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Old 02-04-2015, 06:48 AM   #57
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There is a TV commercial just now where I would guess the author is in fact a dog owner (Ceasers dog food)

It opens with a dog entering a house via a dog door, he is about 2 sizes too big (makes it but it's not easy)

Then shows a very large dog looking at the very small (relative) basket on a bicycle thinking like Toto in Wizard of Oz riding in Dorothy's basket.

Then a 3rd dog trying to climb into a lady's purse that is about 1/10th his size.

The moral.. To a dog, all dog's are EXACTLY the same size.. Thus the big breeds (Like the Malamute, one of the restricted breeds, camped next to me. Being the biggest dog in the park, was an absolute ***** cat,, Where as the little ankle biters.... Far more likely to bite you, or me.

There are not bad dogs.. however there are a lot of bad owners out there who train their dogs to be agressive, and there are lots of mean brats (2 legged) who will torment the poor animal till the animal is forced to defend,, Alas, not always against the proper brat.
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Old 02-04-2015, 01:10 PM   #58
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Big Dogs

I would like to add some information...and a couple links to this discussion.

I have owned, shown and competed in AKC performance events with my Rottweilers for the last 20 years. You can't do events like herding, tracking, carting, obedience and conformation successfully, unless your dog is trained, socialized and stable.

I do not agree with the theories behind breed bans of any kind. Dogs should be evaluated at face value...blanket bans by RV parks, military bases, insurance companies and others are not effective. Breed Specific Legislations in many areas of the country have been overturned because they have proven to be ineffective in the reduction of dog bites. Interesting that the AFB list does not include the Malinois. These are wonderful, high energy and certainly protective dogs...much like several breeds on the list. Guess they can't very well ban a dog they like to use...

What does reduce the incidence of dog aggression is training, testing and above all...responsible dog ownership.

The American Temperament Test Society has Temperament Tests all over the country, every year. I will include a few links to their site. Responsible owners bring their dogs to these tests to see what kind of personalities and maybe weaknesses their dogs will display in various settings. Take a look at the link for the test itself to see the 8 stations that the dog has to go through. It is very comprehensive and covers many areas that put our dogs into situations that are uncomfortable for them. It is not about the owner or handler...they can do no corrections of any kind. If the dog is overly gregarious when meeting the "friendly stranger"...and jumps up to give them a big kiss...the dog won't fail but the owner will probably be counseled on teaching polite behavior at the end of the test.

About Canine Temperament | American Temperament Test Society, Inc.

ATTS Breed Statistics | American Temperament Test Society, Inc.

Different breeds will be expected to behave according to their traits. The lovable Lab might not be expected to show the protectiveness with the "aggressive stranger" at the last station that the Rottweiler, Malinois or GSD should show. If the Lab wants to stand behind the owner and peek around...that will probably be ok. If the Rottie does that, it might show that it is too fearful...their nature or "job", is to go right out to the end of the lead and stare the guy down. The test is done by peope who know what the different breeds should do in certain situations. Abnormal fearfulness is going to fail any dog and for good reason...most dog bites are a result of a fearful dog.

Also, notice how many of us who own these targeted breeds have had our dogs tested. Take note at the fact that almost every breed on the "list" for the AFB passes with better than 80% pass rates.

I welcome any RV Park owner asking to meet my dog...I understand the problems with insurance only too well...I trust my girl and know she is well trained. I have had some park owners tell me it is not about their insurance...it is about other RV'rs pressuring them to exclude these breeds.

I was walking Moxie, a 9 year Rottweiler through a park one day...I am usually well aware of my surroundings...so I saw the little 6 or 7 pound Dervish who came running down the RV space driveway towards us...the tether she was on was about 5 feet longer than the driveway, which put her in the middle of the road. My girl was in the "heel" position, on a lead...as all dogs in public should be...so I walked her to the other side of the road, out of reach of the little terror. Moxie could have pulled towards the dog...would have been a natural thing for her to do but she did not because I saw the little dog in time to tell her "leave it". She did. If Moxie had barked at the little dog, want to guess which one would have been called "aggressive"...

