Community Forums

RJay · 09-28-2011, 12:48 PM

Francesca,
I think what your looking for is an Atmospheric Water Generator.

Francesca · 09-28-2011, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJay

Francesca,
I think what your looking for is an Atmospheric Water Generator.

I love it-
Rename a dehumidifier and you can charge ten times more for it!
It does my Capitalist Dog heart good to see that
the Spirit of American Enterprise is still alive and well

But it's disqualified, too- it uses electricity just like any other dehumidifier....

Thanks anyway!

Francesca

RJay · 09-28-2011, 01:19 PM

OK, here's my serious attempt at solving your problem.

Extraction of moisture from the air:
Fill the legs of panty hose with calcium chloride and hang it over a bucket. The bucket will collect a solution of water and calcium chloride.

Separation of the water from the calcium chloride solution:
Buy a five gallon pot and put a copper outlet at the bottom compatible with copper tubing and a shutoff. Purchase 75 feet of 1/2 inch copper tubing. Construct 15 inch diameter coils about 5 feet from the end of the tubing until the coil is 8 inches high. So far you have used about 69 feet of the coil. With the remaining length of tubing hook it over a container suitable for collecting drinking water. Fill the pot with the calcium chloride solution and build a campfire around the coil of copper tubing. As the water in the coil heats distilled water will drip from the hooked end of the copper tubing.

If you substitute sour mash for the calcium Chloride you can have an adult drink after all your hard work.

If this system is used inside to reclaim water as a result using a catalytic heater the water should be analyzed before consumption. However this system can be used in outdoor humid climates and no analysis is required.

Francesca · 09-28-2011, 01:30 PM

Now we're gettin' somewhere!

This solution is actually one I've considered, and set aside due to the distillation step.
Calcium chloride is table salt, right?
Once in solution in the water, will it "settle"; or must it remain suspended there unless removed by heat distillation?

Francesca

RJay · 09-28-2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francesca

Now we're gettin' somewhere!

This solution is actually one I've considered, and set aside due to the distillation step.
Calcium chloride is table salt, right?
Once in solution in the water, will it "settle"; or must it remain suspended there unless removed by heat distillation?

Francesca

Sodium chloride is table salt. I don't know if the calcium chloride will settle out or stratify if left to sit. However, it will take more energy to boil or separate the calcium chloride from the water than it will to just boil water because of the affinity sodium has for water. According to an internet search magnesium sulfate is even better than calcium chloride but it's a fine powder and may leach thru the nylon and I suspect it's more expensive.

Francesca · 09-28-2011, 02:47 PM

Thanks for the correction on the table salt blooper... another Francesca Factoid bites the dust!
And of course I'm looking for a "free" solution anyway- I'd like to avoid the expense of purchasing chemicals...
Kinda ruins the "free water" idea.
I'm certainly prepared to build something, though- copper coils don't discourage me at all.
That's really the kind of contraption that's been running through my mind.

I'm still waiting for confirmation of this fact, but if it's true that the water is formed by the propane's hydrogen combining with oxygen in the air...
Is it possible that a sort of "hood" with x feet of copper coil would gather and condense the (rising?) hydrogen/air as it comes off the heater?

Thanks!

Francesca

RJay · 09-28-2011, 02:56 PM

You haven't mentioned where your going to use this system which has a huge impact on the final system. But if it's truly free water your after perhaps a rain collection system is what you need.

Francesca · 09-28-2011, 03:13 PM

It's the heater in my smallest trailer, which is the one I use the most, especially on solo trips into the far far boonies. These are expeditions less like RVing, and more like "Hardsided Tentcamping".
Space is pretty limited- I usually carry about 15 gallons of fresh water and use it sparingly if I expect to be out for awhile.
I don't use a generator, and rely on a single deep cell battery for my electrics- mostly just the lights.
The gallon or so per day (in heating season) that I could potentially recover represents a day's worth of water on the most "bare bones" of those trips!
I also think that if I can collect the water, the trailer itself will "feel" warmer due to the reduction in humidity...

Francesca

RJay · 09-28-2011, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francesca

I'm still waiting for confirmation of this fact, but if it's true that the water is formed by the propane's hydrogen combining with oxygen in the air... Is it possible that a sort of "hood" with x feet of copper coil would gather and condense the (rising?) hydrogen/air as it comes off the heater?

Thanks!

Francesca

Remember, in order to change the state of a gas you have to change either the pressure or the temperature. To do as you propose the pipe would have to be cooled to the dew point in order for the moisture to condensate. Not very practical to do for a pipe suspended over a heater.

Francesca · 09-28-2011, 03:40 PM

Here's a moonshine stillhead.
Pot Still, copper Moonshine Still
It's even got a Liebeg condenser in it!

I'm thinking if it were attached to my "hood" and installed on an uninsulated outside wall during cold weather...
Of course, that still depends on where the water is coming from.
If the hydrogen in the propane is necessary to the process, I wonder whether my "hood" will collect it?.

Francesca

RJay · 09-28-2011, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francesca

I also think that if I can collect the water, the trailer itself will "feel" warmer due to the reduction in humidity...

Francesca

Actually, the more moisture in the air the higher the heat index will be and you will perceive it to be warmer for a given temperature. The reason you want to get rid of the excessive moisture from burning propane is to prevent the formation of mold and mildew.

RJay · 09-28-2011, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francesca

Here's a moonshine stillhead.
Pot Still, copper Moonshine Still
It's even got a Liebeg condenser in it!

I'm thinking if it were attached to my "hood" and installed on an uninsulated outside wall during cold weather...
Of course, that still depends on where the water is coming from.
If the hydrogen in the propane is necessary to the process, I wonder whether my "hood" will collect it?.

Francesca

The Liebeg condenser is designed to be used with a boiler. The pressure from the boiler pushes a large volume of steam through the condenser and produces a fairly high yield of condensate. If it's used on a hood the pressure to push the moist air thru the condenser is missing, so only the rising warm air flows thru the condenser and you lose the volume of moist air to produce a sufficient amount of condensate. Even if the condenser works, you still have the potential problem of removing the heavy metals from the collected water.

Francesca · 09-28-2011, 04:53 PM

O.K.!
No Liebeg Condenser...
Might copper coils work, or is pressure necessary there, too?
Oh-
And where do the heavy metals come from in the collected water?

Thanks!

francesca

TXiceman · 09-28-2011, 05:55 PM

On the issue of CO, if you look at the incomplete combustion equation, for every mole of propane burned, you get 1 mole of CO. That is not insignificant in my opinion. If you vent for the CO, you will loose the water vapor as well.

To keep the interior dry you have the choices of:
Venting
Combustion furnace with an exterior vent
Use a dehumidifier.

Ken