Community Forums

henderson · 08-13-2012, 09:34 AM

Lately I've run across more folks that have not socialized dogs in the camp grounds. They run from fearful to aggressive. Why do folks bring unsocialized dogs into an atmosphere where that have to interact with people and other dogs? I'll walk past a site and the dogs go crazy, barking , growling an d generally making a fuss. Are people that clueless regarding dog training?

RanCarr · 08-13-2012, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henderson

Lately I've run across more folks that have not socialized dogs in the camp grounds. They run from fearful to aggressive. Why do folks bring unsocialized dogs into an atmosphere where that have to interact with people and other dogs? I'll walk past a site and the dogs go crazy, barking , growling an d generally making a fuss. Are people that clueless regarding dog training?

It may not be training. Dogs bred in puppy mills are usually so inbred they're neurotic, fearful, vicious, fear biters and worse. Many are sick with genetic problems. As long as people buy pups from these puppy mills there will be "crazy dogs" socialized or not.

After the attack on a woman by a Pit Bull running lose at Tim's Ford in TN, we wont be going back there unless they change their policy on dogs.

henderson · 08-13-2012, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RanCarr

It may not be training. Dogs bred in puppy mills are usually so inbred they're neurotic, fearful, vicious, fear biters and worse. Many are sick with genetic problems. As long as people buy pups from these puppy mills there will be "crazy dogs" socialized or not.

After the attack on a woman by a Pit Bull running lose at Tim's Ford in TN, we wont be going back there unless they change their policy on dogs.

Can't dispute puppy mill dogs have the odds stacked against them, but there are too many dogs in campgrounds that the owners just have not socialized. Why have a dog if you can't take it somewhere and let it have fun with other dogs. Dogs are pack animals, happiest in groups, having a solitary dog is cruel.

Gadget63 · 08-13-2012, 11:10 AM

Actually our dog doesn't like strangers and that's the way we like it. He is kept in the MH and always walked on a leash. People who walk up to our MH are greeted with lots of barking and snarling and quite frankly that's what we want in a dog. If we invite the person into our home or camping area, we introduce them to our dog then once he realizes the people aren't a threat, he behaves like a puppy around them. A dog is not only companionship but should also provide protection against intruders and act as an alarm.

Wayne M · 08-13-2012, 11:15 AM

Our "puppy" was socialized. She's a Husky. We picked her up in an SPCA when she was 8 weeks old. We eventually spent some good money on socializing and training. Up until she was 18 months old she would walk up to other dogs, sniff, do the round-a-bouts, and play. Then one day when we were walking through an RV Park, an unleashed, untethered rat dog Chihuahua came running out at her and physically attacked her. Fortunately I had her by the collar so she didn't toss the little rat around like a fluffy toy. Ever since then, any dog that approaches us is fare game and she will bristle up when they are within 5 feet or so. Any owner walking their dog is warned by me that she is not friendly towards other dogs. If the other owner stays on their side of the street I can put her in "Heel" mode and she will just glance there way as we pass. Any dog that walks in front of our MH will only be greeted by a stare from her inside the window. Any dog tethered in a site, barking their head off, will only be stared at by her. But no dog can approach her.

Humans - that's another story and she loves to greet humans. A human in our MH will have toys dropped at their feet.

So what category would you put her in? Fearful? Aggressive? I put her in the "Protective" category and all because of that Chihuahua.

450Donn · 08-13-2012, 11:27 AM

Our rescue lab will bark and at the same time his tail is waggling like crazy. Sort of annoying, but he is always Lab friendly toward others.

Chuck 1935 · 08-13-2012, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henderson

Can't dispute puppy mill dogs have the odds stacked against them, but there are too many dogs in campgrounds that the owners just have not socialized. Why have a dog if you can't take it somewhere and let it have fun with other dogs. Dogs are pack animals, happiest in groups, having a solitary dog is cruel.

WHAT ? Might want to rethink that one !!

Sky_Boss · 08-13-2012, 12:06 PM

Bless the OP's intent but I believe this is a well intentioned but still is a case of over-generalization. Consider this...based on some of the responses I have seen against dogs I could be the one that has become less social. LOL

Dogs are pretty smart and can pick up on owner behavior. If an owner is constantly (figuratively and literally speaking) yanking a dog's chain for barking or just being a dog, they will often develop "anti-social anxieties. In effect, owners can unintentionally de-socialize (I just made up that word) the dog.

As an example, how many times have you or have you seen another owner pull the collar on a dog greeting another dog with a butt sniff? That is normal social behavior for the dog so why are owners doing it? Well, too often owners want dogs to behave more like humans. So, when they do this the dog says...OH NO! They learn to associate normal sniffing actions as being bad behavior and when another dog does it, they can get all whacked out.

