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Old 11-27-2018, 06:33 PM   #15
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My upload didn't come thru.

Here are 2 screenshots of charging parameters of your batteries.

Looks like your going to need a big charger if you wire all 11 batteries in one bank.

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Old 11-28-2018, 05:57 AM   #16
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Tboat, thanks for taking the time to look up the recommended charging amps...not something I’d thought about. I do have 250 charging amps using 120V but only 50-60 from solar. Easy enough to add your normal boat 2 battery switch other than the larger lugs. I agree these are more starting batteries so it will be interesting how they work out as storage batteries. Thanks again.
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:01 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterbagoal View Post
AFAIK,
AGMs are better in cold environments, whether deployed or stored. They resist freezing better than gel or flooded.
Their rate of self discharge is probably the lowest of all of the more common lead acid choices, so they store longer with less harm when not in use.
Since the electrolyte is embedded in the glass mats between the plates they are virtually spill proof, and can be used in physical orientations other than sitting upright.
They can usually handle repeated deeper discharge rates than their flooded peers.
They can accept charge at a faster rate than the other common options, so recover from deep discharges more quickly.
They are physically maintenance free. Most hydrogen gas is reabsorbed in the mat inside the battery awaiting recharge.
They are more convenient, for most of the prior points.
Yes, they are typically more expensive, but I don't think convenience is the only advantage over most of the other gel or flooded options.

They have thickier lead plates and the gel enables them to with stand vibration plates breaking of much better.
With proper charging and discharges less than 65% you may get 5,000 cycles from the batteries.
Faster recharging reduces generator run time if you do not have solar.
With Magnum's 125 amps and 40 solar amps I can see 165 amps going back in to the Lifeline AGMs.
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Old 12-06-2018, 10:11 AM   #18
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Thank you to all for your time and expertise.

I decided to replace my 3 Group 27 Marine batteries with 3 Group 31 12v flooded lead acid batteries.

I ordered a Pro-Fill Battery Watering System (manufactured by Flow Rite) to maintain these new batteries. This will (hopefully) solve the problem of obstructed access to the battery cell caps.

Flow Rite does not sell retail. I contacted several local golf cart service centers, and they were all aware of the Flow Rite products. However, they have to special order the watering kit from Flow Rite, and they both had problems getting support from Flow-Rite. I was able to find a Flow-Rite MP2010 Qwik-Fill 1 Battery Kit for $39 and a Flow-Rite MP2000 Qwik-Fill 2 Battery Kit for $59 on Amazon Prime. The installation also requires the Flow-Rite RV2020 Pro-Fill/Qwik Fill Hand Pump for $28, also on Amazon Prime.

I remain interested in AGMs, but not until my 13-year old Dimensions Converter goes out. I'm looking at the
  • Magnum Energy MSH3012M MSH-Series 3000W Converter for $1750
  • Magnum Energy ME Series Remote Control for $189
  • Magnum Energy ME & MS Series Battery Monitor Kit (ME-BMK) for $145
  • Magnum Energy Automatic Gen Start Module, Network Battery (ME-AGS-N) for $215 (maybe)
I think I have the skills to install this new system if the old Dimensions fails in an awkward location. This is expensive, but if my old converter fails, then I'm "only" looking at the incremental cost of upgrading a new converter.

When the time comes to replace my flooded lead acid batteries, the next step would be switching to AGMs . I'd like to add an additional 2 to 4 Group 31 AGMs to my existing battery tray with 3 Group 31s.

Assuming that we continue to be full-time RVers, then the final step might be addition of solar panels.
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Old 12-06-2018, 12:41 PM   #19
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Magnum is the only brand we have had in the larger capacity and it has performed very well for the past three years. I think you are making a good choice.
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Old 12-06-2018, 07:18 PM   #20
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AGM have less internal resistance. They provide current more efficiently and accept current more efficiently. AGM manufacturers state do not equalize.

Liquid FLA's due to higher internal resistance accept charge slower, C20 is most commonly stated. As everyone knows you have to restrict charging current in bulk with any FLA especially flooded due to higher internal resistance. If you allow flooded to charge higher you are entering into equalize territory aka boiling and gassing heat etc.

AGM commonly states C5 allowing must faster charge. Adjusting charger to allow higher charging current for AGM results in less generator run time saving money.

Make sure you have temperature compensated charging no matter which you choose.

Charging 400AH's at C20 400/20 = 20 amps max.

