A Thank You to all Vietnam Vets

[Sequim Guy]

So using your premise that all military are better than all civilian, the next obvious step up is that the harder you fought for your country, the better person you are. Meaning that those with actual combat experience are better than the cooks, clerks, and helicopter mechanics.
Moving up again, the next better people are the ones that were wounded fighting for their country, and the best ones of all are the men that died for their country.
And the last one is the one we can finally agree on.




.

[rmmpe]

This seems to be getting a bit out of hand.
As the topic is "A thank you to all Viet Nam Vets", I and a number of others mentioned those that had not served but showed contempt for those that did serve at that time.

A Vet is a Vet is a Vet. And very few of us had choices when Uncle Sam cut our orders.

Personally, I'm very happy our more recent and soon to be Vets didn't/won't experience what happened during the dark days. They don't, nor did we, deserve to be treated with contempt and/or hostility.

Are most Vets, regardless of MOS, better than those having treated them badly?
You damn well betcha!

I'm certainly not ashamed of my service or what I did and when thanked, by anyone, I appreciate it. It's a far cry from what I came home to back in the day.

As for my chips: I wasn't born with them.

[w6pea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by w6pea When people thank me for my service I just say Thank You...then I walk away from them. If We Can't Haul It....You Don't Need It ! Motor-T

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmmpe This seems to be getting a bit out of hand. As the topic is "A thank you to all Viet Nam Vets", I and a number of others mentioned those that had not served but showed contempt for those that did serve at that time. A Vet is a Vet is a Vet. And very few of us had choices when Uncle Sam cut our orders. Personally, I'm very happy our more recent and soon to be Vets didn't/won't experience what happened during the dark days. They don't, nor did we, deserve to be treated with contempt and/or hostility. Are most Vets, regardless of MOS, better than those having treated them badly? You damn well betcha! I'm certainly not ashamed of my service or what I did and when thanked, by anyone, I appreciate it. It's a far cry from what I came home to back in the day. As for my chips: I wasn't born with them.

Bob
That is very well put.



If We Can't Haul It....You Don't Need It ! Motor-T

[plumberfrank]

ladies and gentlmen i've read the last 4 pages from this thread. some have brought tears to my eyes and a very large lump in my throat and past memories are still there and will never go away. i was a fo in the nam(forward observer), 69-71.,173rd. there aretimes when i dont want people to know that i was there,then times i want to stand up and scream and holler and do the mad minute, but i don't. the Good Lord seem to deem it necessary to bring me home. i had 47 days left in the army.got a letter from my best friend's mom that jimmy was kia 37 days into his tour.i felt it was my obligation as a friend to continue where he had left. i went reenlisted and went. am i sorry. HELL NO. would i do it again, yes. most of us went over there for GOD and country. when we came back all we had was GOD. with out Him and my wife i now know where i would've landed. as for being better than those that were non-veterans, they will never have the fellowship that we as combat vets have with each other, nor the understanding of inner feelings.quess i just needed to vent.to all combat vets, yeah thou i walk thru the valley of death i will fear no evil, for i'm the evilest sob in the valley. welcome brothers

[rmmpe]

Not a 'Joiner' and a bit of a loner by nature, I am a member of the USSVI and the MCL.

It's the Cameraderie, my friends, it's the Cameraderie.

[RV Roadie]

Stan Thanks for posting this! I enjoyed reading it. I just reviewed my post below because it is on topic insofar as understanding the thanks we get. I was a medic during my first 4 years in the AF and served the Vietnam war 71-75 at Barksdale AFB Hospital taking care of our returning vets and bomber base personnel. Our pilots with the mighty 8th AF did rolling thunder and several other missions to bring the war to Hanoi. I Xtrained to med lab tech, but then Xtrained again into Combat Arms back when we were Small Arm Marksmanship Training Unit (SAMTU) later renamed Combat Arms Training and Maintenance or CATM. My last year after a decade falling under Security Police we then became security police in 1997 as the Career fields were combined, and SPs renamed Security Forces as senior enlisted

We have some serious Combat Vets and some plain vanilla vets, as well as drafted vets, some who re-enlisted and some who did not. We have officer vets and enlisted vets and W/O vets. We have vets of all races and creeds even all genders. It seems that we do indeed forget, and for some that is a blessing, that we are or have been the protectors. Not of the weak, but of our freedoms in a way most don't understand. I am not being critical of the labels and feelings being applied here because we have to be able to understand something before we can label it. I fully understand those who thank us, and I fully understand those of us who feel uncomfortable about the very public thanks being given to us in recent years.

