Rules don't apply

[Camp_Woof]

<It's pretty simple if you are concerned about your dogs "rights" then only take him places where you don't need to worry about leash laws>

Oh, so if I think a law in unfair, tough? The back of the bus is going to the same place as the front, so why change?

This is the United States, right? Is it okay to advocate for change? Complaining is absurd? That's why the city of mountain view changed RULES to allow off-leash dogs early in the morning last year?

That's how dog owners accomplished this story below? Note the area has "long been a popular place to run dogs off leashes.

Obviously complaining is not that absurd now, is it.

"Off-leash areas designated in Round Valley, part of library field

Jay Hamburger THE PARK RECORD
POSTED: 01/08/2016 04:35:23 PM MST

The Park City Council on Thursday decided to turn half of the library field into an off-leash area. The field has long been a popular place to run dogs off leashes.

[ctbruce]

Originally Posted by Camp_Woof

<It's pretty simple if you are concerned about your dogs "rights" then only take him places where you don't need to worry about leash laws>

Oh, so if I think a law in unfair, tough? The back of the bus is going to the same place as the front, so why change?

This is the United States, right? Is it okay to advocate for change? Complaining is absurd? That's why the city of mountain view changed RULES to allow off-leash dogs early in the morning last year?

That's how dog owners accomplished this story below? Note the area has "long been a popular place to run dogs off leashes.

Obviously complaining is not that absurd now, is it.

"Off-leash areas designated in Round Valley, part of library field

Jay Hamburger THE PARK RECORD
POSTED: 01/08/2016 04:35:23 PM MST

The Park City Council on Thursday decided to turn half of the library field into an off-leash area. The field has long been a popular place to run dogs off leashes.

I'm a little confused? So letting part of a field by the library be set aside is the first step to having dogs off leash all the time everywhere?

Not sure how this logic relates to camping....I did ask my dog what he thought about this. Still waiting on an answer from him...

[Hit_the_Rhod]

Originally Posted by ctbruce

I'm a little confused? So letting part of a field by the library be set aside is the first step to having dogs off leash all the time everywhere?

Not sure how this logic relates to camping....I did ask my dog what he thought about this. Still waiting on an answer from him...

[trimacon]

Originally Posted by dexters

I doubt you will ever change your position. Your will find some excuse to support your position. You look at the situation through your eyes and not the eyes of others.

When you see the issue through the eyes of the non dog owner who are forced to interact with your dog because it is off the leash you might understand where you are wrong.

Thank you. Agree completely.

[sharonlb]

This is precisely why we don't have a dog right now.
I retired as a professional trainer after 27 years of dealing with "other people's precious". I have the patience of a saint if you are willing to learn and obey a few simple rules. That's way too much trouble for others to do sometimes.

We traveled and camped with a 36' toy box and 3 large Standard Poodles, one of which was an obedience champion and therapy dog. I used one leash, with a coupling snap that hooked to 3 separate collars sometimes, but normally they wore separate leashes. Let me tell ya, I can't count the amount of times people thought nothing of allowing their off leash dog come running up to us....which was no problem for the 2 girls but the huge male I had thought it was HIS business to protect the women on his flank, lol.
I can laugh at it now, but at the time it wasn't funny at all because it was all I could do to keep him from having the offending stranger for lunch~on leash~with 2 girls who want to say "HOWDY friend"!

However, I cautiously sometimes let them go...if an empty field for exercise presented itself. See, these large but agile dogs need to exercise, and their poor aging owner became unable to "run with the pack" anymore. Enter a contraption called a "Chuck-it"....long object that can launch a tennis ball further than the human eye is capable of following. Wonderful invention for a tennis-ball-freaks like my poo's were. There's no training substitute for a good and tired dog. Especially large ones that had to be cooped up in the back seat of an F-350
We had those dogs for 17, 7 (she died of stomach cancer) and 13 years.
10 of those years, we traveled with them, until their deaths.
Never, did anyone have a complaint against them.

So I can see both sides of the coin. Still, it's a no brainer for the most part.
What most don't understand, is that a campgrounds insurance dictates what their dog policy will be. I happen to adore Pit Bulls, and I know they are some of the sweetest, docile, and friendly dogs there can be if they're socialized and treated well. Still, just about every insurance policy around dictates exclusions for these and other large guarding breeds. Therefore, almost all campgrounds won't allow those in their gates. It's because of their insurance, probably 95% of the time.
So the ones that still allow everyone's "precious", MUST have a leash policy strictly enforced, or they could find themselves out of business because of too many inconsiderate owners disregarding the rules.
Just keep them on a leash. It's not hard, and I don't care how frustrating it can be, but ALL dogs will learn to accept a leash if acclamation to it is done properly. There's also ways to train them ON leash, if they won't relieve themselves on one. It takes time and dedication, and a good dose of consistency.

[TXiceman]

Originally Posted by ralph0808

Why do people with dogs off the leash always think that the rules don't apply to them?


Ralph 2005 Alpine 40FDQS

Thanks

These are the same people that feel, that they can park on the grass, throw our beer cans, cigarette butts and so on. They feel that they are privileged.

Ken

[LynnD]

Originally Posted by Mike and Cha

It's pretty simple if you are concerned about your dogs "rights" then only take him places where you don't need to worry about leash laws, or anything else that may affect his "rights". It is up to the Owner of each dog to provide the dog it's "rights", not the rest of the general publics or the dog. It's not like the dog can pick and choose where it goes, it's still an Animal controlled by a Human. So to complain about leash laws is absurd, you have a choice where you take him, but not a choice to change the rules just because it works for you. People have rights too, pretty soon we are going to be so worried who's rights we need to protect that nobody will have any rights as everybody will just do as they please no matter what the rules or consequences are.

