Leveling & Slideouts

[dnystrom]

I think the coach should be level before the slides come out. This is what I do.
I dump the air,level the coach and run the slides out and then shut the engine off.
What's wrong with that?

[abarkl]

I bought my '03 Holiday Rambler Scepter 40' six months ago and this is from page 5.170 of the owner's manual;

NOTE: Perform the slide-out room operation with the air suspension system full. Extensive damage could occur to the slide-out room and awning when extending the slide-out room in snow, sleet, ice or freezing rain. In such conditions, if the slide-out room is extended, clear the awning and ensure free movement prior to operating the slide-out room.

And just above the note;

• Press and hold the front slide-out room switch in the OUT position. The slide-out room will slowly move to the OUT position. Release the switch to stop room movement. To continue the room movement, push and hold the switch in.
• Release the slide-out switch when the room is fully extended (a change in motor sound indicates extension). The slide-out drive motor will not stop automatically; the switch must be released.
• Level the motorhome with the leveling system.

[ShapeShifter]

Originally Posted by dnystrom

I think the coach should be level before the slides come out. This is what I do.
I dump the air,level the coach and run the slides out and then shut the engine off.
What's wrong with that?

Nothing at all, if that's what your manufacturer recommends, which in your case is probably true.

On the other hand, Monaco (parent company of the OP's Holiday Rambler) recommends just the opposite.

It's probably best to follow the manufacturer's recommendations: for you that means level first, for me and the OP (and most people in this brand-specific forum) that means only move the slides when the jacks are retracted and the air suspension is fully inflated.

The logic from Monaco is that the coach was built while standing on the fully inflated suspension, and that is when the frame is under the least stress, the openings are square and straight, and conditions are most like when they were built and adjusted. Other manufacturers have other opinions.

[huffypuff]

Originally Posted by ShapeShifter

Nothing at all, if that's what your manufacturer recommends, which in your case is probably true.

On the other hand, Monaco (parent company of the OP's Holiday Rambler) recommends just the opposite.

It's probably best to follow the manufacturer's recommendations: for you that means level first, for me and the OP (and most people in this brand-specific forum) that means only move the slides when the jacks are retracted and the air suspension is fully inflated.

The logic from Monaco is that the coach was built while standing on the fully inflated suspension, and that is when the frame is under the least stress, the openings are square and straight, and conditions are most like when they were built and adjusted. Other manufacturers have other opinions.

Yes but the manufacture floor is level so that may be true. Go to a rv park and coach is not level because the ground isn't level so you are not dealing with the same conditions. For that reason I level my coach first because it's more logical.

[ShapeShifter]

Originally Posted by huffypuff

Yes but the manufacture floor is level so that may be true. Go to a rv park and coach is not level because the ground isn't level so you are not dealing with the same conditions. For that reason I level my coach first because it's more logical.

I agree that it sounds logical. But while the coach may be leaning, the airbag suspension is relatively soft and has enough give that there is very little twist or strain on the chassis. Once you are up on the jacks, there is no more compliance in the suspension, you are on the hard jacks. The chassis is much more likely to be twisted or under strain under those conditions.

Don't believe me? When you're at that non-level RV site, and you're up on the jacks, do your compartment doors always line up properly? Or are they sometimes skewed in the openings some? If so, that's a clear sign of chassis twist. I've had times where you can clearly see that the "open" end of one compartment doesn't line up with the "hinge" end of the next door -- you can see it shifted by half an inch some times. I've even seen it where the door doesn't want to swing open all of the way because it hits the bottom of the extended slide. That happens to me fairly often when on jacks, but never when on the air suspension.

Still don't believe me? How many stories have you heard about people cracking or popping out their windshields while leveling their coach on the jacks? Probably quite a few. I know I came close to popping it out once. Now, how many stories do you hear about people popping out their windshields while driving? Probably not a lot, if any. In fact, the time I came close to popping mine out, a glass company could get it 95% of the way back in, but not perfectly aligned. Driving home from the glass shop actually worked the windshield back in place the last 5%. So in my book, being on the suspension definitely seems to be friendlier when it comes to chassis twist and strain.

