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aschuerg 05-03-2010 12:30 PM

The damon nightmare
 
I have one 2008 Astoria Pacifica bought new 11/27/2009 3600 miles Cummings 340.
All miles are to go to repair shops,ie Freightliner, Dealer, Cummings. The biggest piece of junk I have ever owned. Currently in the Feightliner shop waiting for a fuel pump that is on nationwide back order. None available anywhere and no one can tell me when there will be one available.
Broke down the very first day did get 20 miles down the road.When i picked it up major water leak broken water pipe it has been one thing after another. Cummings powered owners BEWARE ISB 6.7 power plants parts shortage.
I guess what pi--es me off no one will take responsibility keep being told " it's not my problem "
WHO's NAME IS ON THE COACH I ASK? :mad::banghead:

DBOL 05-03-2010 08:22 PM

Is your dealer taking care of your needs?if new they should!I'm surprised at having that much milage my was 6 months with 6000?

powerboatr 05-03-2010 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBOL (Post 635803)
Is your dealer taking care of your needs?if new they should!I'm surprised at having that much milage my was 6 months with 6000?

ditto
get some sugar and start talking to damon.
there is no reason a NEW unit wouldn't be covered.
Mine had its share of "SITTING " issues and now its a gem,

WYDan 05-04-2010 09:09 AM

We had a few "sitting" issues as well. Once they were handled by the dealer and Damon, we have had no issues. Only issues that I have I created myself.. :-)

aschuerg 05-07-2010 04:13 AM

Damon JUNK Update
 
Finally received the much anticipated Bosh injector pump. Was installed yesterday coach ran fine. Planned on picking it up Friday AM.
Received a call last evening " We found the original oil leak you have." OK " Your engine block is cracked."
My help from Damon has been NON EXISTENT. Cummings and Freightliner have been my only help. What I get from Damon Is "It's not our problem, and it covered by warranty"
Warranty if you get something for free and it doesn't work what good is it????????????
My next stop is my attorney Monday morning some one else is going to own this thing not me. One lesson I did learn never pay cash!!!
THE SAD PART ABOUT IT WE REALLY LIKE THE COACH.

wa8yxm 05-07-2010 06:42 AM

Well, it may be Damon's name on the coach, but the part you are waiting for and the Chassis are Freightliner it seems. Damon only built the house, not the engine/drive tain/chassis.. And that's what is giving you fits.

In my case the chassis is workhorse, Engine GM, Tranny Allision, I do not blame Damon for the Workhorse Brake recall, nor do I blame them for the GM fuel Clip recall... I blame Bosch and GM.

Damon, on the other hand, has been absolutely fantastic.. The one serious "house" issue I had they took care of no problem, a 2nd minor "house" issue, likewise (took them perhaps five minutes) and since they are an authorized workhorse center they took care of a couple of Workhorse issues too... Including one they did not know about till the day they fixed it. You see, it happened on the way there. (They also worked with me on scheduling so I drove perhaps 30 miles to get there)

jcthorne 05-07-2010 06:55 AM

Really don't see what you expect Damon to do here. They referred you to Freightliner who build the chassis for warranty repair. That is not passing the buck, its getting you the help you need to get it fixed. Freightliner is honoring the warranty right? I can understand your being VERY upset with having to deal with these issues but your anger should be a Cummins or Freightliner for building a low quality product.

Sound like you will be having a new engine installed. Make sure they do a good job and inspect the rest of the coach throughly when picking it up.

doc 05-07-2010 07:07 AM

Stuff happens. Obviously you will never be happy and the best thing for you to do is get rid of it. As said above, these problems are chassis issues and not Damon. Chances are if you buy another coach it will have a Freightliner Chassis as well and you will be happy. I talked to a guy a while back with a half million dollar Monaco Signature. Lots of problems with that coach as well.
These things cost tremendous amount of money and we expect them (and rightly so!) to be perfect in every respet - only problem is they are not. I cannot imagine Freightliner letting something like a cracked block get past them. Or even a failed pump.
Another thing I don't understand is why the heck you are so upset at Damon and yet you say you like the coach and yet praise Freightliner when they are the source of all your problems. :facepalm:

Did I miss something earlier?

powerboatr 05-07-2010 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doc (Post 637398)
S

Did I miss something earlier?

i am beginning to think we all did.

