Go Back   iRV2 Forums > CAMPING, TRAVEL and TRIP PLANNING > Boondocking
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-14-2011, 06:39 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Bob/Becky D - VA's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triker56 View Post
Are 4 of those 12V 105 AH each better then 4 of the 6V ones with 220 AH each?
At the same price. And the 6V 9 lb. less each.
Sounds to me like the 6V would be better: 36lbs lighter and each would equate to 110 AH @12V, for a total of 20AH gain over four 12V.

Bob
__________________

__________________
USMC (Retired) Not as lean - Not as mean - but still a Marine!

2003 Itasca Suncruiser 38G Workhorse W22 8.1L, 2005 Grand Cherokee Toad
Bob/Becky D - VA is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-14-2011, 06:40 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Tha_Rooster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 4,513
You know what they say who ever dies with the most toys wins.
__________________

__________________
2007 Fleetwood Revolution LE 40V
Tha_Rooster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 07:37 PM   #17
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Big Bear Ca.(Sugarloaf)
Posts: 1,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAN L View Post
camping man,
you can lay the lifeline agm's on their sides so you can fit larger batteries in the same space. my 6ct's are 13 1/4'' tall. that's what i did.
there are pictures of my installation in the archives of this forum. my 6ct's weigh 90# each. make sure your battery compartment can hold them.
actually, you could install the agm's upside down but that would not save any space.
my original 45 amp demented converter/charger is putting out 13.5-13.6 volts in float mode and this is working ok for me. for long term parking i either jumper my sears agm starting battery to the lifeline bank or use my separate schumacher sc-6500a to keep my starting battery charged.
Thats a good external charger I bought two, one for the MH and one for our Firetruck. When the almost new Interstates go bad I will think of replacing with the AGM's.
__________________
Mark & Carole
What a long strange trip it's been.

No longer RVing. Happy Trails to you.
Campingman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 08:44 PM   #18
Registered User
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Nor'easters Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triker56 View Post
Are 4 of those 12V 105 AH each better then 4 of the 6V ones with 220 AH each?
At the same price. And the 6V 9 lb. less each.
I'm not sure what model numbers you are referring to. The Lifeline GPL-4CT 6V is 3 pounds lighter than the GPL-31T 12V ones I have. That would be a total of 12 pounds lighter. If that form factor works for you, it does seem like you'd get more power at 12 pounds less total weight. In my situation, the battery compartment and mounting hardware is designed for four group 31 batteries. The 6V ones would require some modifications to fit so, for me, it would not be worth it to save 12 pounds.

I'm a little confused as to why the 6V ones weigh less for a little greater AH. Is it a 6V vs. 12V thing or just a difference in case design for these particular batteries?
__________________
offthewall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 07:03 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
Triker56's Avatar
 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by offthewall View Post
I'm not sure what model numbers you are referring to. The Lifeline GPL-4CT 6V is 3 pounds lighter than the GPL-31T 12V ones I have.
I'm a little confused as to why the 6V ones weigh less for a little greater AH. Is it a 6V vs. 12V thing or just a difference in case design for these particular batteries?
I did find another site that only shows 3 lb between the 2.
If you boondock a lot there is a big difference in minutes of discharge. That would be worth doing some modification to some serious boondockers not to save pounds, but to gain on AMP's.
Also the 6V give a lot more bang for the bucks spent.

Minutes of Discharge
.........25AMP....15AMP....8AMP
12V....195........340........688
6V......492........856.......1692
__________________
Triker56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 07:55 AM   #20
Registered User
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Nor'easters Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triker56 View Post
I did find another site that only shows 3 lb between the 2.
If you boondock a lot there is a big difference in minutes of discharge. That would be worth doing some modification to some serious boondockers not to save pounds, but to gain on AMP's.
Also the 6V give a lot more bang for the bucks spent.

Minutes of Discharge
.........25AMP....15AMP....8AMP
12V....195........340........688
6V......492........856.......1692
I think those 6V numbers get divided by 2 but they still are more than the 12V. Still curious why that is. Is somehow 6V more efficient with the same physical resources? I'm not arguing the point, just trying to understand it.
__________________
offthewall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 08:37 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
DAN L's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,898
Quote:
Originally Posted by offthewall View Post
I think those 6V numbers get divided by 2 but they still are more than the 12V. Still curious why that is. Is somehow 6V more efficient with the same physical resources? I'm not arguing the point, just trying to understand it.
the amount of lead in batteries matters.
2 12v in parallel: the weaker battery will be a parasite to the stronger battery.
this doesn't happen with 2 6v batteries in series, but could if you have 4 in a series-parallel arrangement.
here are some references:

