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-   -   Towed vehicle brakes. (http://www.irv2.com/forums/f85/towed-vehicle-brakes-6471.html)

isa 10-28-2007 08:10 AM

I just read the subject of towed vehicle brake requirements on the Brazel's site and they are 100% WRONG. This is a copy of the message I sent them:

Your website indicates that it is necessary to have a braking system on towed vehicles entering Canada. This 100% WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Why don't you look at the the laws governing towed vehicles for every State and Province in North America. You will find that there are many where you do not require an auxilliary braking system depending on your setup.

In British Columbia, Canada, the law states:

Motorhomes (only) may tow motor vehicles via a tow bar without brakes hooked up on the towed motor vehicle, when the towed motor vehicle's laden weight (weight of towed vehicle and its load) is:
less than 2,000 kg (4,409 pounds), and
less than 40% of the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the motorhome towing it.

Motor vehicles with a laden weight of 2,000 kg and over towed by a motorhome must have brakes and breakaway device hooked up.

isa 10-28-2007 08:10 AM

I just read the subject of towed vehicle brake requirements on the Brazel's site and they are 100% WRONG. This is a copy of the message I sent them:

Your website indicates that it is necessary to have a braking system on towed vehicles entering Canada. This 100% WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Why don't you look at the the laws governing towed vehicles for every State and Province in North America. You will find that there are many where you do not require an auxilliary braking system depending on your setup.

In British Columbia, Canada, the law states:

Motorhomes (only) may tow motor vehicles via a tow bar without brakes hooked up on the towed motor vehicle, when the towed motor vehicle's laden weight (weight of towed vehicle and its load) is:
less than 2,000 kg (4,409 pounds), and
less than 40% of the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the motorhome towing it.

Motor vehicles with a laden weight of 2,000 kg and over towed by a motorhome must have brakes and breakaway device hooked up.

SargeW 10-29-2007 04:45 AM

Good observation isa. Accuracy in reporting is important to maintain credibility. However, that being said I think that it is just smart to have a braking system on any towed vehicle. Even if the brakes on the MH are equipped to handle the extra weight of the towed car, the extra weight will surely increase the stopping distance of the pair.

Sarge

FLYTYER 10-29-2007 08:23 AM

I checked Brazel's website and could not find such a statement. What I found was a state and providence listing of brake requirements for motorhomes and towed vehicle combo's.

In addition the weight limits listed leave me to wonder who makes a motor home that weighs less than 4409 pounds and if it even would have the capability to tow a car.

Common sense RVing tells me to use a supplemental brake and break-away system regardless of where you travel when towing a vehicle...why take a chance and face a huge liability problem by not having one?

isa 10-29-2007 09:21 AM

FLYTYER xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I suggest you look again at the Brazel web site under the Frequently Asked Questions where you will find the following comment, viz.:

"Q. What are the laws requiring there use?

A. Laws vary from State to State and in Canada. In most cases the laws are not actively enforced until an accident occurs. Entering Canada requires tow brakes, the requirements vary in each Province. The best bet is to have them - not because of laws but because of safety! (see the State and Province
requirements)"

The statement that you must have Tow Brakes when entering Canada is 100% WRONG WRONG WRONG.

isa 10-29-2007 09:39 AM

This for SargeW. My 2000 Commander can according to the Ford Motor Company operate at at an all up weight of 20500lb. My two tow vehicles weigh in at 2300Lb. for the Colt and 2450Lb. for the SC2. Provided my motorhome is 18050Lb. or less then I am within the parameters for the total GVWR. Unfortunately the Ford Motor Company has added a caveat that states if you are towing something that weighs 1000lb. or more then you should have additional braking.

Twenty years ago virtually no one had auxilliary braking on their toweds now we have all kinds of prophets claiming that you must have extra braking power. Fortunately the powers that be - State or Provincial licensing authorities have had their experts review the requirements and publish what rules you must follow to be legal when towing another vehicle. I intend to abide by whatever they publish.

FLYTYER 10-29-2007 10:30 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by isa:
FLYTYER as a Moderator you above all people should make sure of any staement before you commit yourself to paper in front of the entire RV community. I suggest you look again at the Brazel web site under the Frequently Asked Questions where you will find the following comment, viz.:

"Q. What are the laws requiring there use?