One more example: Last year we were at the Mystic RV Park in Mnpls. Great place, clean as a whistle but the spaces are pretty close together. No problem...but that put the RV next to us pretty close. Our driver side windows were right next to each other and every time I went near the cockpit area, a little herd of 3 or 4 very small (4 to 5 pounders), yapping, snarling and to my horror, diapered dogs were on the dash of the RV next door. Even with the windows closed, you could hear them...practically the entire 16 hours we were there. It was so ridiculous that Moxie stopped grumbling when they were barking. I guess she got bored and believe me, she is a normal dog...if there is one barking outside HER RV...she will answer.

Give the big guys and gals a chance. The rules for my Rottweilers must also be the rules for any other dogs...remember, the top biters in the last several years have been small breeds...it is not the size of the dog...it is the training. A small dog jumping on my legs is every bit as annoying as a big dog jumping at my chest.

Pick up after your dogs! Train your dogs, be a responsible pet owner and we can all have happy days RVing.

Thanks for your time...

Bernie and Moxie
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Old 02-04-2015, 01:28 PM   #59
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Old 02-04-2015, 02:01 PM   #60
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Or simply ask Judge Judy!

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You really use Judge Judy as a reference in an argument ?? LOL

We've travelled all over the US and Mexico with our dog that some might consider to have pit bull mix characteristics (big head with a beautiful smile, muscular body) and our cocker spaniel. The cocker spaniel is far more likely to be a problem. We never let them off lead in a park. We've never been refused or turned away from an RV park.

Unfortunately due to breed discrimination we've had to take precautions in other circumstances. Homeowners insurance is the biggest issue. We found our pup on the street 10 years ago and no one could really say what she was. Our vet put "basset mix" on her paperwork because she was small and her legs are a bit short
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Old 02-04-2015, 07:21 PM   #61
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I was Director Of Adoptions for a large sanctuary, I specialized in aggressive dog reprogramming. Went on raids with Vice Squads to seize dogs after they broke up fighting rings. Performmed assessments for the court system to determine if dogs involved in bite cases were able to be rehabilitated or needed destroyed. I have been bite more times then I can remember or count(not including toy breeds). There is so much misinformation, and prejudice in this thread it is mind boggling. 95% of dog problems are caused by people, be it a flat out attack, the unruly dog that won't stop barking, or the nasty neighbor whose dog shits everywhere and they do not clean it. That's not saying some dogs aren't just bad apples, just like people some dogs just aren't wired right. I have seen those issues in all breeds usually Hollywood makes a dog movie, a certain breed becomes popular. Then irresponsible breeders flood the world with line breeding, or flat out inbreeding. Do you know how many times I have been bite by a inbred Jack Russell Terrier thanks to My Dog Skip? My most difficult case I dealt with was a deaf Dalmation born shortly after Disney brought back 101 Dalmations.

This talk of packing up camp, and leaving because someone pulls in with a breed perceived to be aggressive is LUNACY. For over 2 years on Saturday mornings I hosted a class for people with fear of dogs, it was a very rewarding experience helping others conquer fears. The majority of those who I worked with adopted dogs from me.

The aggressive dog list people speak of was born by litigation, and fear. I will leave you with this, the majority of the time I was called to work with an aggressive dog it was the human I trained. The dog had trained them nicely, and with a growl or baring of teeth could get the human to do whatever they wanted.
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Old 02-05-2015, 10:39 AM   #62
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Well said Finryan...

I remember after the original movie, "101 Dalmations" came out, Dals were one of the most popular breeds in the country. They were presumed to be the perfect puppy for little kids and as many found out, they really were not known to be the most "tolerant" breed with toddlers. The shelters were flooded with Dals.

Responsible breeders tell prospective owners what the breed shortcomings are...any breed...but pet shops (never buy a puppy from a pet shop...good breeders never sell to pet shops) and newspaper ads sell to whoever has the money.

If you want a pure bred dog...but don't want to spend the money....please go to your local shelter and rescue. Sometimes it takes time to find what you are looking for...don't rush it...or you can call the local breed club and find out about their breed-rescue.

If you just want a lovable dog...GO TO A SHELTER...these dogs are vetted, almost to the extreme for any idiosyncracies. The breed club rescue groups are very careful when they place a dog because they do not want the dog to ever be returned to a rescue. Be prepared to answer a lot of questions. They are also a little higher than a public shelter because they are run by non-profits and they have shoestring budgets.