If freightliner and cummins are warrantying the repairs, sounds like case closed

damon for me has stepped up each time needed some squeak greasing.

a cracked block off the assembly line I can relate. our first 4056 had a small crack at delivery and kindly swapped to the other one they had in stock,
should an engine leave the cummins plant broken? nope
should freightliner have caught it? yep
so should have damon when it was being built and delivered ????

but the fact is things like this happen and if they are stepping up to fix it....well then they are taking care of it, I understand loss of use of your coach, and maybe a some sugar could get you a comp or something,

good luck
i know my damon likes to be driven.

aschuerg 05-08-2010 03:10 PM

Let be a Little more clear
 
In Service 11/27/2009 new.
Cold water pipe burst in kitchen Yes pressure reducer was installed. Filter conection broken.
11/28/09 Foul smell comming from Coach . Chassis battery boiled over waqs cracked. Returned to dealer out of service for the entire day.
11/29/09 32 degrees out side temp inside 40 furnace not working. Bad Batteries in controller. Carbom monoxide detector NO BATTERIES .

12/15/09 Opened slide hear a crunch like broken glass. Broke all the tiles 5 all together. Took to Dealer ordered. Found out slide out rollers were not line properly. Ordered Parts 2 week delivery.

1/6/10 back to dealer for floor issue. repaired took 7 days.

Stored in covered garage until 4/07/10 Check engine light comes on. under acceleration. NO POWER Cummings Memphis. Code 559 kept entire day said repaired pulled out of shop problem returned. Used 55 gallons fuel between memphis and Nashvillle on return. THe rest you know.
My problem w/Damon is the attitude when I called for help, w/Cummings/Freightliner I got a DON't CARE Attitude. Now I buy a Dodge and have engine do I call Cummings? No I go to Chrysler. If buy a Ford550w/a Cummings do I go to Cuummings? No I go to Ford.
"You Leave the Dance W/THE ONE WHO BRUNG YA!!!!"
ALL I WAS ASKING FOR WAS HELP AND HAVEN'T HAD IT SO FAR FROM DAMON. THEY WON'T EVEN RETURN MY DEALERS CALLS. My last call response was ." What do you expect me to do.'
WHEN I GET IT BACK IT GO'S

Redapple 05-08-2010 06:37 PM

aschuerg,

I am sorry for your RV troubles, however, this type of situation is not uncommon in this industry. While I am not condoning it, or justifying it, I do recognize it. Much of your problem is endemic to this industry, and we as consumers allow it to happen and continue.

Some of what you have experienced is also a dealer problem. Who knows how long this sat on the dealer lot before you made your purchase. It is up to the dealer to ensure you receive a product at the highest level of quality. Bad and missing batteries and a mis-aligned slide should have been caught during the PDI, and certainly when they took initial receipt of the MH.

In regard to your chassis; most likely your chassis sat bare in a parking lot for who knows how long before they began the coach build on the chassis. Who knows what type of conditions it was exposed to.

Again, this type of situation is normal in this industry. Some of us have it better than others, but I am willing to bet, once your initial set of warranty work is done you will end up with a good coach.

Good luck with it,
Bill

jcthorne 05-09-2010 10:16 AM

You still don't seem to get it. You are dealing with Freightliner because that is who built your truck. Same as if you bought a Ford.

If you bought a Ford pickup with a Koenig bed and work package, if you had engine trouble you would take it to Ford, not Koenig.

Same here, you take it to Freightliner, Not Cummins or Damon. Your beef with the chassis is with Freightliner. That is what you bought. Check your VIN number if you don't believe me.

Similarly most of your relativly minor coach issues are dealer prep items, or lack thereof.

We will not convice you to be happy with the coach. Most folks are about as happy with thier coach as they decide to be.

You will be very disappointed financially if you push your way through the lemon law case. Two years from now you will get a payment for about 70% of what you paid due to depreciation and milage and the lawyers will take a portion of that. In the eyes of the law, you will be made whole but you will not feel that way. You would be far ahead to decide to work through these troubles and be happy with the coach. It will cost you a bunch to trade a 2 year old coach.

Oh, and there is no 'G' in Cummins. Cummings is something best left for the bedroom.

powerboatr 05-09-2010 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aschuerg (Post 637960)
In Service 11/27/2009 new.
Cold water pipe burst in kitchen Yes pressure reducer was installed. Filter conection broken.
11/28/09 Foul smell comming from Coach . Chassis battery boiled over waqs cracked. Returned to dealer out of service for the entire day.
11/29/09 32 degrees out side temp inside 40 furnace not working. Bad Batteries in controller. Carbom monoxide detector NO BATTERIES .

