I may have not been getting fully charged all the time. We have a setting of MULTI on the FINAL CHARGE setting and we have solar so that should be ok but I have turned the solar off for periods of time for no particular reason when we were plugged in. Not sure if that sulfated them. I'm leaving it on FLOAT for now.

Looking forward:

-What do you want, power wise, out of a new House Bank?
For our new lithiums (soon I hope) I'm thinking 600AH which is 480AH usable and that's close to our AGM bank when it was new which was 900AH, 450AH usable. That was always plenty until a couple years ago after the 2 damaged batts were replaced.

So that's about it. Tomorrow I'm planning an testing my current batts one at a time. I did load test and they all passed except one (WEAK reading). But I just read that load testing does not give a true condition. You can pass a load test and still have a bad one so I'm going to run an electric clock and a light bulb off each battery until it shuts off the small inverter I'll be using so I can get a real time to dead time frame.

I am definitely getting the LifeBlues. The time frame for the upgrade will depend on if I can find at least 2 of my AGM's to be ok for now. I will be dry camping next month for a couple days with a drive in between. Heating is only concern I have then. We can do fine otherwise.

Any other ideas?

Thanks,
Eric

[Smitty77]

Thanks for the update on info Eric. I should have 'clicked' that you'd replaced the 2 batteries after the Cassiar Event (And I do now remember going to the blog to look, slept a few times in between, so...).

Living on the top of the batteries bank SOC should have yielded an extension of life on these, as the Life Cycles were not being consumed on regular 50% SOC usage regimen. (Or at least I like to think this, as that is what we do with our X's 4 L16's, also usually in the ~75% SOC range after an overnight an AM coffee brew!).

And I've learned to read carefully when 757Driver is posting, he's one of the group on this forum that I look to for battery related items. If you had not been getting the bank back to 100% SOC on a regular basis, yep they could have walked down. Though of course it's always better to not let any battery get too low, you're number of low voltage occurrences do not seem that high to me. (Though I'll ask for clarification (May have missed it if you have said it already.) if they remained at low voltage for more then just a few days during these times? I believe it looks like you got them back up to full charge relatively soon? I ask, because it's my understanding that sitting in a discharged level can accelerate sulfating.)

Our ~5 years of age house bank is serviced via Magnum MS2812, until a few months ago on the default Lifeline AGM setting. (Now updated to reflect their slightly higher Float rate.). I've also adjusted the Efficiency Rating setting just a tad, due to the aging batteries. Our 1200W of Solar feed thru the MidNite Classic 150 controller with WhzBngJr added. I'm using the MidNite Ending Amp setting to control he shut down of Solar charge to the house bank. Lifeline Tech Support had lots of fun with me on this! The Tech that was helping me said 'Here is what I think I would set it at.' But then he said he'd like to get an opinion of one of the other Tech's. Asked if he could call me back. About an hour later, had both of them on the phone. Interesting to here them talking, and we all altered the Ending Amps setting just a tad from the first Tech's recommendation. (I specifically said I wanted to be sure the batteries were 'topped off' to full charge via the Solar. So we went a tad higher...)

The equalization/conditioning certainly can't hurt a battery that is on it's way South. I'd think after you do this next cycle of conditioning, a call to Lifeline Tech support to ask for input also would not hurt. At about 90 pounds (Off of memory, as I'd had these same batteries on my short list before going with he L16's.), not real easy to remove and lug around. But maybe Lifeline can recommend a place to take them with more advanced equipment for conditioning and testing? (Never hurts to ask!!)

As far as your first posts questions. I agree that asking the specific battery manufacture you're considering if mixing different aged Lithiums is OK or not. I also would ask Larry (BatteryPro) via a PM his opinion. (Or heck, call him at work at Starlight and ask him. Understand the rational of it would be nice to the wallet to break this out over say two years of purchase. Some year one, and the balance year two...

If the answer is it's best to do it all at once, and you can not recover your Lifeline's, and you want to wait two years to save up for the Lithium bank - consider some SAM's club simple GC2 Wet Cells to bridge you for two years. Save your receipt, keep a log of usage, and then toss them on Craigslists with the picture of the receipt and duty usage to recoup some of those funds...

Again, will keep following this thread. Fingers crossed that your Lifeline's can live to last another year for you!!

Best to you, and all,
Smitty