So yes, I can see the logic for leveling first. But I can also see the logic for only moving slides while on the fully inflated airbags. For me, the possibility of having a twist in the chassis sounds like a significantly bigger concern than the slightly added load on the slideout motor as it tries to move an unlevel slide. You may see leveling first as helping the strain on the chassis, but I see it as making things worse.

[moleary]

I bet you will find manufacturers who recommend deploying the slide outs first build coaches with three jack leveling systems (1 in front and 2 at the rear). Each jack can be operated individually. Four jack systems usually operate the jacks in pairs. Three jack systems are easier to level, but induce a lot of twist and stress on the frame. I have made the mistake of trying to bring my slides in while the jacks are still down. On an uneven site it doesn't take long to realize my mistake. I can both hear and feel the slide binding.

[huffypuff]

Originally Posted by ShapeShifter

I agree that it sounds logical. But while the coach may be leaning, the airbag suspension is relatively soft and has enough give that there is very little twist or strain on the chassis. Once you are up on the jacks, there is no more compliance in the suspension, you are on the hard jacks. The chassis is much more likely to be twisted or under strain under those conditions.

Don't believe me? When you're at that non-level RV site, and you're up on the jacks, do your compartment doors always line up properly? Or are they sometimes skewed in the openings some? If so, that's a clear sign of chassis twist. I've had times where you can clearly see that the "open" end of one compartment doesn't line up with the "hinge" end of the next door -- you can see it shifted by half an inch some times. I've even seen it where the door doesn't want to swing open all of the way because it hits the bottom of the extended slide. That happens to me fairly often when on jacks, but never when on the air suspension.

Still don't believe me? How many stories have you heard about people cracking or popping out their windshields while leveling their coach on the jacks? Probably quite a few. I know I came close to popping it out once. Now, how many stories do you hear about people popping out their windshields while driving? Probably not a lot, if any. In fact, the time I came close to popping mine out, a glass company could get it 95% of the way back in, but not perfectly aligned. Driving home from the glass shop actually worked the windshield back in place the last 5%. So in my book, being on the suspension definitely seems to be friendlier when it comes to chassis twist and strain.

So yes, I can see the logic for leveling first. But I can also see the logic for only moving slides while on the fully inflated airbags. For me, the possibility of having a twist in the chassis sounds like a significantly bigger concern than the slightly added load on the slideout motor as it tries to move an unlevel slide. You may see leveling first as helping the strain on the chassis, but I see it as making things worse.

The problems you are talking is during the level not after. If your cargo doors are off it is not level. The cracking of windshield is due to unbalance leveling of the front during the leveling. That's why auto level on my coach jacks level the front last. It is also a good reason HR Monaco use a three jack system so not to twist the front during jacking. A tire company can crack your windshield by jacking up one side at a time with the air bags still inflated. So lots of help that did.

[ShapeShifter]

Originally Posted by huffypuff

It is also a good reason HR Monaco use a three jack system so not to twist the front during jacking.

And yet the frame can still twist during and after leveling, even with the three point jacks.

There is no perfect system that is infallible and results in no twist all of the time. Not air leveling, not three point jacks, not four point jacks, and not travel mode air bags. All will have some issues in some conditions. But I still agree with Monaco that the softer and more compliant air bags are less likely to have twist issues under the widest range of conditions, and therefore I feel their recommendations make sense. Personally, I've only seen signs of chassis twist while up on jacks, and have never seen it while on the air bags. Others will have different experiences.

[huffypuff]

Originally Posted by ShapeShifter

And yet the frame can still twist during and after leveling, even with the three point jacks.