my cold supply was looses under the sink
dealer should have caught it at pdi, and so should have I. but they were more wrong :D\
my batteries were shot.....sitting on alot for over a year with questionable power ups killed them, damon replaced all four, did it suck having to go back to gt em replaced? YES.
they comped me for my trouble with a fill up from the dealer on fuel. ( i was under 1/4 tank:thumb:)

the two aa batteries in heater remote.......dont want to seem mean, but dealers will not replace things like that unless you catch it at pdi.
however my dealers PRIDE they would get me new batteries if i asked.
we even stay in the coach in the SHOP while they did repairs

the rest..... be firm but tactful and have cummins and freight fix it. then you will be able to enjoy the coach
remember it sat for a year prior to you, and who knows how long before that. bugs will develop, these puppies need to be driven
i hope you get her all fixed up and can enjoy the summer

aschuerg 05-10-2010 04:57 AM

Maybe some of you don't get it.
All I asked for is help from DAMON and got SQUAT.
As for some one preaching to me about what my losses and gains are going to be if I wanted your advice I'd ask. By the way I have been through this before It's not a Freightliner issue CUMMINGS is now being blamed. (oh bedroom spelling!)
There too many people willing to settle that partly what is wrong with this economy.
I won't settle for incompentence from anyone including myself nor should anyone else have to. and yes I have been very patient.

TandW 05-10-2010 05:51 AM

Poor Bob Cummings!

SteveE9C6 05-10-2010 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aschuerg (Post 638773)
Maybe some of you don't get it.
All I asked for is help from DAMON and got SQUAT.
As for some one preaching to me about what my losses and gains are going to be if I wanted your advice I'd ask. By the way I have been through this before It's not a Freightliner issue CUMMINGS is now being blamed. (oh bedroom spelling!)
There too many people willing to settle that partly what is wrong with this economy.
I won't settle for incompentence from anyone including myself nor should anyone else have to. and yes I have been very patient.


I think everyone here gets it just fine. Your primary issues are either chassis or motor. Neither of these are warranted by Damon. It sounds like Damon referred you to the appropriate source. You are upset, and I understand that. But the folks here are telling you the truth. You seem very confrontational here... with folks actually trying to help you. Perhaps your angst is misdirected? Good luck...

wa8yxm 05-10-2010 03:50 PM

A couple of the things he listed are actually Damon's problem.. One problem, I'm not sure if he explained it or not and I'm not sure what caused it if he did (Foul smell in coach followed by the battery comment, The foul smell could have been the batteries or something else, he was unclear, and the failure of the batteries could have been due to many thigns (too many to list)

Cold water pipe in kitchen I'v e had that problem too (only I think it was a hot pipe) they tend to under tighten the fittings.. In my case I just re-connected the pipe.

indiana journey 05-10-2010 05:48 PM

We also had problems with our coach that were passed back and forth between the various manufacturers. After much frustration with trying to get it fixed on our own, we talked to the sales manager @ the dealership. He called the coach manufacturer(Winnebago) who in turn called me. We talked about the problems we were having with the coach. I explained that we had talked to a customer representative @ the factory when we were there and accomplished nothing. He told me that he would get back with me later that day. He did not personally call me but the Cummins rep did. Cummins told me that they would stand behind getting the problem fixed, which they did. Freightliner also stood behind their end of the fix, even well after the warranty had expired. I know that this is of no comfort right now, with a new coach, that you are wanting to use. I guess that you have to keep trying to find someone @ the dealership or manufacturer that will help you get things going. Try to find competent shops that do know what they are doing. They are out there. Most factory reps know which ones do good work. If you aren't satisfied with one of them tell the factory that you want it fixed @ a more competent shop. Keep on them every day and you should get some satisfaction. Good Luck,
Indiana Journey

Redapple 05-10-2010 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aschuerg (Post 638773)
Maybe some of you don't get it.
All I asked for is help from DAMON and got SQUAT.
As for some one preaching to me about what my losses and gains are going to be if I wanted your advice I'd ask. By the way I have been through this before It's not a Freightliner issue CUMMINGS is now being blamed. (oh bedroom spelling!)
There too many people willing to settle that partly what is wrong with this economy.
I won't settle for incompentence from anyone including myself nor should anyone else have to. and yes I have been very patient.

You did ask for advice... you came here and asked, so fair game. The person was just providing information that they may or may not know you have. In essence, trying to help. While I did my best to keep my posting polite, you really owe some of these people an apology. There is no excuse for your confrontational attitude and rudeness toward people who are trying to help.


