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Old 06-25-2011, 10:17 AM   #211
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Like others, we have never even been in a situation which made us feel remotely like pulling a weapon on another human being.

If you read enough on this topic, you'll find a substantial number of forum members who have had very different experiences though. I believe I've read posts from a number of those who have pulled their weapons... some while driving ... to ward off trouble. In these discussions some have even indicated that they have pulled their weapons "many times to keep situations from getting out of hand". To my way of thinking, a situation gets out of hand as soon as someone draws a handgun.

We carry Bear Spray too.

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Wrong way of thinking!!
Maybe, but not all good guys wear white hats and not all bad guys wear black hats... there's a lot of grey in most folks and being the first to pull a gun on someone... sometimes just to persuade them... smacks of bully behavior and can escalate a situation which might not have become violent otherwise. I am learning that I'm a bit too old school in my thinking on this but was taught by my dad (LEO) that one shouldn't pull a gun on someone unless and until you were going to take their life.

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Old 06-25-2011, 12:06 PM   #212
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I worked for the state of WA for 30 years. Most worked were great and pulled their weight well. On friedn got drunk and crashed his motorcycle on the way home form the bar, suffered brain damage. BUT they kept him working till he had his 30 years in and could retire.
I'm betting a lot of people here would call that criminal, but then celebrate a private company that hired the handicapped!! No difference except in your view of the situation!!
As long he was productive in whatever capacity he was able to with tasks given to him, no matter how simple, I never have an issue with it.

The local Burger King hires a lot of mentally handicapped people, and they do much better work than most teenagers and college age kids do at the job.
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Old 06-25-2011, 12:17 PM   #213
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Actually, I could believe those numbers. Rednecks and Texans. (no offense to any decent Texans in here, I know there are a handful of good ones!)

"Hey, hold my beer and watch this!"
"I'll prove these steel toe boots are the best out there! They will stop a bullet! Here, I'll even hold it in front of my face as proof."
"This here gun ain't big enough to harm no one, see?"
I'm a Redneck from Texas with a LOT of GUNS.....LOOK OUT!
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Old 06-26-2011, 12:50 AM   #214
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I'm a Redneck from Texas with a LOT of GUNS.....LOOK OUT!
Mexican standoff or Russian Roulette style?
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Old 07-03-2011, 06:56 AM   #215
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I finally decided on my "full-time weapon" after many hours of researching the pros and cons of the various handgun calibers, with my DW's ability to handle the weapon one of the major considerations. The "Judge" was at the top of my list -- then, someone turned me on the the "Five-seveN" manufactured by FN Herstal as the 5.7 x 28mm FN Five-seveNŽ Series Handguns . The pistol comes in a carrying case with three 20 round magazines which can be easily modified to hold 30 rounds. The range of ammunition that is available to civilian users is more than adequate -- the really mean Kevlar busting stuff is limited to the military and law enforcement (as it should be). The negatives -- initial cost of the pistol and limited availability of 5.7x28 mm ammunition are the top two. Here's a good sampling of the ammo available Elite Ammunition for the Five-seveN.
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Old 07-03-2011, 07:39 PM   #216
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"I am learning that I'm a bit too old school in my thinking on this but was taught by my dad (LEO) that one shouldn't pull a gun on someone unless and until you were going to take their life."


Rick, I am sure that your dad also told you that just because have to pull a gun does not mean you have to kill someone.
I usually leave these type of macho threads alone because most are only selling woof cookies and if push comes to shove could not justify the taking of a life. I was on the job for 27 years, when I run into some of these types I figure the best thing to do is just keep quiet and get away from these discussions by suddenly remembering something I forgot at the MH. It is a serious thing to shoot and probably kill someone and something that you will live with forever. If you have any sort of conscious you will ask yourself forever, "could I have handled this any other way and not have to have killed this guy".

Thank you to your dad for his service and teaching you the right way to do it.
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:07 PM   #217
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I was taught that the purpose is to stop the threat, your not trying to hurt or kill anyone, but if I must hurt or even kill to stop the threat , than that's what I have to do. My intention is to stop the threat
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:29 PM   #218
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Rick, I am sure that your dad also told you that just because have to pull a gun does not mean you have to kill someone.
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I was taught that the purpose is to stop the threat, your not trying to hurt or kill anyone, but if I must hurt or even kill to stop the threat , than that's what I have to do. My intention is to stop the threat
Thanks Doc.

I think what he tried to instill in me was that there had to be a life/death threat to warrant the pulling of a gun... and only in the movies do the good guys disable the bad guys by shooting the gun out of their hands or "winging" them on purpose. The best way to stop the threat was to aim for the largest part of the body and keep on firing.

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Old 07-04-2011, 04:28 AM   #219
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Thanks Doc.

The best way to stop the threat was to aim for the largest part of the body and keep on firing.

Rick
my training at the front sight firearms institute near pahrump, nv. says to shoot two times to stop the threat.
3 shots or more can be interpreted as excessive force by a grand jury or prosecuting attorney.
my oregon ccl training is similar.

Front Sight Firearms Training Institute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 07-04-2011, 10:52 PM   #220
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What if 2 shots doesn't stop the threat? I'm taught to stop the threat. If alls it takes is to display the firearm without using a round, great, that's all the better. If I can stop the threat with one round, awesome, but you think if the threats still coming after 2 I'm going to stop firing ? Noway
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Old 07-04-2011, 11:02 PM   #221
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Amusing responses. I just wonder how many would have their family killed, harmed, raped, plundered etc, before pulling the trigger , or not having any protection at all.

I would rather be judged by 12 of my peers, than carried by 6 pallbearers, or live with the fact that I failed to protect what was mine and those I loved.
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Old 07-05-2011, 12:20 AM   #222
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If I find myself in a situation that warrants me having to defend myself and my family I will not hesitate to present my firearm. There are a huge number of potential scenario's that couldnt concisely be addressed in a short post but let me try a couple.

If a bad guy has a firearm pointed at me and I believe that there is no way for me and my family to get out of that situation safely (without utilizing deadly force to remove the threat) I will engage the threat. Its the families job to duck and cover. They know what to do....

My family has also been taught that I and only I will make the decision if I am going to use my weapon. They dont ask if I am carrying... If I am in a store that is getting robbed and the thief isnt recklessly putting people at risk with pointing a firearm at them and specifically saying he will kill people I will likely hand over my wallet and raise my hands like the rest of the good sheep.

My carry piece is equipped with a palm grip laser. I believe this to be a bigger deterrent than the gun itself. If mr badguy with a knife looks down at his chest and obtains a preview of exactly where I will be placing the first nearly 1/2" holes that will be heading his direction... I imagine he just might re-evaluate his options.

An armed society is a polite society... Criminals target the weak and vulnerable. Be neither of these things.

Chris
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Old 09-11-2011, 01:57 PM   #223
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I legally carry. Have never needed it. Also never used my fire extinguisher but keep it handy.

I whole hardily agree with other posters if you are not proficient with a gun, then don't use it until you are. Target practice doesn't count.
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Old 09-11-2011, 05:20 PM   #224
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I whole hardily agree with other posters if you are not proficient with a gun, then don't use it until you are. Target practice doesn't count.
Can you please explain further? Are you speaking of a gun safety class or combat training?

Rick
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