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Old 12-11-2010, 12:15 PM   #29
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Sorry to disagree, but that's an old story JayLodge, and one that will always be around.... If someone else is doing something we know is just not right, but they do it worse than we do, then it's okay for us to do it a little bit? Really? What kinds of moral issues should we apply that to? It's like saying if Russia dumps a LOT of nuclear waste into their waterways (and they do), then it's okay for other countries to dump a lesser amount into waterways.... Or if lots of people abuse their kids, then it's okay for the rest of us to abuse children a little bit?? Hello? If it's so OKAY with you to dump your crap on the public lands, why don't you just dump it in your own front yard at home, or even better dump it on your neighbors yard, I'm sure they won't mind, after all everybody dumps it into the Great Lakes, right?
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Old 12-11-2010, 12:41 PM   #30
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I think we are entering the realm of the slippery slope. In LA City you can now use your household grey water to water your lawn etc. This was brought about because of some judge in the Bay Area cutting off alot of the water for Southern California. So what was once bad is now OK. As we all recall, plastic bags came about to save trees, which happen to be a renewable recource. The dear old leaf blower was brought on the scene to conserve water. Don't hose it, blow it ! Well we now have every gardener blowing trash into the air along with brake dust that can't be helping our lungs. It's like the ultra's saying that methane gas from cattle is helping cause global warming. Drive across the US, theres nothing out there.
But not to get off topic, I love boondocking and do it all the time. I love the freedom that comes with it. As a matter of fact we just returned from Hole in the Wall Campground, out by Amboy, CA. It was beautiful out there.
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:07 PM   #31
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I agree with your entire post, Chuck, and I don't really mean to flame or otherwise disrespect anyone, and you are right, I did step out onto the slippery slope. Sorry, JayLodge, I was a little rough on you, and I DO understand what you are saying. Really unlike me most of the time. It's just that we all make so many self-serving arguments, and the one about "but someone else doing it worse, therefore my little bit doesn't matter" is just plain irrational. It all adds up. We all make a difference; and we all leave a footprint, no matter how small.

Now, to set the record straight, and call a little BS on myself, I have dumped gray water in the desert. Yikes! (And, I said so in my first response in this thread, so I wasn't trying to be "holier than thou".) And, yes, I've found the need to make "emergency dumps" of gray water here and there in my travels (though I've NEVER dumped black water inappropriately in 17 years of motorhoming.) The only thing I can say in my defense is that I am very careful to use only soaps that are from vegetable oils (like Seventh Generation products, which I mentioned in an earlier post.) Not much of a defense, given my staunch position on this matter, but the reality is that I'm doing the best I can to minimize my footprint. If you're camped in the desert, and you have to drive 30 miles to a dumpsite just for gray water relief, does it make sense to drive the round-trip? Which would pollute worse? I think I'll water the sagebrush. But I WILL do it only when I'm in a bind, and I will do it with the best (meaning least harmful) chemistry. Right on, Chuck, fulltiming is a great life, and we're doing it for fun and adventure, two of my favorite things. People are important too, so sorry for being so brash. My story, and I'm stickin' to it!
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:16 PM   #32
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I have followed this post with great interest as we boondock quite a bit. I too on rare occassions have dumped small amouts of grey water on the ground, but only in extreme cases when I had no other choice. Any time we talk about envirnomental issues it is a slippery slope .

Here is what I think about before I pull that valve to dump my grey water tank on the ground , (I'm going to use Quartzsite as an example, but it applies to all places that we visit). I wonder what the impact would be if all of the campers that were on the Quartzsite BLM LTV and dispersed camping areas were to dump all of thier grey water on the ground for thier entire visit! Would it be the great place that it is to boondock at the present time, I wonder how I would feel about pulling up, putting out my stuff knowing that a person before may have dumped 100's of gallons of grey water at my door step. Just something to thing about .

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Old 12-11-2010, 02:37 PM   #33
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steelheadbluesman;Chuck, fulltiming is a great life, and we're doing it for fun and adventure, two of my favorite things. People are important too, so sorry for being so brash. My story, and I'm stickin' to it! [/QUOTE]