We look for "forever homes" for these guys that get turned back because sometimes, the only thing many of them did wrong was to grow into the adult dog that the un-informed puppy buyer did not research. Worse, the older dog grew old (remember...a 7 yr old dog is considered a veteran) and a little cranky and instead of training the child to respect the dog...the faithful older dog is sent away. Very sad.
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Old 02-05-2015, 10:47 AM   #63
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Sorry Flnryan....I misspelled your name...
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:37 PM   #64
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Sorry Flnryan....I misspelled your name...
Don't feel bad I misspelled it too :-) it is suppose to be flynryan15.
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Old 02-05-2015, 07:02 PM   #65
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Well said Finryan...

I remember after the original movie, "101 Dalmations" came out, Dals were one of the most popular breeds in the country. They were presumed to be the perfect puppy for little kids and as many found out, they really were not known to be the most "tolerant" breed with toddlers. The shelters were flooded with Dals.

Responsible breeders tell prospective owners what the breed shortcomings are...any breed...but pet shops (never buy a puppy from a pet shop...good breeders never sell to pet shops) and newspaper ads sell to whoever has the money.

If you want a pure bred dog...but don't want to spend the money....please go to your local shelter and rescue. Sometimes it takes time to find what you are looking for...don't rush it...or you can call the local breed club and find out about their breed-rescue.

If you just want a lovable dog...GO TO A SHELTER...these dogs are vetted, almost to the extreme for any idiosyncracies. The breed club rescue groups are very careful when they place a dog because they do not want the dog to ever be returned to a rescue. Be prepared to answer a lot of questions. They are also a little higher than a public shelter because they are run by non-profits and they have shoestring budgets.

We look for "forever homes" for these guys that get turned back because sometimes, the only thing many of them did wrong was to grow into the adult dog that the un-informed puppy buyer did not research. Worse, the older dog grew old (remember...a 7 yr old dog is considered a veteran) and a little cranky and instead of training the child to respect the dog...the faithful older dog is sent away. Very sad.
I always got a kick out of people that told me I only own pure breeds. My standard question was do you think God created a German Sheppard? All dogs are a mix of something. As you said learn about your breed what their genetics are, and what they were breed to do. Petshops are the antichrist! There was a Petland a mile down the road from my location that kept my cages full. I remember I went through there once and they we're advertising a Caine Corso as an Italian Mastiff. So I played along started asking the salesman pointed questions about the breed. So then I started pointing out there is no Italian Mastiff, and this dog is breed to be a active guard dog. I laid it all out for them that this dog, was not for a novice breeder and SAC actually used them to roam missle bases for defense. Flat out told them you are going to put this dog in a home, and it is going to seriously hurt or kill someone. They didn't care, only thing I accomolished was ruining a few sales that day, and potiential buyers came to the sanctuary after they stopped me in the food court.

I am not one of those people that tells people they need to only adopt dogs, adopt mix breeds or what not. I just tell people educate yourself, learn the breed you want, and go to the best breeder. I good breeder will charge more, but a responsible breeder does everything in their power to maintain good lines, and eliminate breed related health problems.

Honestly I usually play the mediator on animal issues, I understand people's concerns over dogs. As many people say those concerns are caused by idiot owners, and an event that happened in the past. I also have a bad habit of correcting issues when I see them :-) last week I did it for a neighbor I never previously met. They just adopted a pit mix, and he is a big rambunctious boy. They walk him regularly, or I should say he walks them. I chatted it up, quickly learned they love him but are very sore from his lack of manners. I ask if I could try, which they agreed, took the leash off him made it into a choker, and showed them how to properly control him. I left them with advice to get one on one training, and names of good training collars. Like I said training the owners go a long way, they weren't bad owners, and he isn't a bad dog! They were in a little over their head, and he is just a goofy fool.
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:41 PM   #66
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Don't feel bad I misspelled it too :-) it is suppose to be flynryan15.
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Old 02-05-2015, 09:27 PM   #67
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We were just refused entry to an rv park for the first time because of our dog's breed - Labrador! Too large.

I've been around and had dogs all my life - usually more than one at a time - and in my experience some types of dogs do have more aggressive traits than others.

