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-   -   2017 F53 Differential bolt torque (http://www.irv2.com/forums/f23/2017-f53-differential-bolt-torque-347567.html)

sedaliaterry 07-01-2017 09:47 PM

2017 F53 Differential bolt torque
 
I am installing a Super-Steer TrackBar on my rig and was hoping someone might know the torque specs for the differential bolts? Anyone know it off the top of your head? Thanks.

georgelesley 07-02-2017 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedaliaterry (Post 3677551)
I am installing a Super-Steer TrackBar on my rig and was hoping someone might know the torque specs for the differential bolts? Anyone know it off the top of your head? Thanks.

If you are replacing existing bolts with ones supplied with the trac bar manufacturer, they should tell you the proper torque. This is what Henderson did with the trac bar I bought and installed from them.

TeJay 07-02-2017 03:20 PM

I've looked on three different Technicians CD's from Ford. The differential cover bolts are all torqued to 45 FT/Lbs. It should not matter if a company has included longer bolts or not. The torque will be the same.

When torquing bolts into a housing the steel threads in the housing have to be considered as well as the grade and size of the bolts being used. We consider that when buying nuts for bolts. It does not stand to reason that a company would provide different grade bolts to attach their particular device to the same housing without taking into consideration the housing itself. If they did not provide different grade bolts then 45 ft/'lbs will work.

In addition to that I installed my DIY rear TB to the housing and based on the DIY plate that was made got 1/2" longer bolts. They are torqued to 45 ft lbs but I also used lock tight for added insurance. We've got 20,000 miles on it and all is well.

The DIY TB design has been used by at least 40 folks and nobody has reported that their TB has come loose. I did report on the DIY thread that I had a bolt come loose. That was before I used the lock tight.

sedaliaterry 07-02-2017 05:12 PM

Thanks for the info TeJay. In my searches for this information through some of the threads I have run across some of your posts on TB DIY, as well as some others. One thread suggested 110# of torque which seemed a lot due to the housing threads. 45# seems a little more realistic.

I just received the SS TB yesterday but have not unpacked it or the instructions yet. On the schedule for tomorrow.

TeJay 07-02-2017 08:14 PM

Just to reassure you a bit more I have the Ford Technician's Service CD's from model years 2009, 2014, 2015 and 2016. They all specify 45#'a of torque.

JIMBO34PA 07-02-2017 11:07 PM

24k/26k rear axle?
 
i installed a Blue Ox rear track bar on my 2016 24k chassis. the Ford workshop manual says 250 ft lbs for differential assembly capscrews.and I believe based on the size of the bolts it's correct. Yes it says 45 ft lbs for a Dana 80 which is lower chassis ratings .

TeJay 07-02-2017 11:49 PM

The Ford CD's show three different differentials used for the F-53 chassis. I'm sure if I searched harder I could find exactly which is used in the different weighted chassis but it's already almost midnight.

This much I am sure of. The only specifications listed for the differentials that have a differential cover plate is the Dana 80. That's what our 2014 18,000 lb chassis uses, the Dana 80. It is used on the lighter chassis. The heavier chassis use a different differential which does not have a cover plate.

All the Dana 80 cover plates require only 45#'s of torque.

The OP did not list enough information to determine what differential he has. If it's the heavier DF then there should be information about the torque in the install instructions.

sedaliaterry 07-03-2017 04:49 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Actually just got done with the install, and yes the instructions did list the torque specs. In my case, I have a 22k chassis (which as I read the chassis book says I have the Dana S130), I had to use the metric (large bolt) differential bracket, and the torque ended up being 150ft lbs. I definitely put Loctite on. (Torque specs pic attached).

Thanks for all the research, I would not have guessed the specs can vary so much.

georgelesley 07-03-2017 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedaliaterry (Post 3680215)
Actually just got done with the install, and yes the instructions did list the torque specs. In my case, I have a 22k chassis (which as I read the chassis book says I have the Dana S130), I had to use the metric (large bolt) differential bracket, and the torque ended up being 150ft lbs. I definitely put Loctite on. (Torque specs pic attached).