It is for me, indeed, the camaraderie.

I think that many folks can tread Lt.Col Grossman's treatise on Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs and come away with an entirely different understanding of what he means. I don't agree with stereotyping civilians all into one group good or bad. I especially don't agree with stereotyping my fellow vets as any simplistic for or against anything, be that a political, personal, or public label to be applied across the board.

I read Grossman's treatise and the issues being discussed with such passion and rancor here are perfectly explained. Some read Grossman and come away feeling superior if they served, thinking wrongly that Grossman meant being a sheepdog is a better role than being a sheep! Nothing could be further from the truth. Sheep are what make the world nice and advance our civilization. They have no capacity for violence. They are happy as sheep and sheep has no negative connotations here.

Some of us have a capacity for violence and we become either wolves who prey on sheep and the unlucky few sheepdogs who they catch unawares. Those of us in this thread are all sheepdogs. Some by choice, some by chance, in an annual lottery.

For me, once I understood my role as a sheepdog, and that the sheep were worth protecting, I had no rancor for them. I also understood why they were fearful of us, and would group together as a mob in fear and protest any attempt to force them to be sheepdogs. The all volunteer force is more sensible because we don't trap competent sheepdogs with sheep on their wings. Some of us go to war and find we are sheepdogs and perfectly suited. Others have a lot of difficulty because they were actually sheep who had to do sheepdog duties and somehow did. I salute you especially. It is easier to do what is in our nature than what goes dead against it. Within our ranks we have those who managed to ratchet themselves up to a job that was beyond them, rose to the task and prevailed. Over themselves.

It is the camaraderie. We gather when we see the signs of fellow sheepdogs gathering. We expect some to start some sniffing out who is top dog but now just in fun, most times and places. And we watch out for each other even when we disagree.

The bad news, for those who want to be a sheep, is that maybe you can if you were one to begin with and returned with no scars from trying to overcome and run with the dogs.

The bad news is that we will never be sheep by and large. If you think you can go out and try to get a sheepdog to run in the herd and ignore the sounds of wolves in their midst, or try to get a sheep to control the herd and protect it from the wolves.

We will always have the sheep, good gentle folks who validate our existence by theirs, either saying thanks with trepidation, or fearful and wanting us removed from their midst so they can be in peace, which only wolves and sheepdogs, and experienced sheep who have been through a wolf attack, know isn't gonna happen.

I choose to just say thanks although I feel a bit uncomfortable when they do and really feel it should be saved for the young active duty sheepdogs doing it now. I don't thank other vets for their service as the camaraderie is enough for most of us. I believe if we don't treat each other like VIPs who will?

So when I read the oft quoted Anonymous saying "For those who have fought for it, freedom has a taste the protected will never know." I don't feel superior. It is just my nature and job. I don't expect wolves to know that feeling, nor sheep. Each has a role. I think the word hero is used a bit much today, but it isn't going to break my day either. It isn't about what is written or said, see, we recognize each other within minutes of meeting. For those unfamiliar with Grossman on sheepdogs here it is:
On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs | The Modern Knight
When we are thanked for being sheepdogs, I will just say thanks. and change the subject graciously. When thanked by fellow vets who were there with me for some action or project we shared I really enjoy it. But I too have no AF license plates or hats or clothes that ID me as a vet. Funny I am 59 now and even grayer than that pic from 5 years ago, and still get told I am military by my bearing some say. I'll take that as a compliment.

[rmmpe]

There is absolutely nothing I could think of or say as good as RV Roadie's post.
Kudos.

