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-   -   12 Volt House Problem/Solution (http://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/12-volt-house-problem-solution-24884.html)

digNbubbs 04-28-2007 09:48 PM

Had a very odd problem tonight. We are plugged into 50A service. We had the radio going, along with a couple of small inside lights. The radio suddenly stopped playing and the lights went out.

As I looked around, I saw that the 120V items were still energized, but nothing 12V was on. I first checked the distribution panel, then the outside post to make sure everything was still energized. All was well.

I then went to the batter bay and metered across several area, including the breaker, main fuse, and solonoid. Checked the inverter/converter. All was well.

I put in a call to Monaco tech support - left a message. While I was waiting for a callback, I checked all of the switches, fuses, and breakers I could find.

When they called, first question was about the battery cutoff switch by the door. The next thing he had me to was to go to the front street side compartment and open the cover on the large box up there. He had me check the fuse on the solonoid in there, and when that was fine, he told me to meter both sides of the solonoid. One side had full voltage, the other side was dead.

He said I could just bypass that solonoid until I could replace it, as it was only for the battery cutoff on the dash. I ended up giving it a whack with my wrench and power came back on.

Tomorrow I will bypass it either with a jumper, or just get a bolt and nut and just put the two leads together. I have never used the batter disconnect switch inside the coach before, but will probably replace the solonoid nonetheless. I asked the tech why he sent me there right away, and he said "yea, those go bad" http://irv2.infopop.cc/groupee_commo.../icon_wink.gif

Glad it was easy for him to diagnose over the phone. Hopefully this will help if someone has the same issue.


--kev

ronboc 04-29-2007 04:07 AM

Good info, Kev, and something to remember.

But you didn't explain it fully enough ..... what kind and size was the wrench?????

roy goble 04-29-2007 02:32 PM

Had my battery cutoff go bad three times in the first 18 months of ownership. Finally just bipassed and forgot about it. It is a pain to have to bipass as it always goes bad in the dark. Keep your jumper wire if you do replace the solonoid.

Spur 04-29-2007 05:52 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ronboc:
Good info, Kev, and something to remember.

But you didn't explain it fully enough ..... what kind and size was the wrench????? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good question. http://irv2.infopop.cc/groupee_commo...on_biggrin.gif

digNbubbs 04-29-2007 10:14 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Spur:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ronboc:
Good info, Kev, and something to remember.

But you didn't explain it fully enough ..... what kind and size was the wrench????? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good question. http://irv2.infopop.cc/groupee_commo...on_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

haha - bust my boot. Crescent adjustable end wrench - 8".

http://irv2.infopop.cc/images/cute.gif

Just so I get hassled some more, here are a couple of pics http://irv2.infopop.cc/groupee_commo...icon_smile.gif First is the solenoid in the normal position and configuration -
http://www.chillaxnet.com/gallery2/m...g2_itemId=8270

And with the solenoid bypassed -
http://www.chillaxnet.com/gallery2/m...g2_itemId=8273

Wrench not included http://irv2.infopop.cc/groupee_commo.../icon_cool.gif

--kev

ronboc 05-01-2007 03:18 PM

Glad to see the tape over the ends, Kev. Those electrons simply love to spill out everywhere. Makes big sparks too!

I wonder how many folk actually USE that cut-off relay? I use my coach a lot, so it never really gets a chance to sit dormant for long periods, but is it a common thing to kill all power if you do?


And you're so organized, Kev. I can't even see my panel behind all the stuff I got stored in there.

digNbubbs 05-03-2007 01:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ronboc:
Glad to see the tape over the ends, Kev. Those electrons simply love to spill out everywhere. Makes big sparks too!

I wonder how many folk actually USE that cut-off relay? I use my coach a lot, so it never really gets a chance to sit dormant for long periods, but is it a common thing to kill all power if you do?


And you're so organized, Kev. I can't even see my panel behind all the stuff I got stored in there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

heh - no tape there! I just happened to have had the right size of shrink tubing http://irv2.infopop.cc/groupee_commo...icon_smile.gif And, BTW, nobody has EVER called me organized. I just happen to not have anything in that front compartment except my bag with air hose/fittings http://irv2.infopop.cc/groupee_commo...icon_smile.gif

I think the switch is pretty silly. It only cuts 12V to the interior lights and such. I think if I was to store my coach, I would kill the batteries at the compartment kill switch - right at the source.

I think I read somewhere where a guy referred to it as the "salesman switch". Possibly they use it to kill everything inside the coach at night? Dunno. Don't really care, as everything works just fine now, and I won't accidentally kill my 12V when hunting for the porch light again http://irv2.infopop.cc/groupee_commo...on_biggrin.gif


--kev

adj 05-04-2007 01:24 AM

I also had to bypass mine. IMHO, it would have made a great deal more sense if they would have used this relay to disconnect the chassis battery.