Two years ago I heard a commotion in my backyard, I was horrified when I saw two dogs ripping a groundhog into pieces. I sent them on the way, but I knew where they belonged and drove to their home. I calmly explained that if they every returned to my property that only one would return. That is MY right. I love dogs in fact, I rescue animals (wild and domestic), but if a dog attacked one of my pets, or comes on to my property unleashed and causes harm, I will not consider that dog's rights.

[alexb2000]

I registered to comment as I am shopping for an RV expressly because I want to be able to travel and take my two labs.

I have spent A LOT of time and thousands of dollars to train them as well as a dog can be trained. I work with them everyday and take them most places with me even if they just stay in the truck.

Here is my .02 about the leash law discussion:

I agree with the other poster, big dogs NEED exercise beyond what a slow walking human can provide. Not getting this exercise leads to all kinds of bigger problems with large dogs bread for hunting/protection that are being treated like a Pomeranian. That said, I don't believe for a second that a crowded campground is the place. However leash lawing an entire national forest, every hiking trail, every open field, is a gross lawyer driven over reaction IMO and leads to people ignoring "the rules".

Leashes…. where to start. If you feel your child is safe from a large powerful dog because the owner has them on a leash, think again. No offense, but I cannot stop my dogs with a standard leash/collar if they really wanted to do something (they are only 75lbs and I am 6'2"/220). Dogs are solid muscle, with a low center of gravity, great traction, and strong often well protected necks. I would MUCH rather see a well trained dog walking in a heal off leash than a 110lb woman with a 30' reel leash being pulled all over by a large untrained protection breed dog, rules or not.

I use two kinds of leashes, always one and sometimes both. First electronic, I can deliver a shock that will stop either of them mid-stride if required. Holding the correction button down would be like a cattle prod to your nether regions, it will not be ignored. People can't SEE this kind of leash even with the neon orange collars or the controller hanging around my neck, so they like to remind me constantly about "leash laws". Second I use pinch collars with traditional leather leashes in crowded places like an RV park. These will also always give me control. Then I get a lot of people stopping to tell me how abusive I am for using such collars. Ironically, since training as puppies, I never have to use these tools they are there just incase. This like many things isn't about what works, its what people "perceive".

I am certainly aware that I am making the decision to have dogs not those around me so my dogs are always right beside me, QUIET, and any mess is throughly cleaned up. However, if I am out hiking, or someplace with no one around they are free to run and play even if posted otherwise. If I see someone coming I call them back and leash them until they pass. That's the best I can do short of buying a large high fenced tract of land that they are not allowed to leave.

To those that cast blanket dispersions about dog people being "special" they should look in the mirror first. Ask yourself if you ever go over the speed limit, rip the tag off a mattress, jay walk, forget to wear a seat belt, have a cute grandchild that screams for an hour straight if they don't want to be in a restaurant, etc?

Were all making rationalizations about something so I try a take a live and let live attitude.

[sharonlb]

I get you Alex. I'm the one who posted about people traveling with their "precious".

I agree with you too, but I think me and others were referring to campgrounds, speaking for myself I know that's true anyway.
I also said I'd allow mine off leash if it was well away from activity because yea....larger, agile dogs need more exercise.
I understand about E-collars too, and I have no problem with them whatsoever. Most people don't know enough about what they're opposed to regarding training devices anyway. Either way though, E-collars are not normally included, or should I say excluded, in leash laws. Technically, they aren't a leash. While I understand completely your dog(s) may stop in their tracks, they do not do that to every dog. You can still get a ticket for it or be asked to leave for not complying by a campground.

[dea49]

Originally Posted by DrDaveMA

Properly trained dogs don't have problems.

I have been to 6 incidents over 34 years where a Pit who attacked and when asked why the dog wasn't under control the owner said virtually the same thing.

No matter what anyone thinks of it, if there is a leash law or rule, follow it. No one has a right to pick and choose which ones to follow.

[DrDaveMA]

Yes, there are some breads that have more issues than others. Most any dog if not properly trained can/will have issues. But then if you watch the evening news in most cities you will see more than 6 shootings in a week, so 6 dog attacks in 34 years is not to large a number unless you are the one attacked. Have you ever walked your leased dog in a CG and had some belligerent dog come charging out of their site, leased/chained or not, it happens all the time. The key is training. Get your dog properly trained, keep them leased when required, let them run when you can and always pick up after them.

[bobf46]

I can see both sides and of course my dog is special and does not need a leash. HOWEVER if the rule is for dogs to be on a leash my dog is on a leash. Most non dog owners don't have a dog for many reasons like my neighbor across the street is actually afraid of dogs and some people just don't like dogs. This has to be respected and it does not matter how special you and your dog are. Rules is rules!

[oakcreekeric]

I'm subscribed to this thread and had to laugh... I had the luxury of being next to a camper this weekend that had 3 pugs and 3 boxer looking dogs.. yes, 6 dogs in the campsite directly next to me... they barked at EVERYTHING that walked, flew or drove by...

I especially like the barking at 5:00am... lovely...

So, if we're working on fixing the world on dog leashes... can we also fix the world of barking dogs at 5:00am right outside your bedroom window ???

[davendeb]

My dog stays on leash for more than one reason. Mostly because she doesn't know how quick she can become a chew toy to another horse-sized dog in the park. She thinks everyone, and every dog is there for her to play with.