Charging 400AH's at C5 400/5 = 80 amps max.
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:21 AM   #21
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Dual battery bank?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drczap View Post
...
I remain interested in AGMs, but not until my 13-year old Dimensions Converter goes out. I'm looking at the
  • Magnum Energy MSH3012M MSH-Series 3000W Converter for $1750
  • Magnum Energy ME Series Remote Control for $189
  • Magnum Energy ME & MS Series Battery Monitor Kit (ME-BMK) for $145
  • Magnum Energy Automatic Gen Start Module, Network Battery (ME-AGS-N) for $215 (maybe)
I think I have the skills to install this new system if the old Dimensions fails in an awkward location. This is expensive, but if my old converter fails, then I'm "only" looking at the incremental cost of upgrading a new converter.

When the time comes to replace my flooded lead acid batteries, the next step would be switching to AGMs . I'd like to add an additional 2 to 4 Group 31 AGMs to my existing battery tray with 3 Group 31s. ...
I did correspond with Magnum technical services, who confirmed that the above components are compatible. Also recommended is 4/0 gauge wiring with an inline class T fuse.

I asked if I would still need the transfer switch (which switches ac input between the genset and shore power). The answer is yes because the Magnum converter has only one input for 120VAC power.

Since I would add additional Group 31 AGM batteries in a location separated from the existing battery tray, I asked if the two sets of batteries should be wired in parallel or as separate inputs into the Magnum Converter. Tech support recommended wiring the two battery banks as two separate inputs, although no explanation was offered. The tech did recommend adding some kind of spit charger device so that the DP engine alternator can charge both banks of house batteries plus the bank of engine batteries. This might require two Battery Monitor Kits at $145 each.

This opens up a new world of split charger technologies. The old fashion diodes get the job done, but at a cost of charging efficiencies. I'll enter that world when the time comes.

I'm still risking failure of my old Dimension converter in an inconvenient location. Without the ability to keep my house batteries charged, most of my interior lights will not work for very long. Also, my Norcold refrigerator will not work for long either because its circuitry requires 12VDC even when running on propane. I could keep house batteries charged with our genset. If I have shore power, then I could keep house batteries going with my portable automotive battery charger, assuming it can supply 2 amp-hours. Still, this could be a mess to resolve if I just wait for my old converter to fail.

By the way, the Magnum technical service department has been very prompt in replying to my questions.
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Old 12-08-2018, 08:53 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unyalli View Post
AGM have less internal resistance. They provide current more efficiently and accept current more efficiently. AGM manufacturers state do not equalize.

Liquid FLA's due to higher internal resistance accept charge slower, C20 is most commonly stated. As everyone knows you have to restrict charging current in bulk with any FLA especially flooded due to higher internal resistance. If you allow flooded to charge higher you are entering into equalize territory aka boiling and gassing heat etc.

AGM commonly states C5 allowing must faster charge. Adjusting charger to allow higher charging current for AGM results in less generator run time saving money.

Make sure you have temperature compensated charging no matter which you choose.

Charging 400AH's at C20 400/20 = 20 amps max.

Charging 400AH's at C5 400/5 = 80 amps max.
400 AH @ C/20 = 80 amps. Not sure about your other calculation.
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:55 PM   #23
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I would also add in favor of AGM effects of high voltages on RV systems. My previous RV had one of those damned tablet style (instead of toggle switches) control centers. I hated that thing. If I equalized it blew this things mind and I had to do a total power off reboot before it would function again. Every AGM I've studied does not want equalizing.


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Old 12-09-2018, 01:10 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by unyalli View Post
I would also add in favor of AGM effects of high voltages on RV systems. My previous RV had one of those damned tablet style (instead of toggle switches) control centers. I hated that thing. If I equalized it blew this things mind and I had to do a total power off reboot before it would function again. Every AGM I've studied does not want equalizing.


- Jeff
All but Lifeline Battery, although they call it conditioning. Same high voltages.
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Old 12-10-2018, 06:16 PM   #25
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Yes, lifeline does have an equalizing procedure. Only AGM battery I have heard of that does.
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Old 12-10-2018, 06:18 PM   #26
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Yes, lifeline does have an equalizing procedure. Only AGM battery I have heard of that does.
Deficiency in construction?


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Old 12-10-2018, 06:23 PM   #27
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The company told me it wasn't necessary generally but if a problem occurs it is one more thing to try.
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