RVcruzer.com Electrical Tutorial - Chapter 7 - Batteries and Chargers

6 Volt Batteries vs 12 Volt - SailNet Community
__________________
01 WINNEBAGO 35U W20.8.1L SW Wa, Hi. Good Sam, SKP. AMSOIL fluids. BANKS ecm program. SCAN GAUGE II w/ Ally temp. 2 LIFELINE GPL-6CT AGM Batts on their sides. TST tptts. K&N panel air filter. AERO mufflers. TAYLOR plug wires. ULTRA POWER track bar. KONI fsd shocks, toad '14 smart car
DAN L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2011, 02:16 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 288
Could-a bought this or that- dont worry about that now. Just rest easy knowing youve basically got your juice needs covered for about a decade.

I went AGM for my boats 2 years ago (Odyssey PC2150's) and will never go back to wet cells (except for maybe rolls!)

As soon as my toy hauler and RV batts give up they are "going agm" too.

- although I do have a warning!

Unlike wets when charging where you'll see the amps into the batteries drop quickly as internal resistance heats up the units - the AGM aren't like that at all.

AGM will charge back up much quicker than lead acids- which is awesome for genny run times

You can BLAST amperage into them at about 70% of their total capacity safely which means your 400 AH bank will suck up 280 amps of juice.

Which means effectively you are at and holding 100% of the output of your charging gear for long periods of time.

You can quite easily burn up an alternator, or inverter charger because the AGM's will suck practically all the capacity your charging equipment can deliver and will "hold" there till nearly full-you can burn up a 100 amp alternator pretty quickly.

Ive measured my 165AH alternator at 100% output for about 40 minutes straight once.

My Advice is to be intentional about how you charge them if they are past 50% because you can easily fry your gear.

Aside from this moderate caution IMHO AGM's are the way to fly.

You made a sound choice sir.


Uncle Dave
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Pc2150's.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	327.8 KB
ID:	7819   Click image for larger version

Name:	710 in crate.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	363.9 KB
ID:	7820  

__________________
Uncle Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2011, 02:24 PM   #23
Registered User
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Nor'easters Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 552
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Dave View Post
Could-a bought this or that- dont worry about that now. Just rest easy knowing youve basically got your juice needs covered for about a decade.

I went AGM for my boats 2 years ago (Odyssey PC2150's) and will never go back to wet cells (except for maybe rolls!)

As soon as my toy hauler and RV batts give up they are "going agm" too.

- although I do have a warning!

Unlike wets when charging where you'll see the amps into the batteries drop quickly as internal resistance heats up the units - the AGM aren't like that at all.

AGM will charge back up much quicker than lead acids- which is awesome for genny run times

You can BLAST amperage into them at about 70% of their total capacity safely which means your 400 AH bank will suck up 280 amps of juice.

Which means effectively you are at and holding 100% of the output of your charging gear for long periods of time.

You can quite easily burn up an alternator, or inverter charger because the AGM's will suck practically all the capacity your charging equipment can deliver and will "hold" there till nearly full-you can burn up a 100 amp alternator pretty quickly.

Ive measured my 165AH alternator at 100% output for about 40 minutes straight once.

My Advice is to be intentional about how you charge them if they are past 50% because you can easily fry your gear.

Aside from this moderate caution IMHO AGM's are the way to fly.

You made a sound choice sir.


Uncle Dave
Now that's some awesome looking gear!
__________________
offthewall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2011, 02:41 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by offthewall View Post
Now that's some awesome looking gear!
Thanks sir, I must confess I think the rig is pretty sweet.

The "mill" is an Ilmor Engineering 710 - 700 HP 10 cylinder 505CI/8.3 litre all aluminum.

It'll push my Laveycraft 2750 to 90 with a half tank of gas and 5 (small) people on board.

I got my girlfriend "cleaning my pipes".....

This is my water escalade- big fast comfy and loaded with electronics.

I another fast boat when I need to prove a point or get myself hurt.

Thanks for the compliment and you'll love your AGM's

Uncle Dave
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	tie up at MDR.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	514.0 KB
ID:	7821   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0583.jpg
Views:	80
Size:	163.5 KB
ID:	7822  

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_3016.jpg
Views:	80
Size:	94.9 KB
ID:	7823   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0579.jpg
Views:	86
Size:	217.5 KB
ID:	7824  

__________________
Uncle Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2011, 05:27 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Tha_Rooster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 4,513
Very nice first time I've been jealous I had a single seat 90+tunnel boat when I was 17 had the most fun of my life.
__________________
2007 Fleetwood Revolution LE 40V
Tha_Rooster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2011, 12:28 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha_Rooster View Post
Very nice first time I've been jealous I had a single seat 90+tunnel boat when I was 17 had the most fun of my life.
Thank You
I know what you mean. My favorite boat to drive is my little 21ft tunnel hull.
This one has a 500 HP small block in it.
YouTube - Dyno run at Westech.MP4

I "loved" her for 20 years now...

