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Old 03-06-2010, 10:18 AM   #15
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Well, it's an equalization mode, not specifically desulfation but......

It more or less accomplishes the same thing.

Now, once you plug in that wizard, in my not very humble opinion, the PD-9100 series is as good as it gets.. you won't find a better one.. Period.
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Old 09-01-2010, 03:25 AM   #16
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For the sake of discussion here are the three types of chargers/converters used in TT, 5th and MH today.

Liner, was the first type, very bad capabilities for keeping the batteries charged if there was any kind of load along with a big charge load. Not used any longer in the RV industry.

Ferroresant Converters/Chargers – still used some, not much, very bad supply to electronics and not real great for charging batteries.

Electronic – Switch Mode Converters – this is the one most often used now in all RV’s. It has, depending on output the capability to charge the batteries in three modes. 1. Bulk Charging; 2. Absorption.
3. Float charging.

Some units have the capability to “equalize” the batteries, which is another way of saying it forces all the acid back into solution and off the plates as lead oxide.

The switch mode are the most efficient, couple these with a good sized battery bank, and an inverter and you have it all. You should also think of some brand of surge guard protection, and/or an AGS control on the genset. Then you can schedule the generator to come on at preset low voltage situations, do maintenance runs, and several other neat things.
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Old 01-11-2011, 05:08 PM   #17
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I had a discussion with one of the Concord battery engineers concerning using one of the PD converters and charging one of their AGM batteris and he loves them as that 15 min boost assures the battery is fully charged.
I used ours to revive an emergence sump pump deep cycle battery.
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Old 01-13-2011, 10:50 AM   #18
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You can't do this with AGM's, but every boondocker who is trying to charge his batteries with whatever converter powered by a generator needs to buy a hydrometer and check his batteries after the charger drops to float. Most of you are in for a big surprise. Those things are designed to be plugged into shore power 24 hours a day and in most RV's they are not installed close enough to the batteries with large enough cables for the charge voltage to reach the batteries. Even most inverter chargers are set up conservatively.
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Old 01-13-2011, 11:42 AM   #19
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You can't do this with AGM's, but every boondocker who is trying to charge his batteries with whatever converter powered by a generator needs to buy a hydrometer and check his batteries after the charger drops to float. Most of you are in for a big surprise. Those things are designed to be plugged into shore power 24 hours a day and in most RV's they are not installed close enough to the batteries with large enough cables for the charge voltage to reach the batteries. Even most inverter chargers are set up conservatively.
How true. In my rig I had 2 batteries with a # 8 wire charging them from a single stage 60 amp converter. After I was all finished I now have 6 golf cart batteries with a progressive dynamics 9280 converter on shore power and a 9245 on the onan generator. All battery banks are inches apart from each other wired with 4/0 welding wire and very heavy duty copper lugs crimped on. The 3000 watt inverter sits next to the batteries in a different compartment also fused and wired with 4/0 wire no longer then 1 foot long between battery and inverter. Remember that you want as little loses as possible between batteries both between each bank and the hot and ground leads as possible. You are only working with 12.8 volts at full charge.and every single drop in voltage accross connections or wire limits the value of your battery bank. This is most apparant at the connections between the inverter and the battery. Remember too that 20 anps at 120 volts AC is nearly 200 amps at 12 volts DC. That's a lot of current and a #8 wire supplied by the dealer will severly cripple your ability to draw maximum amps out of your battery banks at peak usage. Always use the largest conductor you can and keep connections clean and tight. That way you can get all the amps and voltage you have available.
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Old 01-30-2011, 11:30 AM   #20
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I just looked at a brand new fifth wheel yesterday that was equipped with a 55amp Intellicharger connected to a 5KW Onan generator and four brand new Trojan T105-RE batteries. After running the generator for over four hours and verifying that the battery voltage had reached 14.4 and the amps had dropped off to under 10, and then waiting an hour. the voltage at the batteries was 12.5 (not 12.8 or even 12.7). That is about a 75%, maybe 80% charge. A hydrometer would verify this, but I figured it would be a waste of time confirming what we already knew.

Doing this daily will ruin these expensive batteries within two or three years. These batteries should and will last eight years or more if treated right.

This is what I was talking about earlier. Converters only work if plugged in 24 hours a day. If you want to boondock, you need a real charger.
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Old 01-30-2011, 02:25 PM   #21
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interesting dicussion...what does driving the coach in between dry camps add to the equation? My wife and I will dry camp one or maybe two nights, between 4-8 hours of drive time. Does the engine alternator charge the house batteries back up as well as the generator?
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Old 01-30-2011, 08:45 PM   #22
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The Progressive Dynamics 9100 series (9160) by itself is a very fine 12 volt power supply.. But not the worlds' best charger.