Bill

aschuerg 05-11-2010 04:50 AM

For the few.
 
who are sensitive I'm sorry for you. The fact of the matter is I have had several conversations w/Damon Customer Service regarding this and a number of other issues of only a few solved. The response has been the same either and I quote "What would you have us do", "The dealer you bought it from is not our dealer", "This is not our problem".
I have had a number of problems some are Freightliner, some Cummins,and some are Damon. I have a relationship w/both Cummins and Freightliner for over 15 years never have had the run around from either.
When it came time I didn't question to write a check to pay for the coach all I was asking for was help from Damon not BS.
Some of you think I am rude , crash, and ill tempered. Well the fact of the matter is I am none of the above but I sure as hell MAD.
I sell a product my name goes on it even though other parties are involved with it's production I take responsibility. Someone complains I try to resolve it or at least point them in the right direction not pass the buck or act like I don't care even if I don't. Little things and words and can often help.
I spoke to the Cummins factory rep yesterday said they had ordered a block and would have to build my motor min. of 2 to 3 weeks. Then it will have to go back to Freightliner to finish the orininal repairs and on to a Damon dealer. By the way my dealer offered to change out my coach with a similar one only cost me another $ 25,000. :rofl:

wa8yxm 05-11-2010 06:30 AM

Ah, you purchased from a non-authorized dealer.. Now I start to understand

one thing you can be sure Damon understands is a guideline called the "Uniform Commericial Code" Most states have consumer protection laws that are based on this guideline.

What it says is the SELLER warrants.. Not the factory. IN practice if you buy from an authorized dealer then the factory will re-emburse them for repairs made under warranty.. And other authorized dealers will honor the warranty as part of their contract with Damon.

however if you buy from a non-authorized dealer.. Then it's up to them to do the warranty work.. Not Damon.. And of course they do not want to spend the money.

So your complaint is with "Joe's RV's" or whomever you bought from, not Damon who is only following the rules.

The reason many of us, myself included, are saying that we don't have any problems and in fact Damon has been fantastic is that I (And I assume the others) Purchased new from an authorized dealer.. Thus if I have a warranty problem (Well, HAD, since it's now out of warranty) or a Recall.. I can go to any authorized dealer and they will fix it, and if one of their customers is in the area I bought my rig and has an issue, they can go to my dealer and they will fix it.

But if you buy from someone who it not authorized, then that "I'll fix yours, you fix mine" is not included in the deal.

doc 05-11-2010 08:59 AM

Reckon these chips and deletes have anything to do with the condition of the engine now? At 3600 miles there was no complaints and it was perfect according to an earlier post.

From earlier post:
"Astoria is new 08 I have the 6.7 Isb Cummings motor just added aT&S power chip to the motor fuel mileage on my first trip in mountains was 11.0 per gal. AVERAGE SPEED 65 mph.
will be making a longer trip this week. Best I could get before was around 9 staying @ 55 mph.
With this new addition at 72mph i am only pulling 2000 rpm and the shift to high 6.6 gear is twice as fast as before.
Now the search is on for a DPF delete system that will really open up that 6.7 to it's potiential. This new coach has now got 1800 miles on it. I have a 6.7 in dodge ram with all the deletes in place getting 19 mpg and awsome pulling power"

powerboatr 05-11-2010 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wa8yxm (Post 639362)

The reason many of us, myself included, are saying that we don't have any problems and in fact Damon has been fantastic is that I (And I assume the others) Purchased new from an authorized dealer.. Thus if I have a warranty problem (Well, HAD, since it's now out of warranty) or a Recall.. I can go to any authorized dealer and they will fix it, and if one of their customers is in the area I bought my rig and has an issue, they can go to my dealer and they will fix it.

well said
My relationship with damon has been almost perfect and I am a stickler for detail, one water issue was not dealt exactly as i would have liked but it was FIXED and at no charge to me, with a Better way.

Tony at damon has been a stand up guy and makes good on his promises

aschuerg 05-12-2010 02:09 AM

Regarding Dealer
 
Be assured the Dealer I purchased this coach was and still is a Damon Dealer. This was just one of the lame responses when I contacted Damon I was given.

Yes the power chip really did make difference in performance. Power chips have no relation to equipment reliability unless you over do it. I own a number of Diesel Powered, trucks, and tractors units all w/chips and performance enhancements on them none have problems. The problems w/Cummmins is at manufacturing the Bosch injector pump leak is no surprise. Bosch pumps have had problems for a while availability was the issue. The cracked block was delivered from the factory with the defect.

Again my problem has and will remain with Damon and the, What do you want me to do about it attitude. Enough said first impressions are lasting my first impression and experience w/Damon aren't very good(SUCK). That's why there are other manufactures everyone has a choice . Mine will definetly not be a Damon.


KC1BUD 07-07-2010 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doc (Post 639430)
"Astoria is new 08 I have the 6.7 Isb Cummings motor just added aT&S power chip to the motor fuel mileage on my first trip in mountains was 11.0 per gal. AVERAGE SPEED 65 mph.
will be making a longer trip this week. Best I could get before was around 9 staying @ 55 mph.
With this new addition at 72mph i am only pulling 2000 rpm and the shift to high 6.6 gear is twice as fast as before.