Thanks for all the research, I would not have guessed the specs can vary so much.

I don't recall exactly what the bolts on my differential were but I do recall they were very tight (I would guess over 100lbs) from the factory and the spec for the new ones was north of 100lbs for sure.

TeJay 07-03-2017 08:13 PM

sedaliaterry,

The reason for the large differences in torque is at least two fold. First the bolt sizes and how much clamping forces are needed to keep parts together. A bolt has to be stretched some and that's based on it tinsel strength or bolt grade like grade 5 or 8. In the case of metric it's usually listed as a number like 10.9.

In the case of the Dana 80 differential (DF) we are only talking about small bolts to hold the cover plate on the DF. Your DF is a lot bigger and the way it is built there is no cover plate but there is an assembly using larger stronger bolts that need to be torqued more than a simple cover plate.

That's the primary reason we rely on specifications listed in service manuals so we can get this stuff correct.

sedaliaterry 07-03-2017 09:26 PM

Thanks again TeJay for the insight. When I looked up the model of Dana rear end I had in the Ford chassis specs, all that were listed were different in torque specs. It is friggin mind boggling as to who figures this stuff out...

sedaliaterry 07-04-2017 10:54 AM

SuperSteer TrackBar Install 2017 F53 22k Chassis
 
2 Attachment(s)
Snapped a couple pics for reference to complete the install. While the instructions from SuperSteer were fine to follow, a few more pics cannot hurt. Hope this helps others doing the install.

Terry

TeJay 07-04-2017 11:06 AM

We have available to us to buy: Steer Safe,(which we have and it's on the front) Safety Steer, Center steer and they are all on the front and designed to control play in the front steering system. Now we have Super Steer.

So a Super Steer is actually a rear track bar TB. I didn't know that and now I do!!!

Now I'm less confused than I was before. At least I think I am.

sedaliaterry 07-04-2017 11:35 AM

TeJay.

I think they may re-sell someone else TB (but not sure). For a front TB, the re-sell the Davis TruTrac. They sell Safe-T-Plus as well as RoadMaster as well as Koni (lots of re-sell stuff). Some items they have their own name on though.

F53 22k Chassis LINK

Terry

STORMY 1 07-04-2017 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeJay (Post 3678537)
I've looked on three different Technicians CD's from Ford. The differential cover bolts are all torqued to 45 FT/Lbs. It should not matter if a company has included longer bolts or not. The torque will be the same.

When torquing bolts into a housing the steel threads in the housing have to be considered as well as the grade and size of the bolts being used. We consider that when buying nuts for bolts. It does not stand to reason that a company would provide different grade bolts to attach their particular device to the same housing without taking into consideration the housing itself. If they did not provide different grade bolts then 45 ft/'lbs will work.

In addition to that I installed my DIY rear TB to the housing and based on the DIY plate that was made got 1/2" longer bolts. They are torqued to 45 ft lbs but I also used lock tight for added insurance. We've got 20,000 miles on it and all is well.

The DIY TB design has been used by at least 40 folks and nobody has reported that their TB has come loose. I did report on the DIY thread that I had a bolt come loose. That was before I used the lock tight.



Tejay

I have followed your threads for several years now and enjoy the great information you offer. I want to do the CHF on my new Newmar Baystar. The place that dies my Joni's, track bar and safety steer said the angles were bad and did not want to do the CHF.
I have seen the blue super strong adjustable brackets with the extra holes to "fine tune" the CHF. Where would I get those if I wanted to purchase? Brazel's said they would do it, if the angles were close to stock on the way i.e. Rods.

Thanks for your great advice through the years.