IF it has the optional CHARGE WIZARD (this is a cord, like a telephone modular cord, that is plugged in to the converter at one end and has a disc, roughly the size of a half dollar, with a light and a button on the other end) then it's one of the best 3-stage plus converters made.

Oh, if it does not have the charge wizard, They are not expensive, like 30 bucks as I recall, and can be added using just one screwdriver.
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:20 PM   #23
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The Progressive Dynamics 9100 series (9160) by itself is a very fine 12 volt power supply.. But not the worlds' best charger.

IF it has the optional CHARGE WIZARD (this is a cord, like a telephone modular cord, that is plugged in to the converter at one end and has a disc, roughly the size of a half dollar, with a light and a button on the other end) then it's one of the best 3-stage plus converters made.

Oh, if it does not have the charge wizard, They are not expensive, like 30 bucks as I recall, and can be added using just one screwdriver.
Got the Charge Wizard tip from THIS thread and it worked great. We boondock 95% of the time and never had an issue only running our genny an hour or two per day. We have a new rig coming, and I see it has an IOTA converter...I will be adding the IQ Smart charger for it as well. (sounds like the same deal as the charge Wizard) IQ Smart Charger for DLS Series Battery Chargers from IOTA Engineering
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:52 AM   #24
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This is what I was talking about earlier. Converters only work if plugged in 24 hours a day. If you want to boondock, you need a real charger.

Bob, what do you mean by a "Real Charger" Trojan recommends a charge rate of 10% C. that is if you have 4 Trojan T-105's Max charge rate 40 amps.

The generic recommendation is 30% C, (120 amps fr the same battery bank)

Charge current is dependent on several things

1: Capacity of the charger
2: Voltage (If you draw too much current it will reduce voltage)
3: The wire connecting the batteries to the converter (and all their connections and such)
4: The internal resistance of the battery.
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Old 01-31-2011, 01:12 PM   #25
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What I mean by real charger is anything that can be set up to the proper voltage, which is 14.8V for flooded golf cart batteries, and then not drop to float immediately like many chargers operate. The best way to do this really is with solar power and my favorite is a Morningstar Tristar charge controller. Backwoods Solar sells an Iota constant voltage charger (not three stage) that works very well when run only on generator power. A Magnum inverter charger that is factory set at 14.6V & has temperature compensation works decently if run long enough.

Those converters are OK for AGM batteries, but don't work very well for wet cells when run on generator power. The term three stage alone does not mean much because if a charger drops to float too quickly, it is not a real charger.

Regarding the question on charging while driving; A motorhome's engine alternator will usually charge better than the converter, but again, how many hours do you drive? The best way for anybody to get to where they know what their battery system is doing is to install a true battery monitor like a Trimetric 2025. This will show all charging, all loads and battery level in a percentage of charge reading. Having one of these installed is a real eye opener for everybody. Suddenly you can see the phantom loads and the true load when you turn the inverter on, that the RV salesman never told you about, because he doesn't know. Getting one installed correctly can be a challenge, especially when it comes to getting it programmed right. I have seen them hooked up wrong even by solar guys.

Just spending $5 on a hydrometer is enough to convince most people that the general consensus on battery charging is not correct.
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Old 01-31-2011, 01:21 PM   #26
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Dave1956 on your coach the BIRD will charge both house batteries than when fully charged will charge the chassis battery.
When you drain your house batteries over night the alternator while driving will do this.
You should be able to drive say from Maine to FL. and stay in Cracker Barrel or Wally World at night and make it to destination with all your 12v systems charged for next stop.
Your Gen when operating will charge house batteries through your converter.
Your alternator may have a higher charge rate than your converter.
I have also use LCD & radio plus furnace doing this.
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Old 01-31-2011, 02:30 PM   #27
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To Dave.. Yes the IQ charger for IOTA is basically the same as theWizARD FOR PD's 9100's.. The difference is that where the Wizard is designed to plug into PDI converters, The IQ-4 plugs into IOTA converters. They are not swappable, but are equivalent.

To Bob. Takes at least six hours to fully charge, longer in the set up you cite.. 4 T-105's means at 50 percent would take 4 hours of FULL OUTPUT on the 9155 to come up to the 90% state. and the PDI converters won't push that hard... I'm told some Xantrex products do but I'd be hard pressed to prove it since my alternative converter is really the Prosine 2.0 inverter and it tapers off as well.

IN fact every charger I've ever used did and that includes automotive non-regulated overchargers.
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:01 PM   #28
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Great...thanks!
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