Phrog Driver 06-20-2007 07:53 AM

During April a forum member posted "Had a very odd problem tonight. We are plugged into 50A service. We had the radio going, along with a couple of small inside lights. The radio suddenly stopped playing and the lights went out. As I looked around, I saw that the 120V items were still energized, but nothing 12V was on." I experienced the same problem. In my case the 12 volt returns after 4-5 minutes. I used the search part of the forum and found a posted solution which was to bypass a solenoid located in the driver's side front panel.

I am in a Nashville campground next to a Monaco dealer so I decided to see how much a new solenoid would cost and it is $68.27. The new solenoid has a small circuit board attached to one of the smaller bolts. I asked about this an was told that Monaco replaced the old part with this modification to solve the problem. I mentioned reading that I could simply bypass the system since it was only for the battery cut off switch near the entry door. He replied that the solenoid also prevents a drain on the chassis batteries. He was specifically talking about 2004 to 2006 Monaco coaches. My question (long time to get there) is...has anybody who has bypassed the solenoid had a problem with their chassis batteries loosing charge after a short period of time. Because of the price and ease of replacing, I will probably replace mine just to keep it "original".

digNbubbs 06-20-2007 12:41 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Phrog Driver:
...He replied that the solenoid also prevents a drain on the chassis batteries. He was specifically talking about 2004 to 2006 Monaco coaches. My question (long time to get there) is...has anybody who has bypassed the solenoid had a problem with their chassis batteries loosing charge after a short period of time. Because of the price and ease of replacing, I will probably replace mine just to keep it "original". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did you ask him if it prevented drain even if you didn't flip the switch inside the coach to disconnect? He was probably trying to say that flipping that switch during storage will prevent some drain.

The only way the solenoid is going to do anything is if it is activated. If it is activated, it will cut off 12V to the house. By doing that, you will shut down any parisitic load that may be consuming batteries. That is not real sensible for fulltimers, and for people who store their coach for any period of time, you can also hit the battery disconnects in the battery bay, which will do a more thorough job of eliminating parisitic loss.

That being said, I will put mine "back to stock" as well. I am trying to figure out how to get a free solenoid from Monaco as a warranty replacement, even though I did the work myself.


--kev

Phrog Driver 06-20-2007 02:41 PM

Thanks for the reply. Agree with trying to get a free solenoid. The replacement solenoid, with the added circuit board fix, tells me that Monaco has probably replaced a bunch of these solenoids over the past few years. I went out of warranty 6 months ago. If you manage a free one please post it for other members. Also appreciate your other comments. I am experiencing a weak engine crank after sitting for a week. Currently using a BatteryMinder to solve that problem.

digNbubbs 06-20-2007 04:31 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Phrog Driver:
Thanks for the reply. Agree with trying to get a free solenoid. The replacement solenoid, with the added circuit board fix, tells me that Monaco has probably replaced a bunch of these solenoids over the past few years. I went out of warranty 6 months ago. If you manage a free one please post it for other members. Also appreciate your other comments. I am experiencing a weak engine crank after sitting for a week. Currently using a BatteryMinder to solve that problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will post up for sure once I find out how to get that replaced.

I would think that the weak engine crank would be unrelated to the solenoid, as that solenoid only isolates the house batteries - the chassis batteries would not be affected by that.

I, too, am curious about the weak crank. I know that some things use the chassis battery while parked, such as the awning, radio, and anything up front. Not sure if there are other things that I have not found. Maybe bay lights? I suppose a guy could flip the cut off at the house batteries and then see what is left on.

I think my main question about that is why the converter/charger is not charging the chassis batteries while the coach is plugged in. Should it? Is there an isolator between the two banks that would prevent the chassis batteries from being charged?

These and other deep thoughts to be discovered...


--kev

SacsTC 06-20-2007 06:30 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think my main question about that is why the converter/charger is not charging the chassis batteries while the coach is plugged in. Should it? Is there an isolator between the two banks that would prevent the chassis batteries from being charged? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, the chassis batts are not charged when the engine is not running. I don't care what your manual tells you. It is a misprint!!!
We installed a Xantrex Echo~Charge to get rid of this problem. When the coach batts are at a certain level, it then begins to charge the chassis. Have had no problem since install. (As long as the rig is plugged in.)

adj 06-20-2007 08:46 PM

My chassis battery has discharged at pretty much the same rate prior to, and after I bypassed the house battery relay.


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