STORMY 1 07-04-2017 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STORMY 1 (Post 3681785)
Tejay

I have followed your threads for several years now and enjoy the great information you offer. I want to do the CHF on my new Newmar Baystar. The place that dies my Joni's, track bar and safety steer said the angles were bad and did not want to do the CHF.
I have seen the blue super strong adjustable brackets with the extra holes to "fine tune" the CHF. Where would I get those if I wanted to purchase? Brazel's said they would do it, if the angles were close to stock on the way i.e. Rods.

Thanks for your great advice through the years.



Make that "does my Koni's"
Spell check is not perfect and neither am I.

sedaliaterry 07-04-2017 07:50 PM

Stormy 1,

You are referring to front as far as CHF angles?? The rear should be fine. I did the rear on my Bay Star and the angle was not bad IMO. Easy procedure.

I put a Road Master on the front and it replaced the OEM front bar (I put a RM SB on the rear also but it works in conjunction with the OEM rear SB). If I had not done the RM on the front, I would have pursued the adjustable link bracket like you for the front CHF, because the angle there is definitely too flat on that 2nd hole setting.

Terry

marjoa 07-04-2017 10:01 PM

I installed this same unit on our MH and we have a Dana M80 Diff. and the factory said bracket bolts to the Diff 145 lbs. .75 Tie Rod Assembly bolts 150 - 180 ft. lbs.

STORMY 1 07-11-2017 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STORMY 1 (Post 3681785)
Tejay

I have followed your threads for several years now and enjoy the great information you offer. I want to do the CHF on my new Newmar Baystar. The place that dies my Joni's, track bar and safety steer said the angles were bad and did not want to do the CHF.
I have seen the blue super strong adjustable brackets with the extra holes to "fine tune" the CHF. Where would I get those if I wanted to purchase? Brazel's said they would do it, if the angles were close to stock on the way i.e. Rods.

Thanks for your great advice through the years.



Tejay

I contacted you just before we both left for road trips. I am the guy who wants to buy four of your complete CHF brackets that you make. I am not very good at figuring out how to get ahold of you on this forum. Takes me forever. Anyway, you and I get back home about the same time. Are your
"Sets" four brackets or two? I want to do front and rear on my 2017 Newmar Baystar 35' coach which Has a 22,000lb chassis. Will your brackets
enable the tie rod angles to be close to 90'? Please get back to me with your address so that I can send you a check. I can't find your old response. I am so bad at this.

Best regards,

Jerry Hardie
C: 425-941-0640
H: 425-844-2094
Seattle/ Carnation, Washington.

TeJay 07-12-2017 08:29 AM

marjoa,

The Dana 80 has a separate differential cover and the cover just keeps the fluid inside so it is not an integral part of the assembly. The other two differentials used by Ford on the F-53 chassis do have the third member, or pig as it is also called. That's the only way to get inside the housing and the bolts that hold the ring and pinion gears together do require torques above the 100 ft/lb range.

This is night and day difference as far as how they are assembled.

sedaliaterry 07-12-2017 08:34 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by STORMY 1 (Post 3694646)
Tejay

I contacted you just before we both left for road trips. I am the guy who wants to buy four of your complete CHF brackets that you make. I am not very good at figuring out how to get ahold of you on this forum. Takes me forever. Anyway, you and I get back home about the same time. Are your
"Sets" four brackets or two? I want to do front and rear on my 2017 Newmar Baystar 35' coach which Has a 22,000lb chassis. Will your brackets
enable the tie rod angles to be close to 90'? Please get back to me with your address so that I can send you a check. I can't find your old response. I am so bad at this.

Best regards,

Jerry Hardie
C: 425-941-0640
H: 425-844-2094
Seattle/ Carnation, Washington.

STORMY 1,

Never a good ideal to share your phone/contact info this openly. Best to send a Private Message (PM). To do this just click on the POST name of the individual you want to send to and a menu will pop up from which you can choose PM. See Attached PIC below.