[JimmyLeggett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RV Roadie Stan Thanks for posting this! I enjoyed reading it. I just reviewed my post below because it is on topic insofar as understanding the thanks we get. I was a medic during my first 4 years in the AF and served the Vietnam war 71-75 at Barksdale AFB Hospital taking care of our returning vets and bomber base personnel. Our pilots with the mighty 8th AF did rolling thunder and several other missions to bring the war to Hanoi. I Xtrained to med lab tech, but then Xtrained again into Combat Arms back when we were Small Arm Marksmanship Training Unit (SAMTU) later renamed Combat Arms Training and Maintenance or CATM. My last year after a decade falling under Security Police we then became security police in 1997 as the Career fields were combined, and SPs renamed Security Forces as senior enlisted We have some serious Combat Vets and some plain vanilla vets, as well as drafted vets, some who re-enlisted and some who did not. We have officer vets and enlisted vets and W/O vets. We have vets of all races and creeds even all genders. It seems that we do indeed forget, and for some that is a blessing, that we are or have been the protectors. Not of the weak, but of our freedoms in a way most don't understand. I am not being critical of the labels and feelings being applied here because we have to be able to understand something before we can label it. I fully understand those who thank us, and I fully understand those of us who feel uncomfortable about the very public thanks being given to us in recent years. It is for me, indeed, the camaraderie. I think that many folks can tread Lt.Col Grossman's treatise on Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs and come away with an entirely different understanding of what he means. I don't agree with stereotyping civilians all into one group good or bad. I especially don't agree with stereotyping my fellow vets as any simplistic for or against anything, be that a political, personal, or public label to be applied across the board. I read Grossman's treatise and the issues being discussed with such passion and rancor here are perfectly explained. Some read Grossman and come away feeling superior if they served, thinking wrongly that Grossman meant being a sheepdog is a better role than being a sheep! Nothing could be further from the truth. Sheep are what make the world nice and advance our civilization. They have no capacity for violence. They are happy as sheep and sheep has no negative connotations here. Some of us have a capacity for violence and we become either wolves who prey on sheep and the unlucky few sheepdogs who they catch unawares. Those of us in this thread are all sheepdogs. Some by choice, some by chance, in an annual lottery. For me, once I understood my role as a sheepdog, and that the sheep were worth protecting, I had no rancor for them. I also understood why they were fearful of us, and would group together as a mob in fear and protest any attempt to force them to be sheepdogs. The all volunteer force is more sensible because we don't trap competent sheepdogs with sheep on their wings. Some of us go to war and find we are sheepdogs and perfectly suited. Others have a lot of difficulty because they were actually sheep who had to do sheepdog duties and somehow did. I salute you especially. It is easier to do what is in our nature than what goes dead against it. Within our ranks we have those who managed to ratchet themselves up to a job that was beyond them, rose to the task and prevailed. Over themselves. It is the camaraderie. We gather when we see the signs of fellow sheepdogs gathering. We expect some to start some sniffing out who is top dog but now just in fun, most times and places. And we watch out for each other even when we disagree. The bad news, for those who want to be a sheep, is that maybe you can if you were one to begin with and returned with no scars from trying to overcome and run with the dogs. The bad news is that we will never be sheep by and large. If you think you can go out and try to get a sheepdog to run in the herd and ignore the sounds of wolves in their midst, or try to get a sheep to control the herd and protect it from the wolves. We will always have the sheep, good gentle folks who validate our existence by theirs, either saying thanks with trepidation, or fearful and wanting us removed from their midst so they can be in peace, which only wolves and sheepdogs, and experienced sheep who have been through a wolf attack, know isn't gonna happen. I choose to just say thanks although I feel a bit uncomfortable when they do and really feel it should be saved for the young active duty sheepdogs doing it now. I don't thank other vets for their service as the camaraderie is enough for most of us. I believe if we don't treat each other like VIPs who will? So when I read the oft quoted Anonymous saying "For those who have fought for it, freedom has a taste the protected will never know." I don't feel superior. It is just my nature and job. I don't expect wolves to know that feeling, nor sheep. Each has a role. I think the word hero is used a bit much today, but it isn't going to break my day either. It isn't about what is written or said, see, we recognize each other within minutes of meeting. For those unfamiliar with Grossman on sheepdogs here it is: On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs | The Modern Knight When we are thanked for being sheepdogs, I will just say thanks. and change the subject graciously. When thanked by fellow vets who were there with me for some action or project we shared I really enjoy it. But I too have no AF license plates or hats or clothes that ID me as a vet. Funny I am 59 now and even grayer than that pic from 5 years ago, and still get told I am military by my bearing some say. I'll take that as a compliment.

