Battery upgrade questions???

[Wundertaker]

My wife and I just bought our first Fifth Wheel in preparing for retirement in about 3 years. We'd like to go Full Time and are starting out with a 2013 Cedar Creek Silverback 33RE. We pick it up this coming week and we are planning on doing a "fair amount" of BOONDOCKING but will also stay in parks/campgrounds also. CURRENTLY the 5th Wheel has NO Generator and I'm planning on getting an appropriate Inverter Generator in the 3,000-4,000 watt range. My question here is on the Battery Situation...right now it has "one lowly and presumably DEAD 12 volt battery"!!! That's ok as I was planning on upgrading for BOONDOCKING anyway. My question is..."HOW MANY AND WHAT TYPE OF BATTERY SETUP SHOULD I GO FOR"??? I would like to have the ability to BOONDOCK for a few days at a time with the Generator for recharging the Battery Bank. I was thinking of going with 4 6volt Golf Cart Batteries and have them Professionally installed as "I AM NOT THE GUY FOR THAT"!!! Also, I don't know if there's an Inverter in the trailer or not so I may have to add that. I would want to be able to watch 1-2 TV's and maybe recharge a couple cell phones, run fans, water pump, and so on. We would be good at using our power wisely and have no desire to run everything all the time OR all at once! Could any of you have any input or suggestions as to where I might begin??? Thanx sooooo much!!!!!!!!

[vsheetz]

Much depends on how much room you have for batteries. Four 6v GC batteries is likely plenty good. Ensure you have a good multistage battery charger to best charge and take care of your batteries. Size your generator capacity so as to be able to operate air conditioning.

[drdarrin]

My DW and I bought our 5er 18 months or so ago. Our plans sounded pretty similar to yours. We too bought 2, 2000W inverter/generators that could be ganged together. We never use them and now only carry one for emergencies. Haven't had one yet.

I have installed two 260 watt solar panels, 4 six volt batteries and a 2KW inverter/charger and of course, charge controller etc. This system, satisfies all our electrical needs. I have to service the batteries monthly but other than that, it's pretty maintenance free, so far. Our total cost, since I installed it and sourced all the parts, was about $3000.

You may not know anything about electricity or the critical systems in your RV but you need to learn or have deep pockets and time to wait.

I'd definitely get the 4, 6V batteries.


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[Duoglide1]

4X6v for us. We dry camp frequently & it works well for us. Trojan T105 is a little higher than some but has always given us good service. Good luck.


2012 NuWay HitchHiker 363RSBDA, 2016 Ford F-350 Dually 6.7

[ByeTheWay]

Originally Posted by Wundertaker

CURRENTLY the 5th Wheel has NO Generator and I'm planning on getting an appropriate Inverter Generator in the 3,000-4,000 watt range. My question here is on the Battery Situation...right now it has "one lowly and presumably DEAD 12 volt battery"!!! That's ok as I was planning on upgrading for BOONDOCKING anyway. My question is..."HOW MANY AND WHAT TYPE OF BATTERY SETUP SHOULD I GO FOR"??? I would like to have the ability to BOONDOCK for a few days at a time with the Generator for recharging the Battery Bank. I was thinking of going with 4 6volt Golf Cart Batteries and have them Professionally installed as "I AM NOT THE GUY FOR THAT"!!!

We mostly Boondock too. I would use as many 6-volt batteries in pairs (series/parallel) as your battery compartment allows. Four is very common but I have 6, and some have more. I do not like to check the water level so I use AGMs. Your Generator should be able to run at least one AC unit. Many boondockers including myself use Solar and park where the AC is not needed.

[harryn]

That looks like a nice 5th wheel and it has a lot of storage.

Everyone is a little bit different on how they use power, where they park (temperature wise), etc.

If you go too frugal on power, you risk feeling like it is continuous basic camping with rationing rather than enjoying life with minimal worries. My experience is that my wife will do that about so long and then it all comes crashing down.

In most cases, you more or less want to put as many solar panels on the roof as will fit without shadowing, and as many batteries as you can afford. It is good to have a generator, but most people will want to reserve its use for when really needed.

6 volts are one way to go, rolls makes a modular battery that is put together with I think 2 volt pieces. The main advantage of using lower voltage pieces (2 or 6 volt) is that they can be lifted into the RV easier. Some people prefer using 8D size 12 volt batteries as it sometimes is just simple (but heavy)

The first few years of using a setup often results in doing something that causes total loss from damage to the house batteries. Consider to not put too much money into them until you have heavily used the trailer for at least a years, then buy better / more expensive batteries.

[mrgrayaz]

Check out Costco - I got my 4 GC2 (6V Golf Cart) batteries I think for around $75 each.
It was like $325 out the door, though there is a core charge if you aren't swapping out batteries. Everyone swears by the Trojans - but....I'm cheap and will take the cost savings.

I have the 4 GC2s...and no solar. Considering the cost of solar, I'm actually considering upgrading to another 4 batteries. Solar would be better ,but even with self install, I can't see a way to do it under $1000. Panels are down to about $1.15/w.

