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Old 04-25-2012, 08:46 AM   #1
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Message, Marines - Times changing

As the article states, the FET's are engaged in ground combat on a regular basis in Afghanistan. Times are changing.
===============================================

Source unknown.

The Marine Corps will begin assigning women to newly opened combat jobs this year, conduct research on their physical capabilities, and in the most striking move, open the infantry officer training course to them, the commandant said in a message to all Marines Monday.

The changes are part of a broad effort underway across the armed forces to evaluate the expansion of combat roles for women, and conduct research that could open the last of the ground combat jobs still closed to female service members. The Defense Department said in February that it planned to open some 14,000 jobs to women.

“As Marines, we are all justifiably proud of the valuable contributions our Marines make daily, and want to ensure that equal opportunities to excel exist for all Marines across the Corps,” Gen. James Amos said in the message.

An exception to Defense Department restrictions preventing women from serving in direct ground combat jobs is opening new positions at the battalion level in fields such as artillery, tanks and combat engineers, but not infantry or special operations forces.

All Marines study basic shooting skills, in accordance with the Corps’ motto: “every Marine a rifleman.” As early as this spring, female graduates of basic officer training will be allowed to attend the infantry officer course, but they will not be given infantry jobs afterward during this “research phase,” the commandant stated. The plan is for female enlisted Marines to soon follow them into infantry training.

The Marine Corps Times originally reported the news about infantry officer training opening to female Marines.

“Information collected will provide the fact-based analytical data necessary to formulate my recommendations regarding the potential assignment of female Marines to the (ground combat element) and other closed MOS (military occupational specialties),” Amos said.

Women have officially been allowed to serve in air combat and on warships since the mid-1990s. That was when a companion Pentagon provision spelled out remaining restrictions in 1994, forbidding women “from assignment to units below the brigade level whose primary mission is to engage in direct combat on the ground.”

For more than a year, the armed forces have been reviewing ways to remove remaining “barriers to service” for women in the military. The studies are in response to a congressional mandate and the reality on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan, where women have served in ground combat every day because of the diffuse nature of the conflict and its lack of clear front lines.

The Marine Corps has been in the vanguard of expanding roles for women in combat, despite its macho reputation, emphasis on infantry jobs closed to women, and scarcity of female troops — about six percent, the smallest proportion in the military.

Women assigned to Marine Female Engagement Teams have been walking on foot patrol with infantrymen in Afghanistan for several years, thanks to an administrative sleight of hand that had them “attached” but not formally assigned to infantry units.

The commandant has said that he thought the Corps had stretched the limitations against women in ground combat as far as they could go. The FETs, as the teams are called, were even recalled to rear bases and given time limits on how long they could spend with a particular infantry unit in the field because of objections from Congress.
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:59 AM   #2
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Get over it. The change will seep in slowly but surely. Lots of good web sites concerning women that go with Special Forces. They act as interperters/female body searchers, etc,.

It's the famous camels nose under the tent system. Physical standards are lowered.
In keeping with equal grounds, male infantry physical standards will be lowered also.
The day of running five miles with a forty pound rucksack are disappearing into the sunset.

The Marines in particuliar have lost sight of their mission. The last amphibious attack was in the Korean War at Inchon, and that was a cake walk (unless you were KIA).
Now marines are in the desert, mountains, not a drop of water anywhere.

Why get wet when there are Ospreys to haul you past the "beachhead" ?

Everything changes, Marines are no exception.

Kerry
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:03 PM   #3
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I wonder what will happen when a fingernail gets broken?

JK, I wonder if the strength qualification reduction will have a positive or negative effect. A fire jump team perished because the courts ruled that the women suing on 'discrimination' grounds had a right to pursue her career choice and the strength test was open discrimination.