A. Laws vary from State to State and in Canada. In most cases the laws are not actively enforced until an accident occurs. Entering Canada requires tow brakes, the requirements vary in each Province. The best bet is to have them - not because of laws but because of safety! (see the State and Province
requirements)"

The statement that you must have Tow Brakes when entering Canada is 100% WRONG WRONG WRONG. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As we hear often stated today, "Upon further review" I did find the statement you take issue with in Brazel's website is in the FAQ section.

In my opinion and based on personal experience of being asked at the border if I had a supplemental braking system, Brazel's statement is appropriate. The statement may be partly in error based on each Province requirement, but again common sense needs to be applied.

Regardless of the laws here or in Canada, NOT having a supplemental braking system with a break-away feature and having an accident will compound any liability one might incur.

Norm Payne 10-29-2007 11:51 AM

Ford has stated for years if you tow a vehicle over 1,500 pounds your must have auxillary braking. I suppose that is not a law, just a requirement from Ford. Many of the old GM and some Workhorse chassis have the same statement. A friend owns a 1999 Fleetwood diesel motorhome on a Freightliner chassis and the information he received with his motorhome says the same thing, auxillary brakes required for towing over 1,500 pounds.

As I said, this is not a federaal or state law, but the chassis manufacturers have tested their brakes and know they are not safe if towing over 1,500 pounds.

I have a large diesel pusher and tow a Honda CR-V and I will never consider towing without my Brake Buddy AND the break-a-way switch. And I really don't care if the police tell me to remove it because it is not required by law.

TXiceman 10-29-2007 05:54 PM

Regardless of the laws passed by a bunch of lawyer types, the laws of physics will prevail. The addition of supplemental brakes on a dinghy just makes good sense to be safe. The addition of a break away system also makes sense.

Ken

NeilV 10-30-2007 12:18 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TXiceman:
Regardless of the laws passed by a bunch of lawyer types, the laws of physics will prevail. The addition of supplemental brakes on a dinghy just makes good sense to be safe. The addition of a break away system also makes sense.

Ken </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ken is right. The law does not require you to breathe or your heart to beat either however it makes good sense to do so all the time with rare exceptions. Laws like this are most times a minimum standard but why cheat and try to squeak by with the minimum? When you cheat saftey you cheat everone about you. Toad brakes are not just for someones own personal safety.

smlranger 10-30-2007 07:02 AM

It's a pretty simple issue for me...if I ever had a breakaway, I want to know that I did everything I could have done (like having a toad braking system with breakaway protection) to prevent injury to someone other than me.

isa 10-30-2007 09:57 AM

In FLYTYER's second write up he states:
"Regardless of the laws here or in Canada, NOT having a supplemental braking system with a break-away feature and having an accident will compound any liability one might incur."

It is obvious he does not know that the basic vehicle insurance in British Columbia is run by the Insurance Company of British Columbia also known as ICBC, basically a government entity.

The Government of British Columbia oversees the every aspect of regulations pertaining to highway safety, vehicle registration, plates, driver's penalty points, licensing personal and vehicles etc.etc. They also collect any fines that you owe for any infraction by applying it to your insurance coverage. So the same group that sets the rules are also the same group who
that insures you.

So the motorhome towed vehicle rules that have been agreed to by the motor vehicle division are also accepted by the Insurance Company of British Columbia (ICBC).

RustyJC 10-30-2007 10:25 AM

It appears that a review of the following may be in order:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Rules and Guidelines:

By participating in the Forums and Private Messages, you agree that you will not upload, post or otherwise transmit any content (including test, links, communications, software, images, sounds, data or other information) that (rule 7) attacks, insults or "flames" another iRV2 Member, Moderator or Administrator; </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rusty

NeilV 10-31-2007 12:21 AM

Regardless of the local laws there is still the matter of liability in a civil proceeding from the victims or their families.

We live in a time where you can't turn on the radio or TV for long without hearing an advertisement from lawfirms that specialize in this type of action. It does not make good sense to not have toad brakes and a good lawyer could make a case against someone who was at fault and did not have them on their toad.

Aside from that there is the matter of conscience. I believe we all like to sleep well at night secure in the knowledge that we have all been good stewards toward our fellowman and have not through negligence or personal greed caused them to suffer physical harm.

Why take a chance on harming people to save a few bucks. Isn't one life more valuable than the cost of a hundred toad brakes?


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