He can chip it or even put on a blower, but it is up to the manufactuerer to prove that what he did to the engine caused the problem. The national lemon law(Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act ) says this in so many words.

jcthorne 07-08-2010 03:15 AM

Actually in practice it works the other way round. Engine or drive train component fails, mfg claims is the modification that cause it, warranty denied. Now its up to you to prove in court the performance modification DID NOT cause the failure. Except in a few extream cases, this never happens and the manufacturers denial of warranty coverage stands. Happens every day. Suggest you visit some forums for the various performance cars. Nissan is among the worst but all the majors with high performace cars have similar policies depending on how far pushed.

aschuerg 07-08-2010 05:26 AM

Well I can tell you this much I have been there done that unless it's so obvious that your mod caused the breakdown you win. And yes I have been to court w/ manufacture not only won also received compensation from the manufacture. My cost 1/3 of settlement period.
Chip for better performance not for shear power you should't have a problem. Better yet get rid of the tree huggers we would all be better off. My next step it to remove My DFT I would not hesitate to improve fuel mileage to 20+ MPG w/o pouring great amount of polution in the air. I have just not found the right wat as of yet. It's comming. Hydrogen , water, nitrous injection ??????????????????????????????

94-Newmar 07-08-2010 03:12 PM

Unfortunately his problems with the 6.7 from Cummins are fairly widespread and semi-common. The 6.7 should have never replaced the workhorse 5.9L, much like Ford/International should have never strayed away from the 7.3L with the new 6.4L (the last of the International Diesels for Ford) or the new Ford built 6.7L Scorpion diesel. These newer engines were being designed with the 2010 smog laws in mind starting back in early 2001. I am a member of many diesel forums and follow the day in and day out complaints about all the new passenger/light truck diesels. GM, Ford and Chevy are all fighting stuff on these new 'green' engines.

wa8yxm 07-08-2010 05:51 PM

The thing is: Motor homes are made from several "Sources" Damon assembles the parts. But they did not make the engine, they did not make the chassis. and those are covered under their manufacturer's warranty and/or recalls.. Damon will fix some "Chassis" issues, (Did 2 on my rig) but that is only because they are an authorized repair facility for some chassis or some issues on some chassis.

You ask who's name is on the coach.

Well, there are at least 3

Damon (on the front and back)

Freghtliner (on the sides)
and Cummins (Likewise)

And it apperas it is the latter who you have issues with.

Mine says Damon (Front and rear)
Workhorse and Vortec on the sides (Vortec beign a GM engine) and guess what... My "MAJOR" issues.. Well...

Windshield: Damon, fixed
Fuel Clip: GM-Fixed
Brakes: BOSCH, via Workhorse, Bosch is taking their own sweet time, I do not have a problem though since I drive it often (no car)
Refrigerator (Recall) Dometic, Fixed
Microwave (Dometic by LG) and VCR (also LG) I fixed the first trashed the 2nd.

NOTE: I blame LG for the VCR, and Dometic for choosing LG on the Microwave.

I had a problem with the Dash-Air,, I think that should have been workhorse, Damon fixed it.. And with the dash display, A known workhorse issue, Damon fixed that too. I was at Damon having the windshield fixed at the time so they took care of everything wrong. Very nice people.

But your problem is clearly a chassis/engine, not a motor home complaint.

Chuck 1935 07-09-2010 09:02 AM

Lesson learned. Don't buy a new coach, buy used and get the extended bumper to bumper warranty. That way you get it cheaper and the poor soul that bought it new gets to fix all of the problems. These things are big kits. It's up to you to get it all working.

aschuerg 07-10-2010 04:03 AM

I am up for that. Warranty or not what a pain in the a_ _. If I would have bought a auto with that much problems someone else would have owned it.

wa8yxm 07-10-2010 08:05 PM

I will apologize, But I will say all the problems you enumurated in your original post were either Chassis or Drive Train.. I saw no "house' problems, nothing at all I could lay at damon's door (like my windshield)

As someone said. When you purchase from other than an authorized dealer, it is basically the same as a "USED" rig. and the factory has no obligation at all.

aschuerg 07-11-2010 04:04 AM

Actually, I bought it from a Damon Dealer the problems were so numerouse engine and drive train just topped the cake. I have a NEW Warranty just like you. Now my front window is starting to pop out. $ 900.00 estimate to repair they have to take it out and reseal it covered under warranty. Tried to sell it couldn't get more than 80K offer. What does that tell you. Buy the way Damon is now 4 winds.