I again wonder what the families of the six who died as a result of this court decision think about the openness of 'everyone is equal?'
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:01 PM   #4
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Wayne, I will not dispute the claim of who is first here :>. And also on this day in 1898, the 1st Marine Battalion were the first US troops to land in Cuba (armed with the Winchester-Lee M1895 straight pull rifle according to the NRA facebook page) on the opening day of the Spanish-American War.
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Old 04-25-2012, 03:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by two-niner View Post
Get over it.................
Kerry
I dont' have a problem with it, I just posted a quoted item. Many foreign nations have been using women in combat roles. If it is to be, it is to be. Nothing to get over about.
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Old 04-25-2012, 03:29 PM   #6
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Cliff,
Some reading for you:

Taken from: US Marines Birthplace dot com


"First to Fight:
The media in the United States began using this term to describe U.S. Marines during World War I. And, for once the media was right. Marines have served in the vanguard of every American war since the founding of the Corps in 1775. They have carried out over 300 assaults on foreign shores, from the arctic to the tropics. Historically, U.S. Marines are indeed the first to fight."

Semper Fi!
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne M View Post
Cliff,
Some reading for you:

Taken from: US Marines Birthplace dot com


"First to Fight:
The media in the United States began using this term to describe U.S. Marines during World War I. And, for once the media was right. Marines have served in the vanguard of every American war since the founding of the Corps in 1775. They have carried out over 300 assaults on foreign shores, from the arctic to the tropics. Historically, U.S. Marines are indeed the first to fight."

Semper Fi!
Sorry Wayne, but historically that doesn't play out. The website says that the Marines were first to fight in every conflict. The Army is a little easier to track because of the campaign streamers (the Marines have a slightly different system).

However, the first Army streamers are for Lexington and Concord (Apr 19, 1775). What was the first Marine engagement in the Revolution?

Army has the invasion of Canada in 1812 as their first campaign, what was the first engagement by the Marines?

Fort Sumter was an engagement of US and CSA Army personnel.

World War I - Nov 20, 1917 the 11th Eng Regt fought at Cambrai, the Marines fought at Belleau Wood (attached to the Army's 2nd Inf Div) in Jun 1918.

What I will agree with is that the Marines have served honorably where ever they have served, and even though we do a lot of joint operations these days, I hope we never get to the point where the ground forces merge and lose their traditions.
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:38 PM   #8
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Don't care who was 1st, don't care who was second, worked with, fought with some damn fine Marines!
Also convoyed with some damn fine female soldiers, percentage of [moderator edit] was less then the male soldiers. Fingernails and make-up was didn't seem to be a concern to these soldiers, only problems seemed to be the attitude among of some of the male soldiers. I believe that the CORP will be better off in time, no reason to discount 50% of the population.
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:39 PM   #9
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But Cliff, we all won that war.

You guys made a huge boo boo there.
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Old 04-25-2012, 08:59 PM   #10
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I oft times wonder what side the Corps will be on, when the intermission of the civil war is over?
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:42 PM   #11
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Aw! Come on Cliff, the Marine Corps was officially formed on November 10, 1775, almost six months after the April 19, 1775 date. Cut me some slack.

So, it is as stated here, History dot com

1812 saw the Marines defending Frigates as their primary duty, and the did it well.

The 5th Regiment of Marines had landed in France with the first expedition of American troops in June 1917. Surely there were some types of conflicts between 1917 and 1918 at The Woods?

Here is some other Marine History

There were 3900 marines at Fort Sumter.

Isn't history wonderful?
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:03 PM   #12
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Wayne, I am proud of the Marines, my second born was attached to a Marine division during the Iraq invasion (he is Army Psyops). I don't disagree that they have fought in every conflict we have had, the only dispute I have is the "first to fight" part. Thanks for the link, there were some interesting posts there. The History.com does say that in most cases they were the first to fight, but from what I saw of official historical records, in early wars they were mostly attached to Army units when they fought as straight ground forces.

The one disappointment I had yesterday when looking up the history was with the official USMC website. Even the official history page had very little information on the Corps history before WWI. Wish all the services would make that history more available on their official sites. I
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Old 04-26-2012, 08:25 PM   #13
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History? We dont need no stinking history, we come to fight !!!!!!!!
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Old 04-26-2012, 08:45 PM   #14
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I want to post on this also ,, but i have no military of any kind ,, but my dad served in ww2 with the 1st and 3rd marine division ,, but also he told me of W.A.S.P ,, that served during that time ,, i am not trying to start anything ,, just saying
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