I've also helped to socialize shelter dogs as a volunteer and realize humans are largely responsible for problem dogs. The vast majority of these animals can be rehabilitated with varying degrees of difficulty and skill. I happen to do pretty well with aggressive dogs while other people might be better at dealing with fear factors.

Bottom line... dogs are indeed individually different, but do share breed characteristics to certain degrees. Some dog owners are capable of raising a good dog from just about any breed, while other folks can foster a loving Bishon or Beagle into a public nuisance. Though I oppose the policy of breed discrimination, I understand why a business like an rv park would have one. The same goes for children.
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Old 02-16-2015, 09:00 PM   #68
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Well. I have to admit I had my first bad experience with my Pit. I took her camping and friends had their children there. Nina was so well behaved everyone complimented her and she made friends with an 18 month old little girl that fed her treats. Nina took treats from her little hands ever so gently.


NOT 1 problem camping, but when I got home, we visited a neighbor. He has a cat. She is no strangers to cats. My mom has an old, blind in one eye, house cat that Nina sees any time we visit and they walk past each other all the time. Well, it seems my neighbors cat knows where it's food is kept in the garage and gets crazy if another animal goes towards the open garage door. Nina was being curious and was just sniffing around, even ignoring the cat just feet away, until this crazed cat thinks Nina is after her food. No food was out at this time, just stored on shelves. This cat suddenly attacks my poor Nina (15lb black cat and 65lb Staffordshire Terrier) Nina has no where to go but IN the garage with this vicious creature behind her until she is cornered! She is attacked and backed into a corner - the cats owners try to pull the cat away but the cat swipes at them! Nina is cornered and can't get away. The cat attacked and clawed her and drew blood! I had to step past this crazed cat and pick up my 65lb dog that was being attacked! I had to carry her past this cat to rescue her!


This could have happened at any campground instead of at a neighbors house. I propose to BAN all cats from campgrounds since this one was so vicious and drew blood from my poor helpless dog. Even cats that supposedly won't be leaving the owners RV, as they may escape and attack another helpless dog like mine! I think, NO, I'm sure that she may need therapy now! She had a great weekend camping and playing with kids from 18 months, 6,7,9, and 12 years of age and adults who praised her gentleness with their kids, then gets attacked 10 houses down from her own by a vicious creature called 'house cat'. Ban all cats! They can't be trusted!
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Old 02-17-2015, 08:20 AM   #69
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It's a shame that the bigger breeds get an unfair rep. When usually the smaller dogs are the ones that misbehave.
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Old 02-17-2015, 08:25 AM   #70
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Well. I have to admit I had my first bad experience with my Pit. I took her camping and friends had their children there. Nina was so well behaved everyone complimented her and she made friends with an 18 month old little girl that fed her treats. Nina took treats from her little hands ever so gently.


NOT 1 problem camping, but when I got home, we visited a neighbor. He has a cat. She is no strangers to cats. My mom has an old, blind in one eye, house cat that Nina sees any time we visit and they walk past each other all the time. Well, it seems my neighbors cat knows where it's food is kept in the garage and gets crazy if another animal goes towards the open garage door. Nina was being curious and was just sniffing around, even ignoring the cat just feet away, until this crazed cat thinks Nina is after her food. No food was out at this time, just stored on shelves. This cat suddenly attacks my poor Nina (15lb black cat and 65lb Staffordshire Terrier) Nina has no where to go but IN the garage with this vicious creature behind her until she is cornered! She is attacked and backed into a corner - the cats owners try to pull the cat away but the cat swipes at them! Nina is cornered and can't get away. The cat attacked and clawed her and drew blood! I had to step past this crazed cat and pick up my 65lb dog that was being attacked! I had to carry her past this cat to rescue her!


This could have happened at any campground instead of at a neighbors house. I propose to BAN all cats from campgrounds since this one was so vicious and drew blood from my poor helpless dog. Even cats that supposedly won't be leaving the owners RV, as they may escape and attack another helpless dog like mine! I think, NO, I'm sure that she may need therapy now! She had a great weekend camping and playing with kids from 18 months, 6,7,9, and 12 years of age and adults who praised her gentleness with their kids, then gets attacked 10 houses down from her own by a vicious creature called 'house cat'. Ban all cats! They can't be trusted!
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