Chuck 1935 07-11-2010 11:35 AM

The private party that I bought my USED MH from wanted to step up to a fancier brand. After buying it they then spent a month back at the factory trying to get the damn thing fixed. When I called them to thank them for the great coach he had sold me, he told me how sorry he was that he ever sold the coach and wanted to know if I would be interested in selling the coach back to him. Fortunatly for me I knew of irv2 and had spent a long time looking over all of the posts to see who had problems with the different brands and chassis before making my buying decision. What I find truly amazing are the number of inquiries about purchasing different brands of Motorhomes that people are complaining about because of brakes, engines, poor handeling etc. Because of this website I have had many many trouble free, happy miles. Than you irv2 for providing a source of information to enable prospective buyers the resource to make informed buying decisions.

Dave and Jaime 07-11-2010 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wa8yxm (Post 639362)
Ah, you purchased from a non-authorized dealer.. Now I start to understand

one thing you can be sure Damon understands is a guideline called the "Uniform Commericial Code" Most states have consumer protection laws that are based on this guideline.

What it says is the SELLER warrants.. Not the factory. IN practice if you buy from an authorized dealer then the factory will re-emburse them for repairs made under warranty.. And other authorized dealers will honor the warranty as part of their contract with Damon.

however if you buy from a non-authorized dealer.. Then it's up to them to do the warranty work.. Not Damon.. And of course they do not want to spend the money.

So your complaint is with "Joe's RV's" or whomever you bought from, not Damon who is only following the rules.

The reason many of us, myself included, are saying that we don't have any problems and in fact Damon has been fantastic is that I (And I assume the others) Purchased new from an authorized dealer.. Thus if I have a warranty problem (Well, HAD, since it's now out of warranty) or a Recall.. I can go to any authorized dealer and they will fix it, and if one of their customers is in the area I bought my rig and has an issue, they can go to my dealer and they will fix it.

But if you buy from someone who it not authorized, then that "I'll fix yours, you fix mine" is not included in the deal.


You don't quite have it right. The UCC is not a guideline, it is statutory law in every state (some minor changes from state to state but law nonetheless). Second, the UCC does not relieve the manufacturer. All depends on the warranty. I have a 2009 Honda CRV I bought from a Honda dealer. The warranty is from the manufacturer. If I sell you my used CRV (and I am not an "authorized" Honda dealer), you still get a warranty -- from Honda. So, buying from Joe's RV may create issues but if Damon has said it warrants the product for X miles and Y years, it doesn't matter if you buy from me or Joe's RV.

Lawyer in KC

wa8yxm 07-11-2010 12:09 PM

Actually the UCC is a guidline.. However you are right that the laws in most (if not all) States are modeled on the UCC. so .. It has the effect of a law.

However the precise wording varies from state to state.

Question: You said you are a Lawyer.. What is your speciality.. Do you do UCC cases?

(Just wondering, The only UCC type complaint I have had to date.. Would not be worth the typing let alone the filing fee)

Dave and Jaime 07-11-2010 12:19 PM

I have, in fact, litigated a number of UCC cases but most such cases are not consumer cases. Rather, they involve two commercial entities (I focus on commercial litigation). For example, if Damon were suing Freightliner for economic damages it suffered because of nonconforming chassis, it would likely fall under the UCC.

Few consumer cases justify the legal expenses involved, particularly where legal fees are not recoverable. The sad fact is that unless you have a claim worth a few hundred thousand or more, litigation costs will generally be prohibitive in all but the simplest of cases.

wa8yxm 07-11-2010 05:08 PM

Well.. as I said, the one case I could have brought the filing fee would have been greater than the settlement provided I won.. (in short it was a 25 dollar repair bill)

But I do agree that consumers should be familiar with both the UCC and with the many state consumer protection acts, which go by assorted names, as I suspect you know, which are all based on it.

Or in simple words: KNOW YOUR RIGHTS.

I might like to encourage you to make a series of posts outlining the UCC and state laws based upon it if you are willing and the moderators allow (I'm not a moderator) as for one I would be interested in reading.

Since you would only be speaking of either past cases (Settled) or hypothetical the rule in many forums about not discussing active litigation would not apply.. But, since you would by nature of the posts be advertising your service... That might be a problem.

jcthorne 07-12-2010 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aschuerg (Post 667708)
Tried to sell it couldn't get more than 80K offer. What does that tell you. Buy the way Damon is now 4 winds.

Typical depreciation for higher end coaches is approx 50% of actual retail loss the first year to 18months. That's the loss you take for buying new vs preowned.

Damon does not build 4 Winds, 4 Winds does not build Damon. Both are a part of Thor Industries, have been for some time. Damon is a seperate product line and remains so. Not sure what your point was here.

KC1BUD 09-13-2010 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wa8yxm (Post 666488)
The thing is: Motor homes are made from several "Sources" Damon assembles the parts. But they did not make the engine, they did not make the chassis. and those are covered under their manufacturer's warranty and/or recalls.. Damon will fix some "Chassis" issues, (Did 2 on my rig) but that is only because they are an authorized repair facility for some chassis or some issues on some chassis.