There is no perfect system that is infallible and results in no twist all of the time. Not air leveling, not three point jacks, not four point jacks, and not travel mode air bags. All will have some issues in some conditions. But I still agree with Monaco that the softer and more compliant air bags are less likely to have twist issues under the widest range of conditions, and therefore I feel their recommendations make sense. Personally, I've only seen signs of chassis twist while up on jacks, and have never seen it while on the air bags. Others will have different experiences.

I checked my owners for both the leveling and the slides and there is no mention of which should be done first. I don't know where Monaco or HR made their recommendation but not in my owners manual. Who's on first, nobody on second.

[MSHappyCampers]

Originally Posted by huffypuff

I checked my owners for both the leveling and the slides and there is no mention of which should be done first. I don't know where Monaco or HR made their recommendation but not in my owners manual. Who's on first, nobody on second.

I called Monaco tech support on this one time, and they told me to only extend and retract the slides with the HWH system in the "Travel" mode.

[slemnah]

I love heated discussions like this. We are all going to do it the way we feel is correct. For me I follow Monaco's instructions and put the slides out first and then air level the system. This motorhome doesn't have jacks like my last HR. On that one I didn't have the manual so I did it the way logic tells me and that was to level it and then put out the slide. Don't know if I did it worng that way but never damaged the motor home.

[huffypuff]

Originally Posted by MSHappyCampers

I called Monaco tech support on this one time, and they told me to only extend and retract the slides with the HWH system in the "Travel" mode.

I don't have HWH in my coach it has Powergear. I win! slemnah pass the popcorn

[ShapeShifter]

Originally Posted by huffypuff

I checked my owners for both the leveling and the slides and there is no mention of which should be done first.

Correct. You won't find it in either of those two manuals. The leveler jack manufacturer doesn't know what kind of slides you have (if any) and the slide manufacturer doesn't know what kind of jacks you have (if any.) It's the combined system of coach, jacks, and slides that defines the situation, and only the coach manufacturer knows all of those details. It will be in the coach manufacturer's overall owner manual that you will find that information.

I don't know where Monaco or HR made their recommendation but not in my owners manual.

I'm guessing you didn't look very closely? It's quite clearly spelled out in my manual. But of course, my coach is different from yours.

Manuals for many HR coaches can be downloaded HERE. Unfortunately, they don't have the manual for the 2006 Admiral. They do have manuals for 2002 and 2007, which brackets your year, and they say the same thing. I think it would be unusual (but of course not impossible) for them to revise the manual in/before 2006, and then revise it back in 2007.

In all of the manuals (mine, 2002, and 2007) there is a chapter titled "Equipment" and a topic titled "Slide-Out Operation." In all three cases, the instructions detail how to prepare for the operation then open the slides, and the last step in each manual is "Level the motorhome with the leveling system." My manual has additional clear instructions about when to move the slideout, including stating to start the engine and retract the jacks before bringing the slides in. I didn't bother to study the Admiral manuals, as unfortunately the information isn't in one easily digested paragraph but scattered about the manual and I don't feel it's worth the effort of searching for it for the sake of this discussion. (I've wasted too much time already on this.)

Originally Posted by slemnah

We are all going to do it the way we feel is correct.

Absolutely! Everyone is the master of their own coach, and has the right to operate it in the way they see fit. (Well, within reason: nobody has the right to drive it at high speed through a crowd of people. )

Everyone will have their own opinions on the matter, and most will do it their own way regardless of what others say. But the point of the thread is that along with all of these personal opinions, Monaco has their own recommendation, presumably based on their own engineering analysis. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, just trying to explain my interpretation of what Monaco has written (and trying to point out where it is written so that others can make an informed decision on what they will do with their own coaches.)

[SpursMVP]

Originally Posted by CampingCajun

Slides out. Dump air. Level coach. Reverse order when breaking camp.

Yep...this is what our 2001 HR Endeavor owners manual states. Been doing it for 6 years now and works like a charm. We've had this question before and there have been some VERY heated debates with owners of other brands and it seemed like the goal was to get me to not follow the owners manual. Some asked me questions like "if the manufacturer told you not to change the oil, would you?" You get my drift.