Agree with other people - you will need to learn how to do this stuff, or it will be endless trips to Camping world and big bucks.

I just installed our 1500watt inverter and transfer switch, trimetric, etc the other day, really not too bad. Lots of research, reading of diagrams, forum posts, cursing and beer, but its done .


FYI - the 4xGC2s will only get me about 2 days with "normal" usage, before I need a charge. Keep in mind they don't give you as much capacity as you'd expect, as you can only use 50%.

[harryn]

It might sound strange, but the biggest challenge in house batteries is usually not total capacity, it is how quickly you can charge (store power when it is available)

As an example, if your battery bank can store 4 KW-Hrs in 2 hours instead of 8 hours, then the generator might only need to run for 1/2 as long.

Some people deal with this by using a large bank of modest performing batteries.

Other people use more expensive batteries, but fewer of them to do the same effect.

High end AGMs will usually charge much faster than lower cost batteries, but will be 3 X more expensive than low end batteries (for the same capacity rating), example Lifeline AGM 8Ds or similar Rolls.

LiFe batteries will charge even faster and last more cycles, be lighter and smaller (by 50+%) - but - be 3X more expensive than high end AGMs.

A well regarded battery is a Trojan T-105, but a decent LiFe can store 5X the power in the same size and weight, especially under higher load conditions for about 15X the price.

Just like buying an RV, you can pick a range of solutions at various performance and price points, and there are a variety of suppliers.

[harryn]

Originally Posted by mrgrayaz

I have the 4 GC2s...and no solar. Considering the cost of solar, I'm actually considering upgrading to another 4 batteries. Solar would be better ,but even with self install, I can't see a way to do it under $1000. Panels are down to about $1.15/w.

FYI - the 4xGC2s will only get me about 2 days with "normal" usage, before I need a charge. Keep in mind they don't give you as much capacity as you'd expect, as you can only use 50%.

Your usage sounds pretty modest. I bought a pair of Ever Bright Solar 165 watt panels (12 volt style) for a similar price to what you note. 2 panels in parallel plus a $100 for a PWM midnight charge controller and some accessories - should be well under $500.

Monitoring is fun, but perhaps not a requirement for 2 panels. Either the batteries need charging or they don't.

I would think that would provide at least 500 watt - hours per day average, so perhaps one extra day between battery charges.

[Reed Cundiff]

We have LFP on both fifth wheel and Roadtrek. Advantages have been enumerated on this forum numerous times: effectively 1/3 to 1/4 weight for same amount of usable energy and extremely high charging rate to 100%.

Disadvantages are much higher cost and problems if charging below 32 F.

However, if you are spending X dollars for a boondocking rig, then the extra cost is not consequential.

Problem with low temperatures is taken care via:
Keeping battery suite in cabin, heating battery suite by 30W bulbs or 30 W heating strip, or utilizing a. blower to pass warm cabin air into battery storage area.

[Shadowcatche]

One thing not mentioned, a battery monitor to keep you above the 50% DOD magic number what ever you have.

[RolandRock]

The other thing not mentioned is the use of a pure sine- wave inverter. the other is figuring out your max current usage at one time and keeping that as 10% of your total amp hour battery rating. The thing with amp draw is, the higher your draw at once is to your total capacity, an additional penalty is added and the batteries will drain even faster. example: 2- TV's at 250W each will drain a 300AH battery bank by 2.8 times faster than a 600 AH battery bank not just 2x as you would expect.

[baphenatem]

Originally Posted by vsheetz

Much depends on how much room you have for batteries. Four 6v GC batteries is likely plenty good. Ensure you have a good multistage battery charger to best charge and take care of your batteries. Size your generator capacity so as to be able to operate air conditioning.

I agree, AND determine whether the space that you have for the batteries is easily accessible for watering and maintenance, and has adequate ventilation if you want to go with flooded batteries. You'll also want to look at where the batteries can be installed as a group, as opposed to spreading them out around the rig. Also keep in mind that whatever the stated AH capacity of your bank, in reality you only get half of that as usable capacity in order to have any longevity with them.

Another key factor is to determine just how much capacity you need, and the only way to really do that is via a battery monitor, such as a Trimetric. AM Solar has some sound advice on determining your system's sizing at System Size Pt. 1. Having a generator gets you some flexibility, but for serious boondocking it's not a great option

You could start out with the (cheapo) 4x6V golf cart battery option and then run some tests to determine whether they have enough storage capacity for your needs. This will give you an idea of what you'll really need when you get to actual retirement and at that time you can spend wisely on a system that is more tailored to your specific needs. At that point Lithium batteries should have dropped in price, and having spent time with watering and caring for traditional lead acid batteries you can make the call as to whether the monthly (or so) maintenance ritual is worth the lower initial cost. Then, if everything works, and you want to go with the low tech option, spend your dough on some high-quality Crown or Trojan wet cells.

[vsheetz]

We boondock quite a bit. Have two generators - big diesel in the coach, small gas portable. Large solar array. Whole house and point of use inverters. Currently six 6v wet batteries - want to add more capacity...