Tag Axle vs Single Axle

[jcussen]

And if you did not have a lifting tag, good chance you had a dumping tag, which took air out of the tag air bags, this basically put all the weight on the drive axle. If you get stuck in the snow because you think your tag is holding too much weight off your drive axle, think you need to read your manual again.

[rcnuts]

While I consider myself to be a technically oriented person, I believe this thread has played itself out. We are sure our tag handles better and provides a smoother ride than our 2 previous single axel units. Plain and simple. Load distribution?? Braking?? Hmmmmmm, I dont know and am not interested in analysis. Its difficult for me to believe I would ever overload our coach. (its called common sense) When I step on the brakes, she stops. Does anyone out there really think a substantial percentage of "campers" will calculate load distribution? C'mon!
Harris

[RM Art]

Originally Posted by rcnuts

While I consider myself to be a technically oriented person, I believe this thread has played itself out. We are sure our tag handles better and provides a smoother ride than our 2 previous single axel units. Plain and simple. Load distribution?? Braking?? Hmmmmmm, I dont know and am not interested in analysis. Its difficult for me to believe I would ever overload our coach. (its called common sense) When I step on the brakes, she stops. Does anyone out there really think a substantial percentage of "campers" will calculate load distribution? C'mon!
Harris

I agree with your post!

Best way to calc load distribution is to simply... not overload!

Use commonsense as to where things amounting to weight are placed. Proportion weights correctly in their respective locations where weight bearing is placed on wheels/axels/frame. In other words... Think!!

I've been boating with pleasure cruisers [as well as work boats] of from 23' to 50' for over 60 years [we own a 36' tri cabin Tollycraft now]. Talk about need for correct load distribution!! Trucks, cars, trailers, 5ths, RV's are not too different in requirement to not overload and have loads correctly proportioned to maintain trim as well as handling capabilities.

Moving vehicles of any sort are not the same as your rec-room closet. You should not simply stuff things in helter-skelter until every square inch is filled!

Be kind to your RV and it will be kind to you!!

[dandandan]

Originally Posted by Monaco Wolfy

I've spent many years with an RV in Mountain ski areas. I've never had a tag axle but no many is that have. Most of those was tag axles have had issues with the tag axle holding too much weight off the drive Wheels. Because of this they find themselves stuck in the snow. For my use I prefer a single axle in the rear.

This is a nuisance problem with tag axles. Low coefficient of friction and a lot of weight on the tag axle. Apparently people understand to change the weight distribution to the drive axle by unweighting the tag axle. So people do understand coefficient of friction and low weight on drive axle affect frictional forces between the tire and road for accelerating or decelerating.


Stopping a tag axle mh on a wet road can also be affected when the drive axle is under weighted and the tag axle is over weighted from the ideal 2/3 1/3 weight distribution even though neither axle is over weighted on the tag mh.


60% 40% weight distribution under weights the drive axle ideal braking from the equal weight on each tire 2/3 1/3 distribution. Poor weight distribution leads to lower frictional forces for the drive axle on a wet road. The abs will kick in earlier on a 60% 40% weight distribution than the ideal 2/3 1/3 distribution resulting in lower frictional braking force as it is 10% less weighted than the ideal weight distribution. A single axle does not have this problem and will brake better.


I have never said people are over weighting their tag MH. I have said the tag axle adds the complexity of accounting for weight distribution when braking.



This poster also indicated the weight distribution complexity in snow. But again the snow distribution issue I view as a nuisance issue while emergency braking on a wet road or when ever the abs kicks in is a significant safety issue.


Either buy a single axle mh or get the MH manufactures to stop delivering mhs with bad weight distribution. I just find it easier, cheaper, and safer to drive a single axle mh.

[dandandan]

Originally Posted by jcussen

Would really appreciate a reply to my post in #116.

I have kept this as simple as possible with 8th grade mathematics and first few weeks of a high school physics course where they teach frictional force is equal to the coefficient of friction times the normal weight against the surface. These are the primary factors.



Still people either do not understand or do not want to understand how weight distribution will affect the braking force.


tag vs non tag is an issue of weight distribution.


I have no intention of discussing minor secondary or tertiary factors that would confuse understanding.