Terry

vwd 01-03-2018 02:30 PM

I am getting ready to install a trac bar on a F53 26k chassis. I appreciate your pictures, they alleviate some of my fears. In the pictures and the instructions there are two holes in the frame bracket for the trac bar. No mention of which to use in the instructions. Why did you use the top hole?

sedaliaterry 01-04-2018 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwd (Post 3972549)
I am getting ready to install a trac bar on a F53 26k chassis. I appreciate your pictures, they alleviate some of my fears. In the pictures and the instructions there are two holes in the frame bracket for the trac bar. No mention of which to use in the instructions. Why did you use the top hole?

Clearance for the TrackBar arm to pivot as the axle/differential and frame move up/down and apart with the road conditions.

bruce91 01-04-2018 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedaliaterry (Post 3680215)
Actually just got done with the install, and yes the instructions did list the torque specs. In my case, I have a 22k chassis (which as I read the chassis book says I have the Dana S130), I had to use the metric (large bolt) differential bracket, and the torque ended up being 150ft lbs. I definitely put Loctite on. (Torque specs pic attached).

Thanks for all the research, I would not have guessed the specs can vary so much.

Looking at this thread as in the next few days i will be completing my DIY TB (track Bar). I looked at the instructions awhile back that supersteer had on their web site for their TB. For some wrong reason i had the 120 ft/lb stuck in my mind. Reading your post having the metric 10.9 bolts as i do i now know to go to 142 - 158 ft/lb.

I Got my TB plate back today from the weld shop that flame cut it. He had cleanned it up really good so i don't have to touch it up. I drilled the holes in the plate and off to storage 2 miles away for a test fit, fit good. :thumb: I do have to clean up a hole in the stabilizer bracket then back for a final test fit and a few pictures. Then to paint and final install. :dance:

TeJay 01-04-2018 08:11 PM

Bruce,

Sounds like a plan.. Neat when you can do those things and save some good $$$$$. It's also an accomplishment and I know you learned a bunch of stuff you can apply to the next DIY project.

Hope the family is doing well!!!!!

bruce91 01-05-2018 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedaliaterry (Post 3681498)
TeJay.

I think they may re-sell someone else TB (but not sure).

Terry

Awhile back i had called Roadmaster with a question and the conversdation led to track bars. I was told that they are manufacturing the track bar for supersteer.

i was thinking that those like sedaliaterry who purchased their TB from Supersteer and get 2 plates and some hardware for both the US and metric applications. This would leave them with one or the other plate and fasteners that wasn't need as extra. The only difference i see looking at the SS the instructions on line is they supply both US & metric bolts and nuts and 2 TB plates with drillings for US or metric, plates appear to be the same configuration. Why not post on irv2 for sale the parts not needed. The most involved part of doing the DIY track bar is making the DF plate. All the other bits and pieces are easily bought. Just a thought to pass it forward.

TeJay 01-05-2018 09:41 AM

Bruce,

Not a bad idea. They do charge a good price for the plates so maybe it's easier to send both as opposed to paying for return shipping. If you know about how that stuff is made and what you paid for your plate they are making a good profit for those TB's at $500. they can afford to send both plates.

Once you have an automatic waster jet or laser cutter, or cutting torch set up they are cut out like cookies. They buy 4' X 8" sheets of 3/8" steel at better prices because they are buying in quantity. I buy two 20' lengths of flat stock for my adjustable plates at $70 for both pieces.

Getting some of these folks to cooperate on posting on the forum would be a challenge but it's worth a try.

sedaliaterry 01-05-2018 11:35 AM

I used the metric plate and have the US one out in the barn. You are not talking about drilling additional holes in the US plate to make it into a metric though are you?

I never really looked at the hole spacing between the 2 plates to compare things with that thought in mind. Not sure how close the original vs new holes would be.

Certainly if someone has a need for a US plate that works...

TeJay 01-05-2018 12:03 PM

There are three differentials used on the f-53 chassis. the smaller weight classes use the Dan 80. That DF has a rear aluminum cover plate and that is the bolt pattern needed for the plate.