You ask who's name is on the coach.

Well, there are at least 3

Damon (on the front and back)

Freghtliner (on the sides)
and Cummins (Likewise)

And it apperas it is the latter who you have issues with.

Mine says Damon (Front and rear)
Workhorse and Vortec on the sides (Vortec beign a GM engine) and guess what... My "MAJOR" issues.. Well...

Windshield: Damon, fixed
Fuel Clip: GM-Fixed
Brakes: BOSCH, via Workhorse, Bosch is taking their own sweet time, I do not have a problem though since I drive it often (no car)
Refrigerator (Recall) Dometic, Fixed
Microwave (Dometic by LG) and VCR (also LG) I fixed the first trashed the 2nd.

NOTE: I blame LG for the VCR, and Dometic for choosing LG on the Microwave.

I had a problem with the Dash-Air,, I think that should have been workhorse, Damon fixed it.. And with the dash display, A known workhorse issue, Damon fixed that too. I was at Damon having the windshield fixed at the time so they took care of everything wrong. Very nice people.

But your problem is clearly a chassis/engine, not a motor home complaint.

Automobiles are made from many sources too but when you have a problem with a mirror not working you don't go to the manufacturer of the mirror, you go to The manufacturer of the car.

They, through their dealers, remove and replace the mirror and send the defective one to the company that made it for redress. Auto manufacturers have the ability to pressure the parts suppliers. Hell they have even driven some out of business by setting prices they would pay. Try going into your favorite clothing store and declare that you will no longer pay $15 for a shirt but only $10, that is what the automaker does to their suppliers.

If you own a 2010 Lingenfelter Camaro T/A and have a problem with the engine you take it to the dealer where you bought it, not to Lingenfelter, even though it was modified by Lingenfelter, even if it is a Lingenfelter part.

I think this is what the OP was talking about. The Makers of Motor homes do not treat parts suppliers the way auto makers do. The attitude of Motor home makers is that parts suppliers are responsible to the customer and that they are officially out of the loop once the sale was made.

azloafer 09-13-2010 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aschuerg (Post 637363)
Finally received the much anticipated Bosh injector pump. Was installed yesterday coach ran fine. Planned on picking it up Friday AM.
Received a call last evening " We found the original oil leak you have." OK " Your engine block is cracked."
My help from Damon has been NON EXISTENT. Cummings and Freightliner have been my only help. What I get from Damon Is "It's not our problem, and it covered by warranty"
Warranty if you get something for free and it doesn't work what good is it????????????
My next stop is my attorney Monday morning some one else is going to own this thing not me. One lesson I did learn never pay cash!!!
THE SAD PART ABOUT IT WE REALLY LIKE THE COACH.

I can understand how you feel. About fifteen years ago we bought a new coach and had one problem after another. The same thing happened in regard to who built what part of the coach and who should fix it. We finally told the dealer that we would not pick it up when a repair was not done just because it was a chassis problem. We would leave it sit there while we pursued legal action. We told them that we didn't care who built what...the dealer should see that everything is fixed on a new coach and not make us run all over. Anyway, to shorten a long story, after a few days the dealer called us and said that he would give us a different model coach which was a step up from the one we were having trouble with. That is how it was settled. Be sure to let the dealer know what you are planning to do and maybe they will work something out without you having to go the legal route.

It still amazes me that we have learned to accept problems and make lists of items that don't work on a brand new coach. We take a new coach out on a "shake-down cruise" and log all the defective items. If this was any other product like a car or truck, or a house, etc., we would never be expected to keep it and wait months for things to be fixed. I'll bet that many many coaches cost more than the house the owner's are living in. Hope it all ends well, Joe

Finhawk 11-14-2010 10:24 PM

I thought about a 40' Damon DP. After reading these comments, my Winni is looking a lot better! Gas and all.

bonabob 12-11-2010 11:59 AM

I feel your pain. You are absolutely correct. You bought your coach from a dealer with the Damon name on it. You will not find any other name on the outside of that unit. When something goes wrong so early in the ownership, you expect the manufacturer to orchestrate the repair. Your payment was made to the dealer and nobody else. Therefore it starts there.....dealer, manufacturer and then sub contractors. However Damon must take the lead in orchestrating these repairs and keep in close contact with you to make sure you are satisfied. We all wonder why Americans buy foreign cars, especially from Japan. It is not just quality, but good customer service.
Now my experience with Damon has been exceptional. I too bought a new unit and started to have problems with the coach. The dealer acted like a jerk, but Damon went to bat and acted like a maestro and orchestrated all of the repairs. They were in constant contact with me and made the necessary phone calls to different vendors to get the work done. I did have to move up the corporate chain and get to the right people, but that goes without saying. I went from hating my Damon to loving it and getting that real sense of security that the manufacturer, Damon will be there in time of need.