A lot of people are underfunded for retirement. They would be a lot better off saving $40-50k on a less complex single axle mh with better braking. They don't need to be confused imo.

[JohnBoyToo]

but, but, but ---- two more shiny wheels makes it a no brainer


Simple - larger coaches without the tag will more than likely, but not always, but sometimes put too much weight on the drive axles - there that 'splains it !


and I love our tag - load the bays up for convenience and adjust tag pressure to push more weight to the front or less weight to the front

[jcussen]

Originally Posted by dandandan

I have kept this as simple as possible with 8th grade mathematics and first few weeks of a high school physics course where they teach frictional force is equal to the coefficient of friction times the normal weight against the surface. These are the primary factors.



Still people either do not understand or do not want to understand how weight distribution will affect the braking force.


tag vs non tag is an issue of weight distribution.


I have no intention of discussing minor secondary or tertiary factors that would confuse understanding.


A lot of people are underfunded for retirement. They would be a lot better off saving $40-50k on a less complex single axle mh with better braking. They don't need to be confused imo.

I am in awe of your superior knowledge, and appreciate your keeping this discussion at a level where all us high school dropouts can understand it. In future, I will try to keep common sense and practical experience out of the discussion. I will try not to ask questions, you think will confuse people, and refuse, or cannot, answer.
I do agree if you are underfunded for retirement , get the simplest, cheapest coach you can buy, but if you are comfortable in your retirement and want 4 slides, bigger tanks and bigger engines, don't think you will have a choice, it will be a tag, and you will just have to put up with all the disadvantages.

[RWDJR.]

So if you have a tag or not, and your pulling your toad or trailer, and the brakes are set up properly, that means you have 4 more brakes............. oh never mind

[Ivylog]

Originally Posted by dandandan

I have no intention of discussing minor secondary or tertiary factors that would confuse understanding..

What about the weight transfer to the front axle in heavy braking? Cars often have disks on the front and drum brakes on the rear because of 70% front and 30% rear braking... not a minor difference.

[dandandan]

Originally Posted by JohnBoyToo

but, but, but ---- two more shiny wheels makes it a no brainer


Simple - larger coaches without the tag will more than likely, but not always, but sometimes put too much weight on the drive axles - there that 'splains it !


and I love our tag - load the bays up for convenience and adjust tag pressure to push more weight to the front or less weight to the front

Every tag axle mh should have the ability to adjust weighting like yours. You never get to ideal weighting but you will get close enough that it is not significant.


My beef is with tag mhs that are delivered with no means of adjustment. Some are delivered with 60% 40% weight distribution. Even when delivered better what do you think happens to weight distribution when a heavy trailer or motorcycle lift is added? The weight distribution gets all out of whack and poor braking (especially on wet roads) and over weight steer axles result.


People should demand tag mhs like yours.


BTW, I have not seen single axle mhs significantly over weight on the drive axle. My current MH was under weight even when we were full timing.

[Windecker]

Originally Posted by dandandan

Every tag axle mh should have the ability to adjust weighting like yours. You never get to ideal weighting but you will get close enough that it is not significant.


My beef is with tag mhs that are delivered with no means of adjustment. Some are delivered with 60% 40% weight distribution. Even when delivered better what do you think happens to weight distribution when a heavy trailer or motorcycle lift is added? The weight distribution gets all out of whack and poor braking (especially on wet roads) and over weight steer axles result.


People should demand tag mhs like yours.


BTW, I have not seen single axle mhs significantly over weight on the drive axle. My current MH was under weight even when we were full timing.

Whatever

[dandandan]

Originally Posted by Windecker

Whatever

And people wonder why I try to keep the math and physics simple

[jcussen]

Originally Posted by dandandan

And people wonder why I try to keep the math and physics simple

Maybe because you are taking your very limited knowledge of tag axle coaches and are trying to apply it to every tag axle coach. Have had two tag coaches, one used the height control valve to automatically distribute weight between the axles, the other used a manual adjustable pressure valve to set weight on the tag axle.
You make a lot of assumptions when you say, this coach had problems with tag weight, so all tag coaches have problems. The physics and math for your problem coach do not necessarily apply to all coaches.
Do you really think that a $500000 Tiffin is built to the same engineering standards as a milllon dollar+ Newell, Foretravel, Prevost or King Aire?