The others (Heavier duty) do not have a DF cover on the back but the gears (slang term, "Pig") is placed into the DF housing from the front. That DF pattern is going to be different based on if it's US made or Foreign which uses metric bolts. There are two different heavier DF and I do not know enough about them.

Maybe one is foreign made and therefore use metric bolts and the other is US made and uses SAE bolts. They may be of different design and gear ratio's. Like I said I've worked on DF but am not a skilled technician as far as they are concerned. That's where a truck shop has it over my experience.

Here's my guess the lighter units 18,000 and 20,000 which probably also use the 19".5" rims and tires use the DANA 80. that's what we have. It's an 18,000 lb chassis 31' long with 19.5" tires.

When you get into the 34' to 36' and above while still into the gas units and F-53 chassis they use the larger DF because of the weight and the 22.5" rims/tires.

That may also be the 22,000 or 24,000 and into the 26,000 lb chassis. That's where the heavier duty DF are used. Maybe the US made is one gear ratio and the metric one is a different ratio. I just don't know that.

If you were going to try and make use of the spare DF cover for a TB you'd have to know why the metric is used over the US made one. What determines when one is used over the other? It is 22,000lb, or 24,000 or 26,000 lb chassis?? That's what is going to determine who needs the one plate over the other.

bruce91 01-06-2018 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeJay (Post 3975590)

If you were going to try and make use of the spare DF cover for a TB you'd have to know why the metric is used over the US made one. What determines when one is used over the other? It is 22,000lb, or 24,000 or 26,000 lb chassis?? That's what is going to determine who needs the one plate over the other.

TeJay,
Looking at the Super Steer web site the TB one would purchase for a Ford F53 20K to 22K chassis, item: Rear Trac Bar - Part# SS401/SS500
rear axle on F53 with 20,000- 22,000 GVW (Dana 135-150 differential) and Kodiak Chassis up to 24,000 GVW .

Going by their install instructions the parts included are listed as: 2 TB plates, 1 metric, 1 standard, and fasteners for each to the DF.

When one was to purchase TB SKU: SS401 / SS500 and use the standard plate anyone with the 20k to 22k chassis *should* be able to use the metric plate.

I would call Super Steer asking if the intended plate will fit your rig.

Paste from SS instructions

IMPORTANT: Two different differential brackets are provided in this kit. One bracket has STANDARD holes, while the other has METRIC holes. They are identified by different part numbers. SS302-3 for STANDARD. SS302-4 for METRIC. You must determine your differential type to properly select the correct bracket for installation.
Note: Some OEM bolts will be metric. Be sure to check the size closely before installation. Metric bolts are larger and are also provided in the kit to be used with the metric bracket.

bruce91 01-06-2018 06:16 AM

1 Attachment(s)
This is my final test fit. Plate was painted yesterday and ready for the last install today. I will post more pictures and what i had to do in the next few days on another thread.

edge68474 01-06-2018 06:33 AM

I like shiny parts. Looks good Bruce.
I am all of a sudden feeling ignorant.
Did I read standard or metric holes? Do they make drill bits in metric sizes? Or, are you talking threads. I never heard of a metric drill bit. But, I'm not a mechanic either. I'm a retired equipment operator. Got some dirt to move, I can do it!! :blush:

TeJay 01-06-2018 08:42 AM

Larry,

Yes they make metric bolts and drill bits to drill metric hole sizes. Here's an example of what I did with bolts and sizes.

A 1/2" hole is .500 thousands. A 12-mm bolt is .70 mm smaller than 1/2". The 12-mm is bolt is what is used to connect the SB to the link ends on the SWAY control system. No a 1/2" bolt just won't fit through the front end of the SB.

I did drill my front SB holes out because I wanted to use 1/2" bolts. The SB is a hardened piece of steel. I had to sharpen my cobalt drill bit several times to do it and I wouldn't do it again.

Bruce91,

No that plate won't fit my DF because I have the 18,000 lb chassis with the aluminum DF cover on the rear. It's a completely different differential housing. Take another look at my pics showing the DIY rear TB. Those pics are on the thread "Questions about the CHF."