GSGracie 12-11-2010 01:11 PM

Why does anyone buy from a dealer, rather than a private seller? Apart from the ability to buy brand new, with presumably no worries about service history or bad driving history, it is because you now have ONE place to take it back to to get problems fixed. It seems to me the DEALER is the one who should be co-ordinating all the repairs, after all, they made some money on the sale. They should be contacting Damon with coach problems, Cummins with engine problems and Workhorse with chassis problems. What else do they do, apart from take delivery and then take your money? Who did you pay the money to? You did not pay three separate cheques to the different component specialists, you paid one cheque to the dealer. It seems that everyone is looking to go right to the top guy, which is in fact the dealers job. The dealer should fix or replace, then claim from the manufacturer under warranty. They have a lot more clout than a single purchaser who may only buy one product like this in their lifetime. Just my two cents worth, from ocross the other side of the world. Maybe your dealers have a different function to those in New Zealand, but if I am the dealer, it is MY reputation that is on the line, not the manufacturer, when it comes to service.

Chuck 1935 12-11-2010 03:13 PM

GSGracie, This is a long shot but, I sold my 1993 Fleetwood Flair to Murry and Dolores Frater from the North Island and are full timing it for a couple of years. They are a very nice couple and stayed with us when they were over here in California. I was just wondering if you ever ran across them by chance.

GSGracie 12-11-2010 03:39 PM

Hi Chuck - I am in the South Island, and although I drove the MH the full length of the North Isalnd to get it home, it was my first time in the Beast, so I didn't see much other than the centre line and the sides of the road. Hope to holiday around the North Island this Christmas or next - will keep an eye out for them, and say you said hi. Hope they were pleased with it, lol!

Chuck 1935 12-11-2010 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSGracie (Post 751257)
Hi Chuck - I am in the South Island, and although I drove the MH the full length of the North Isalnd to get it home, it was my first time in the Beast, so I didn't see much other than the centre line and the sides of the road. Hope to holiday around the North Island this Christmas or next - will keep an eye out for them, and say you said hi. Hope they were pleased with it, lol!

They love it. It's a diesel pusher that I did all the service on and just had it re striped with blue modern looking swishes on the sides. I told him about every bit and piece on the coach. I'll be darned if he didn't pull out some coveralls and a flashlight and crawl underneath. It turned out that he had been a bus mechanic and knew what he was looking for. He saw that everything I had said about the coach was true so we struck a deal and he shipped it back to New Zealand and did the right hand drive conversion himself.
Have a wonderful Christmas

jcthorne 12-12-2010 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonabob (Post 751166)
We all wonder why Americans buy foreign cars, especially from Japan. It is not just quality, but good customer service.

Oh horse puckey.

People keep buying japanese death traps. It simply is not true and has not been for years.

The absolute WORST vehicle customer service I ever had on any new vehicle purchase was with Mitsubishi and a pickup truck that left me stranded driving to work at 5am not once but 4 times and Mitsu stuck there head in the sand and had the gall to bill ME for towing and repair charges for 'no problem found' service tickets.

I suggest a look at who topped the JD Powers qualtiy and customer service lists this year. I'll give you a hint, it aint Toyota, Honda or Nissan or Benz.

Redapple 12-12-2010 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcthorne (Post 751503)
Oh horse puckey.

People keep buying japanese death traps. It simply is not true and has not been for years.

The absolute WORST vehicle customer service I ever had on any new vehicle purchase was with Mitsubishi and a pickup truck that left me stranded driving to work at 5am not once but 4 times and Mitsu stuck there head in the sand and had the gall to bill ME for towing and repair charges for 'no problem found' service tickets.

I suggest a look at who topped the JD Powers qualtiy and customer service lists this year. I'll give you a hint, it aint Toyota, Honda or Nissan or Benz.

I agree with you, and this year seems to be the year many Americans are seeing the light. Ford has posted the biggest profits since 2006, and GM after restructuring has posted its biggest profits since 1999. The quality has been comparable to the imports for more than a decade now. the problem was one of image/perception, and cost. The imports dealers provide no better service than the American dealers. My next car will be a Ford...

Bill

bonabob 12-13-2010 07:13 AM

Again, you are correct. Start moving up the corporate ladder. There is a Mr. Quinn in charge of customer satisfaction. Speak with him and if necessary move up the chain, all the way to the CEO, Peter Orthwein.
Go get them and good luck, let us know how you make out.


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