Back to the subject for a sec- this boat has Optimas- never had luck with them- red top , blue top, yellow top- doesn't matter the top S -3 seasons max.



Uncle Dave
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20.8 open hatch .jpg
Views:	70
Size:	64.1 KB
ID:	7838   Click image for larger version

Name:	20.8 naci.jpg
Views:	72
Size:	320.4 KB
ID:	7839  

__________________
Uncle Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2011, 08:33 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,492
Careful charging the AGMs

AGM will take as much charging current as you have, but there is a problem with that.

For very short periods of time they can take 1C rate of charge, where C is the capacity in amp hours of the battery, so a 105 amp hour battery can take up to 105 amps rate of charge for a short period of time..

BUT most AGM batteries in the 100 to 200 amp hour size prefer a maximum rate of charge of about 20 to 25 amps.

It is best for every installation to download the manufacturer data sheet and do what you can to configure your system to be within the suggested voltage and current ranges.

Most fixed installations where there is expected to be a rapid charge rate due to extended power failure causing the low voltage disconnect to act have feedback from the batteries in the form of a temperature sensor and controlled rate of charge as the DC plant is often built to sustain the normal loads that the batteries are designed to back up.

If you just inser AGM batteries in you system without configuring your charging system you could cause harm to the batteries, good quality AGM batteries are designed for a 10 year installed life in float service, this will be less when deep cycleing as they are rated for 1000 to 1500 cycles.

Reducing the rate of charge keeps the heat lower so ther is less chance of gassing.

Yes, they DO gass off, they are VRLA batteries, Valve Regulated Lead Acid, the AGM is the structure inside that contains the acid.

For starting batteries the period of time that they are discharged douring normal starting does not remove much energy from the batteries to the rate of charge is high for a few seconds, then it returns to a float condition if the altrnator voltage is adjusted properly.

The coach batteries need to have a controlled rate of charge, usually this is limited by the output of the converter, however some have been known to install a larger one specificly to rapid charge the batteries, this may be ok sometimes when a short charge time needed, but better to take it slow.

The difference in weight is the construction of the battery.

If a battery is heavier per volt/AH, it is a good chance it will survive more deep cycles as there is more lead available to be consumed by the process.

Minutes to discharge is dependent on the load in amps on the battery, the total capacity and the internal resistance. The higher the load the less capacity the battery has due to the internal resistance of the cells.

Above where the 6 volt had a greater run time was apples and oranges, it would take 2 6 volt in series to make 12 volt, and the run time would be the same if the AH of the different batteries were the same, GPL-4CT 6V is a 220 AH battery @20 hr rate while the GPL-31T 12V is a 105 AH battery @20 hr rating.

Which one is better? depends on what you have in space and what your needs are.

An 8D wet battry makes a better starting battery but the AGM results in a battery system that can be mounted inside the MH where the temperature could be more stable and have greater lifespan.
__________________
TQ60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2011, 11:29 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 288
TQ- is correct about charging sensitivity.
If your charger inverter has an AGM setting- USE it.

I have not experienced my Odyssey AGM's having any issues at all at well over the 25 Amps you say they "Prefer".

Odyssey recommends 40amp in a 2150 and it's a 100AH battery close to Off the walls GPL-31T 12V from what I can tell.

Agreed, offthewall should see what lifeline says about his battery safe charge rate.

AGMs are VERY sensitive to overcharging, but their acceptance rate is head and shoulders above wets and one of the major reasons to use an AGM in my opinion.

Being able to really use the charging amps you paid for to get the back up full quickly vs hours of genny or engine run time is a major AGM plus.

In my own situation If I were to charge my AGM's like wets I'd just buy the cheaper wets.

U.D
__________________

__________________
Uncle Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Replacing 12 volt Converter and Battery Charger DriVer RV Systems & Appliances 13 08-22-2011 11:32 AM
Bad 50amp causing battery problems JazzZen MH-General Discussions & Problems 10 06-03-2010 10:56 AM
Bad sulfer smell from battery dentra Pop Up, Tent Trailer and Teardrop Topics 4 05-10-2010 06:18 PM
How big is your house battery bank? Bigwheel iRV2.com General Discussion 10 01-23-2010 12:06 PM
Resurrect - Dead Cordless Battery Oemtech iRV2.com General Discussion 5 09-17-2005 07:09 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.