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-   -   Thinking about a Tow Vehicle .. (http://www.irv2.com/forums/f45/thinking-about-a-tow-vehicle-213100.html)

Rogue 07-26-2014 12:25 PM

Thinking about a Tow Vehicle ..
 
Greetings, all. Thanks to the info I gleaned from people on this forum, I selected a fine 5er to live in, a 2008 Carriage Cameo 33CKQ. No TV yet, had it delivered, living in it stationary and loving it. Now I am considering purchasing a TV to open up possibilities. I'm very unfamiliar with what features are available on what models, and rather than starting completely from scratch, I'm hoping some of you who are familiar might give me a leg up to help me target my search.

Considerations:

1) For starters, I do not want a long bed, and I don't want DRW. I'm very aware that these two features make for a better pure TV, but it's not negotiable and I would like to explore what's available within my parameters. For reference, I am currently driving a 1500 RAM (no, I am not considering it as a TV) Crew Cab with a 5.5' bed, and I don't want a longer pickup. I'd go for a Quad Cab with a 6.5' bed, or Ford/Chevy equivalent. 4 door is a must.
2) 4WD is also a must.
3) I would prefer late model used, if possible.
4) I would like to hear about the greatest towing capacity possible within these limitations. The GVWR of my current 5er is 15K lbs, but if possible I would like to be able to move to a 38 footer in the future (with a similar floor plan, to give me a little more elbow room in the bedroom and a normal bathroom.) That is not absolutely necessary, but it would be nice to have the option.
5) I'm told that some of the late model diesel engines are as quiet as gas engines. I'd love to know what models have these engines, and are they the engines that are going to get the job done for me?
6) I'm partial to the Ram 3500 but open to any other make.

Again, just hoping to narrow my research. Any ideas what - if anything - might fit the bill? I will appreciate any and all discussion, just know that if you want to convince me I need a DRW or long bed, as well intentioned and right as you are, it's simply not an option for me.

Thanks!

Rogue

jesilvas 07-26-2014 12:43 PM

Doesn't matter if you don't want a DRW, you'll be illegal without it with the weights you listed. If you want "elbow room" for towing, you have no option. You need to decide whether you want to risk pulling that heavy thing without DRW.

glennwest 07-26-2014 01:24 PM

It's your behind. I wouldn't tow any thing that big and heavy without a dually.

caissiel 07-26-2014 01:36 PM

I tow with a SRW Ford and my trailer pin weight is on the light side for 15500 lbs 5th wheel.
You need to know the GCW and the rear axle load. Tires need to be rated for the load.
Most Toy haulers are of limits for me, but 5th wheels without front closet W/D will do well for most 350/3500 SRW trucks.

jesilvas 07-26-2014 01:40 PM

That Cameo is about 12K empty, and 15K max. Pin weight may be around 3000 or more.

Those are the numbers to start with when finding a truck.

Highway 4x4 07-26-2014 01:42 PM

If you wanted to tow with a SRW, 4x4, SB, you picked the wrong TT.

Rogue 07-26-2014 02:00 PM

Actually I didn't pick it to tow, I picked it to live in, in this beautiful RV park. Now that I'm living in it, I'm exploring possible options for towing it, if there even are any that will work for me. I appreciate all the input so far and I'll keep listening. Thanks!

Rogue

Highway 4x4 07-26-2014 02:54 PM

Don't know your plans but if you only want to "move" it now and then and have it set for long periods of time you might just pay to have it moved and just keep the 1500. There will be considerable cost in setting up to tow and loss on the 1500. Having to deal with all the HD stuff is not always fun.

Rogue 07-26-2014 04:11 PM

"Plans?" What is this "plans" of which you speak? :laugh:

Highway 4x4 07-26-2014 05:23 PM

You have eliminated all the trucks that will safely tow your 5th so I guess the 5th stays where it is.

BCooke 07-26-2014 05:49 PM

I think with a 2015 F350 SRW diesel you would be right on the edge.
Would not recommend it. Pulled right on the edge, not a fun experience.
...so as for a late mode...

SmokeyWren 07-26-2014 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue (Post 2154761)
...2008 Carriage Cameo 33CKQ. ...

I do not want a long bed, and I don't want DRW...

I'd go for a Quad Cab with a 6.5' bed, or Ford/Chevy equivalent. 4 door is a must.
2) 4WD is also a must.
3) I would prefer late model used, if possible.
6) I'm partial to the Ram 3500 but open to any other make.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVBusiness.com
Carriage started in the late 1960s and built a reputation for quality high-end fifth-wheels. The company ended production abruptly in 2011...

Bankrupt. Gone. So don't expect anything from Carriage. I looked and looked and can't even find the GVWR of your trailer. But I found one at PPLMotorHomes, and they say it's actual scaled weight is over 12,000 pounds dry. As a full-timer, the trailer must haul everything you own, so figure at least 14,000 pounds on the road. Hitch (pin) weight will be your limiter, so assume the average of 20% of gross trailer weight, or 2,800 pounds wet and loaded pin weight.

So if you don't want to be overloaded, you need enough truck to tow a 14k trailer with 2,800 pounds of hitch weight without exceeding the GCWR or GVWR of the tow vehicle.

I'm a Ford fan, so I'll use Ford numbers, but I'm sure Ram numbers are comparable for similar trucks.

Used, but not too used, is a 2011 F-350 SRW SuperCab "shorty" (6.5' bed) 4x4 with diesel engine.

GVWR 11,500 minus 2,800 pin weight leaves a max of 8,700 pounds for wet and loaded truck weight. Is that achieveable? Yes, but you must promise to not haul anything in the truck but a skinny driver, full tank of fuel, and your slider 5er hitch. Very little else. Then weigh the wet and loaded rig including wet and loaded 5er on a CAT scale on the road and add the weight on the front and rear axles. Compare that weight to the GVWR of the truck, and you'll see where you stand as to how much more weight you can add to the truck without being overloaded. Maybe a few hundred pounds at most.

GCWR 23,500 minus 14,000 trailer weight leaves 9,500 pounds max wet and loaded truck weight without exceeding the GCWR of the tow vehicle. So GCWR is not your limiter. GVWR is your limiter.

So yes, it can be done without overloading your tow vehicle, but just barely. You must be aware of the weight limitations of your tow vehicle, and not try to hall all your stuff in the truck and trailer when you move. Maybe move the 5er, then come back and rent a U-Haul trailer to move the rest of your stuff. And no, you cannot graduate to a heavier 5er later. And that assumes a 2011 Ford diesel. (2010 and earlier have less towing capacity than the 2011).

The equivalent Ram to the Ford SuperCab is called a CrewCab. The MegaCab is Ram's real CrewCab, but you want a shorter rig that a MegaCab dragging the 35' 5er. So look for what Ram calls a CrewCab, and be certain it has the diesel engine.

jesilvas 07-26-2014 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyWren (Post 2155190)
I looked and looked and can't even find the GVWR of your trailer.

http://www.oconnorrv.com/brochures/c..._cameo_bro.pdf

SmokeyWren 07-26-2014 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesilvas (Post 2155231)

Yep, that shows GVWR of 14,999, which is about what I guessed. It's reasonable to guess at a wet and loaded trailer weight of 14,000 pounds if the OP doesn't try to haul everything he owns when he moves the 5er.

It will be very easy to overload a 3500 diesel SRW if he doesn't pay attention.


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