Hi Steelhead. You weren't being brash, no need to be sorry, I agree with what you have to say. Sometimes, some people get carried away with green, such as, I alway exhale into a paper bag so that I can dispose of it in the proper manner. Thats an exageration , of course, of the kind of extreme thinking that makes me crazy.I think the great majority of boondockers do their best to keep things in order and done the right way by using biodegadable soaps etc. HOWEVER, my son was behind an old beat up camper at a dump station. The guy got out, walked back to his dump valve and turned er loose, no hose, no nothing and then drove off without even closing the valves.
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Old 12-11-2010, 04:01 PM   #34
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Spikester, Quartzsite is a good example of how things could get out of hand in a hurry if everyone were to just dump full tanks of grey water. On the other hand, I was camped in an RV park and had inadvertently left my grey water valve open with no hose attached. Every bit that leaked out had soaked into the ground in a spot no bigger than a frying pan. I never noticed it until I went to dump the tanks and saw the mistake I had made. The desert is a lot more arid than the RV park and would suck up the water in a heartbeat. Not only that, people boondocking in Quartzsite are not using much water to start with. I am not condoneing dumping water and polluting the area. One has to make sure they are doing the right thing and not to make a mess for other folks.
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Old 12-11-2010, 08:27 PM   #35
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I can verify what Jay says, Portland, Oregon, routinely when it rains hard overflows the sewer lines into the Willamette River, and they close the river to water activities 3 miles downstream from where the pipe empty's in. This happens all the time since it rains buckets there. If you check the current weather, they are experiencing a real heavy rain now, and although winter, it most likely spilling raw sewage into the river. The feds don't do anything about it, and don't even fine them any longer. There is a sewer improvement project going on, to the tune of around 1 billion dollars all told, and it's supposed to give them about 3 years of non overflow until the local population builds and causes overflows again. The cure to having this problem stop is obvious. Limit city size, unless the infrastructure has the capacity to handle the population. And if I was EPA, I would fine them one million dollars a day until the problem was fixed. When I was growing up, in NW Atlanta, our house was on sewer, and it was built in the 30ís. So cityís can do adequate planning and not have these issues, or they can be terrible about planning (Read-Portland, OR) and suffer the consequences. Our RV has large holding tanks, I can go at least a week, or longer before I need to worry about dumping, gray water wonít hurt anything, but, the rules say not to do it, so we donít.
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Old 12-12-2010, 02:37 PM   #36
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Loved Chuck1935 remark about exhaling into the bag. LOL on that one.
But I have a thick skin Steadhead, and it is not surprising that at least one person would have a staunch position on ecology, etc. BTW, my remarks had nothing to do with "right" or "wrong" -- just a dose of reality. Good intentions can go awrie as well. Along the east coast, there was a movement, taxation, ordinances, etc. a few years ago, that have severly cut down on the number of marine pump out (black water) stations. I suspect the effort was well intended in principal, but the "reality" was that people are 1) going to use their boat and 2) going to put their crap SOMEWHERE! Results: they just contrived ways to pump out themselves, whereever! Some more thoughtful people tried to get a few miles off shore at least. (freighters and cruise ships do it legally beyond 12 mile limit).
So I'd like to believe that most of the responders to this thread, while IN PRINCIPLE believe that a grey water dump in remote areas is OK, given a CHOICE to NOT have to do so, they would gladly dump at a designated dump station, as I certainly would.
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Old 12-12-2010, 10:23 PM   #37
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Just a reminder and common sense....residential septic systems put all grey water and sewage in the ground. The ground is a great filter and also a great system to break down sewage. Don't do something you wouldn't want others do do, but also don't get too worked up about common sense waste disposal.
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:00 PM   #38
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I'm outa this thread....
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:59 PM   #39
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Let's not stray into the political arena, folks. Boondocking is the topic. Since that OP was back in August & their trip was in October, I'm sure they figured out how to manage their water/energy usage.

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Old 01-04-2011, 03:30 PM   #40
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Old sewer mains in the street usually have a lot of leaks. Mostly the ground water goes into the sewer main which increases during and after storms. This needs to be dealt with on a national level. Storm drains also go into the sanitary sewer thus causing an excess of sewage into the sewer plant during storms. This also needs to be dealt with on a national level. All this stimulis money should have been earmarked for projects like this which generates value instead of being P----D away.
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Old 01-04-2011, 07:17 PM   #41
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moderator hat on:

Folks, several posts have been removed from this thread because they contained overly political comments and opinions about one political party or another.

It's fine to discuss the merits of dumping gray water but when the thread wanders into a discussion about "greenies, global warming and Al Gore' we have left the topic of this thread in the dust and wandered into politics. It's NOT ok to call names, point fingers or insult another for their opinion here at iRV2. You can disagree about dumping gray water or even the policies of a campground but need to find a way to do it in a collegial way and free from political railing.

Please review our community rules as they pertain to political posting and try to get along. We are a forum about RVing and RVing appeals to all kinds of folks including those who dump gray water, those who don't and even those who are still learning what gray water is.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:26 AM   #42
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As one whose post was deleted, let me say that it was not my intention to insult anyone for wanting to go "green". The point I was trying to make was that common sense is universal. Choosing to deflect the "Green Movement" in no way means that you have any aversion to doing the right thing.

Sorry to have offended the mods here. I didn't mean to.
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