The back of your DF is a solid housing with no access. All your gears and stuff come out through the front by taking all those bolts out, removing the axles and laying the PIG on a stand on a work bench.

The next time you're at an RV dealer try not to alert the sales HAWKS so they don't swoop down on you and just crawl under the smaller F-53 chassis (19.5" tires) and take a look. Seeing the real thing helps a lot.

Can't wait to see your finished TB. You will have to take it for a drive. It will make a noticeable difference in the semi push. And in general make the handling almost one handed.

edge68474 01-06-2018 09:03 AM

I have been educated, again. I like that. Thanks

wackymac 01-06-2018 11:24 AM

Tejay--My 2001 F53 chassis is the 16,000# one and it has the DANA 80 rear axle with 5.38 gears and 19.5" wheels. I just had it rebuilt; new ring and pinion, new pinion bearings and new carrier bearings.

edge68474 01-06-2018 01:49 PM

Is that you or your cat, layed back like that. :dance:

TeJay 01-06-2018 01:59 PM

I just read a 2016 Ford publication with all that information.

16,000 - 18,000 DANA- 80 GR 4.88

20.500 - 22,000 DANA - S110 GR - 5.38

24,000 - 26,000 DANA - 170605 - GR 6.17

I'd guess that the S110 might be the SAE DF and the 170605 would be the metric. That's is just a guess.

wackymac 01-06-2018 05:41 PM

That's our cat, Rusty.

bruce91 01-07-2018 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edge68474 (Post 3976702)
I like shiny parts. Looks good Bruce.
I am all of a sudden feeling ignorant.
Did I read standard or metric holes? Do they make drill bits in metric sizes? Or, are you talking threads. I never heard of a metric drill bit. But, I'm not a mechanic either. I'm a retired equipment operator. Got some dirt to move, I can do it!! :blush:

I used a 5/8 drill bit for the 3 metric holes in the plate for the bolt to go thru the plate.

i measured the shoulder of the metric bolt (.545) and the 5/8 is .625. That would leave me with .08 oversize.

Getting the hole placement from the wood template to the steel plate it would be hard to get hole placement exact. The extra .08 clearance worked out perfect.

bruce91 01-07-2018 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeJay (Post 3976903)




Bruce91,

No that plate won't fit my DF because I have the 18,000 lb chassis with the aluminum DF cover on the rear. It's a completely different differential housing. Take another look at my pics showing the DIY rear TB. Those pics are on the thread "Questions about the CHF."

The back of your DF is a solid housing with no access. All your gears and stuff come out through the front by taking all those bolts out, removing the axles and laying the PIG on a stand on a work bench.

.

TeJay,
I knew you had the 18k chassis with the rear DF cover.

Looking again at the SS web site following the links using the 18K chassis they have no TB available for the 14k to 18k chassis. For the 24k to 26k chassis they list a different part # with no extra plate.

Looks like only SS TB for the 20k to 22k chassis has the extra plate for metric.

edge68474 01-07-2018 05:52 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEj7HgQ1m78

That video is from Hendersons. They mention torque values.
Hope it helps. :)

ghoticov 05-19-2018 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedaliaterry (Post 3680215)
Actually just got done with the install, and yes the instructions did list the torque specs. In my case, I have a 22k chassis (which as I read the chassis book says I have the Dana S130), I had to use the metric (large bolt) differential bracket, and the torque ended up being 150ft lbs. I definitely put Loctite on. (Torque specs pic attached).

Thanks for all the research, I would not have guessed the specs can vary so much.

Thanks for this info! I am looking into installing a SuperSteer SS401 on my 2017 Baystar 3113 so it looks like it would be exactly the same as yours (Metric, long bolts).

Was the installation difficult? Do you notice a big difference with the Rear Track Bar? I have done the CHF and have a Steering Stabilizer already so I am curious as to your opinion on if you noticed a big change?


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