USMC Customs and Traditions

[Wayne M]

There was a recent post concerning the "law" regarding saluting out of uniform. Here is a clarification for Marines from the Commandant of the Marine Corps:

Customs & Traditions

Or you can search for:

R 161950Z Dec 08
UNCLASSIFIED//
ALMAR 052/08

Paragraph 3 applies.

The bottom line: Marines do not salute if they are not in the proper uniform. The wearing of a cover when in civilian attire is "not in uniform."

Semper Fi!

[CorsairIIAT]

Wayne,

Not to create controversy. But I wonder when the Commandant outranks the Congress and President? I have met a couple of Commandants and breifed one on a program I worked. I even scared the crap out of some Airdale Marines when they did something I told them not to do. Because before I went to Yuma I was breifing the Commandant. And the Commandant has his eyes on this detachment. My son and I attend a lot of minor league baseball games and I salute.

[mick]

corsair , there is no controversy.

As a Marine, it is my intent to follow the orders of our Commandant, Period, and until Congress DEMANDS or passes a LAW, that states Marines MUST do as they say, I will follow the orders of my commandant, even though I am not active, but yet still consider myself a Marine.

[Wayne M]

Corsair,

I report to the Commandant through the chain of command. An order is an order. It may be considered by some as not a proper order, but I don't think I would want the wrath of my superiors, or peers. Now, with that said:

Back in my early days, I was aware of a Naval regulation that stated when covered, salute. I don't know the exact words, but i was at VMAQ-2 and one day I was walking to my car in civilian clothes and a baseball cap. The CO, (Wonderful CO, LtCol Tim Fallon) was approaching and I saluted. He stopped to talk to me and stated that not many knew that a salute could be rendered when wearing civilian clothing, and covered.

I wish I could find that old regulation. For years I saluted with a cover on when in civilian clothes and I never got put down for it.

However, the Commandant has spoken.

[1ciderdog]

Wayne
Thanks for the clarification - I'll stick with the tradition.
Semper Fi
Bob

[mick]

This from the LEADER , commonly cause the commandant, of the U.S. MARINE CORPS.

SALUTING. A RECENT CHANGE TO THE LAW HAS AUTHORIZED ACTIVE DUTY
AND RETIRED SERVICEMEMBERS TO SALUTE THE NATIONAL COLORS, WHETHER
COVERED OR UNCOVERED, INDOORS OR OUT.***** BY CUSTOM AND TRADITION,
MARINES ***DO NOT RENDER THE HAND SALUTE WHEN OUT OF UNIFORM OR WHEN
UNCOVERED*****. LET THERE BE NO CONFUSION; THAT HAS NOT CHANGED.

DURING
THE PLAYING OF THE NATIONAL ANTHEM, OR THE RAISING, LOWERING, OR
PASSING OF THE NATIONAL FLAG, MARINES WILL CONTINUE TO FOLLOW NAVAL
TRADITIONS AND THE POLICY / PROCEDURES CONTAINED IN REFERENCE (A).(
ALMAR 052/08)
SPECIFICALLY, MARINES NOT IN UNIFORM WILL FACE THE FLAG, STAND AT
ATTENTION, AND PLACE THE RIGHT HAND OVER THE HEART. IF COVERED,
MARINES NOT IN UNIFORM WILL REMOVE THEIR HEADGEAR WITH THE RIGHT
HAND AND PLACE THEIR RIGHT HAND OVER THEIR HEART.

WHEN THE FLAG IS
NOT PRESENT, MARINES WILL ACT IN THE SAME MANNER WHILE FACING IN THE
DIRECTION OF THE MUSIC. IN CASES SUCH AS INDOOR CEREMONIES, WHEN
MARINES ARE IN UNIFORM AND UNCOVERED, THEY WILL FACE THE FLAG, OR
THE DIRECTION OF THE MUSIC WHEN THE FLAG IS NOT PRESENT, AND STAND
AT ATTENTION.

The questions arise when one who is seperated from the Corps, (ie: not on the payroll) such as former Marines not retired, are considered civilians and no longer have to honor the tradition of the Corps. Retired or active duty MUST adhere to this order.

Fornuately in America, we get to make that choice, but many of us non active duty Marines, will never be a civilian again, after the Corps. We will always be a Marine .

God bless America and all it's military personnel.

[tncruiser]

while i respect all you Marines I will salute the flag when appropriate as that honor has been awarded to all current and former US military (in good standing). i am an American and a veteran by choice and take both very seriously .
brianj
rvn apr 67-nov68

[W4RLR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mick The questions arise when one who is seperated from the Corps, (ie: not on the payroll) such as former Marines not retired, are considered civilians and no longer have to honor the tradition of the Corps. Retired or active duty MUST adhere to this order. God bless America and all it's military personnel.

A lot of people who never wore the uniform don't realize that retired military people are STILL in the military, only they are on the retired list, and subject to recall by the Secretary of their respective service.

I for one am pleased and honored when the active duty people that I meet while on base address me by my rank. It is a courtesy that acknowledges the contributions of the retired force that they made while active, and continue to make as a retired military member.

God bless every soldier, sailor, airman, and Marine, especially those who are now in harm's way.

[mick]

Make no mistake, you have deserved and should be honored for this:

" i am an American and a veteran by choice and take both very seriously .
brianj
rvn apr 67-nov68 "

Thank you sir !

[Bob/Becky D - VA]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rray32539 A lot of people who never wore the uniform don't realize that retired military people are STILL in the military, only they are on the retired list, and subject to recall by the Secretary of their respective service. I for one am pleased and honored when the active duty people that I meet while on base address me by my rank. It is a courtesy that acknowledges the contributions of the retired force that they made while active, and continue to make as a retired military member. God bless every soldier, sailor, airman, and Marine, especially those who are now in harm's way.

Will probably start a sh** storm, but if memory is not totally gone, officers are subject to recall for life. However, enlisted are only subject for recall up to 30 years of combined service. As an example, I had a little over 20yrs active and was transferred to the Fleet Marine Corps Reserve until I hit the 30 year mark, at which point I was transferred to the retired list and not subject to recall. During the period I was in the FMCR I received "retainer" pay. After 30 I recieve retired pay. This tired old body would go back in at a New York minute if they'd have me and I felt I could contribute.

Wayne: Have fond memories of serving with Fallon as well.

Bob

[Wayne M]

There are no former Marines, no retired Marines, just Marines. "Once a Marine, Always a Marine."

Bob is correct on the recall aspect though.

And TNCruser is correct for his branch of service. He may do as their regulations permit.

Marines do no salute unless in uniform.

I wish we could. Our salutes are much more "snappy."

Bob, Col. Tim Fallon passed into the Lords hands several years ago. His wife has also passed. Tim Jr., is a pilot for some airline, or so I heard. Col. Fallon left Q-2 and went to Okinawa as the 3rd MAW G2. I went to Okinawa as the SISB Chief and he was my boss again. It was great. We'll have to sit down and discuss old times at a CG somewhere.

[Ray,IN]

I believe that law states "may render the hand salute"___. It does not preclude the Commandant (any branch) from making his own orders.

[Wayne M]

United States Marine Corps Traditions shall win this argument.

You only have to be a Marine to understand that statement.

[w6pea]

OORAH it's a Marine Thing !
Semper Fi