Bravo, I think you said it all!!!

[RV Roadie]

Thanks guys! In every way that can be taken.

[pinebear]

LET FREEDOM RING

Proud of my service to the greatest country on this earth!
RVN 7/65--4/66
BienHoa and Xuan Loc
Doug Sichler

[garym114]

Had to go back and read the first post and get the original thoughts. Even the Major got it wrong.
All returning Vets of that time were treated similarly.

USS Alexander Hamilton SSBN 617
'66 - '72

[CCFROMFL]

Our Cause was Just

[99-Am.Star]

For those of you who have not heard of this, ther is a GREAT website called togeatherweserved.com I am a member there for the last 2 plus years. The buddy locater rocks. Very friendly folks there, and loads of help when you need it. There is onne for each branch ATWS (Army) NTWS (navy). Go to the web site and give them a little info and you can join free for 30 days. After that it costs about $14 for an E-4 and alittle more as the rank goes up.
To all of you on here THANKS FOR YOUR SERVICE.

[BpK9Miami]

First time I've stumbled across this thread and for that I sadly offer my apologies to my fellow vet's. It's interesting the span of opinions and comments contained herein.

Like many of you I enlisted (68) and was not drafted (and "yes" I can still recite my "RA" number after alll these years). My Father (WWII Ranger / Infantry) set an example of Service to the country as an obligation not to be avoided.

My tour was cut short by forgetting that Murphy's Law of Combat really do exist. 18 Months of medical recovery gave me a different type of welcome home them most of you as I had an opportunity to "ease" back into the civilian world through ambulatory trips to places outside the hospital. We were treated as guests, not combatants to be looked down upon or verbaly abused. That came later (much to my surprise).

Like many others, I was caught up in the draw-down of Special Forces personnel during the early 70's and took my DD214 and went home in 72 to rejoin (to borrow a phrase) the herd of sheep in my local hometown. It didn't take long to figure out I had to tone down my tendancy to herd the rest of my follow sheep. . .often without success.

In 1976 I joined other vet's I had severed with in RVN, at a National Guard unit in Texas. At the time we were the round out Brigade for the 82nd Airborne and more then 60% of the personnel were combat vets with service in country. Looking back it's pretty obvious we were all rejoining our pack mates and balancing our regular jobs among that pack of sheep.
It gave us some sense that we had not given up our warrior spirit and allowed us to mingle and talk among ourselves things we had done - in essence a military transition group for lack of a better way to say it. We all learned to be part time sheep, part time warriors as an acceptable lifestyle.

Since then, I've continued to serve, mobilized to Active Duty for every conflict, big or small, in five, yes, 5, decades. My last experiece in OIF (2005) gave me another opportunity to see how our Military Healhcare system takes care of our Wounded, Ill, and Injured service members through an up close and personal point of view. Interestingly, being wounded and a patient is as unpleasant the 2nd & 3rd time around as the first experience. Or as my Father would say "that Purple Heart is not really what you want." Oh, I agree.

Until I was Medically Retired 6 weeks ago I had been in treatment of one type or another since the 2005 incident, yet I've also had to travel on TDY for the Command on frequent occasions. I've had the same experience as many of you of being stopped and having total strangers say "thank you" in some form or fashion. I began to hate traveling in uniform for exactly that reason. But, I accept on behalf of my team mates who are no longer with us, the one's who never came home, and the one's still lost in that far off jungle and mountainous terrain. And, the news ones from the sandbox who did come home, but covered in a flag, not standing proudly among their familes were they should have been.

The exception to that whole "thank you" business, are my fellow RVN vets. If I see them, if I see you, you can bet I'll walk up to say a word, share a moment, and say "welcome home." And in respect, I make it a point to remind the WWII and Korea era vets that they were, and remain, the reason I wore the uniform in the first place.


I for one, never really expected anything more then that. "Welcome Home" was all any of us asked in my opinion.

I took off my uniform an hour after the retirement ceremony, wear no more patches or hats, no decals or T-Shirts. Not because I am ashamed; far from it. I just figure we'll know each other by how we move through the pack of sheep that surround us and natually come to each others aid to simple say a word or back each other up. I'm proud of the fact that we're all still running in the same pack after all these years.

I hope to see you all on the road.