Different dog breeds have unique tendencies. Some dogs are highly open to human socialization while others aren't Some dogs are mellow and others run full speed all the time. Too often people just don't understand these subtle things. I have GSDs and they are very social animals but they are not overtly friendly and will exhibit an appropriate level of territorial protective instinct. Like a previous poster said, this is what we like. OTOH, when we walk them in a CG everyone admires them if they approach us in a proper manner, they will be given the classic GSD, "I see you but I don't want you to know I am watching you." treatment. After a few greetings they will demand you play ball with them. They will normally ignore dogs tied out or only need a little corrective leash control to do so. Rarely do they return the challenge an on even rarer occurrences will they vocalize.

My point is that I know my dogs. I know what they like and don't like. I know when they are in a mood to meet others and read signals when they don't like something. I also know when to tell others to respect their distance. This is all part of socializing them and at the same time helping others better socialize with my GSDs.

To another point made regarding dogs being pack animals. TRUE. Still...that is not strictly based on dogs only. In our case we have had 2 GSDs all of the time because we work during the day and we felt that having "play mates" was good for them. However...owners should recognize they are part of a pack. They can even be enough pack for a single dog. In my pack of dogs (not counting DW LOL) I am alpha...PERIOD. That is made clear very early when each of our GSDs was brought into our world. Each GSD has been trained to at least CGC or further. By doing that we re-enforce pack hierarchy. Sandee has to practice being ALPHA but for the most part, they do not give her any back talk. (I'm better trained than that. LOL)

So...long story short...people do need to expose and socialize dogs to normal environments. People have to respect that not all dogs are social to strangers and simply accept that as being normal. Of course, there are clearly dogs that are not trustworthy to be near...just like some of the golf cart drivers I have seen at CGs after a few too many cans of beer.

Socializing is a 2 way street.

henderson · 08-13-2012, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gadget63

Actually our dog doesn't like strangers and that's the way we like it. He is kept in the MH and always walked on a leash. People who walk up to our MH are greeted with lots of barking and snarling and quite frankly that's what we want in a dog. If we invite the person into our home or camping area, we introduce them to our dog then once he realizes the people aren't a threat, he behaves like a puppy around them. A dog is not only companionship but should also provide protection against intruders and act as an alarm.

I'll be blunt, you should not take that dog to a campground, the possibility of a young child walking up to to a dog that is not socialized, and getting bitten is to great Children see a dog and think what a pretty dog, walk up and what happens next depends on the responsibility of the owner. If you feel you need a protection dog in a campground maybe you should Boondock.

henderson · 08-13-2012, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck 1935

WHAT ? Might want to rethink that one !!

Chuck I'm not saying that owning 1 dog is wrong, but they should have the opportunity to meet other dogs and people.

Sky_Boss · 08-13-2012, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henderson

I'll be blunt, you should not take that dog to a campground, the possibility of a young child walking up to to a dog that is not socialized, and getting bitten is to great Children see a dog and think what a pretty dog, walk up and what happens next depends on the responsibility of the owner. If you feel you need a protection dog in a campground maybe you should Boondock.

I think you missed something, she/he said the dog was INSIDE the RV or on a leash. We also have our GSDs for protection and while we want to learn more about boondocking, it isn't simply because of our GSDs. It is a bit idealistic to say that CGs do not have people in them that won't ever harm you. I like my odds but...

BTW, folks that think their dog is well socialized sometimes are the worst danger to the whole situation because of unrealistic expectations. Yesterday I took my 2 GSDs for a walk in my CG when someone's "real nice" dog came out of no where...obviously no leash. It came out yipping and yapping. Needless to say, that poor fellow found itself staring into the eyes of my guys who also were quite surprised. Fortunately I keep a rather tight reign on my dogs for just such unexpected moments while I am deep in a CG. The owner heard the commotion and ran out to get it saying the dog never does that...ya right. LOL

Maybe they should be forced to boondock?

SVTotem · 08-13-2012, 04:19 PM

Help a novice. What are GSDs and what is a CDG level of training?

Sky_Boss · 08-13-2012, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVTotem

Help a novice. What are GSDs and what is a CDG level of training?

No problem...I sometimes do too many abbreviations

GSD - German Shepherd Dog
CGC - Canine Good Citizen Certificate

Gadget63 · 08-13-2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henderson

I'll be blunt, you should not take that dog to a campground, the possibility of a young child walking up to to a dog that is not socialized, and getting bitten is to great Children see a dog and think what a pretty dog, walk up and what happens next depends on the responsibility of the owner. If you feel you need a protection dog in a campground maybe you should Boondock.

You reminded me of a story that happened a few years back with our dog. We were getting our car washed and had our dog on a very short leash sitting next to us while we waited for our car. This elderly man approached and said what a pretty dog. we repeatedly warned him that our dog doesn't like strangers and snaps but he insisted all dogs love him and reached for our dog who sure as fire snapped at him. the gent politely walked away after we told him... told ya so.
Again I reiterate, our dog doesn't wander, is always leashed when outside but is usually inside our MH. If a person is warned yet still approaches, then what happens next is the responsibility of that person.