03 Horizon and 110v GFI shore power

[Winnie03]

hello all, I am a new owner of a 2003 horizon with 50A power and xantrex freedom inverter/charger that worked when i bought it adapted to 30a.


The storage place i have it only has 110v GFI outlets. So I bought adapters for 50a to 30a and 30a to 110v 3 prong and plug it in and after 39-60 seconds the GFI trips off. Ive turned off the battery isolation switch same problem.



Am i hooking it up wrong or could there be a ground fault i need to track down?


Thanks
Paul

[MrMark52]

What GFI trips? In the coach, or the storage place’s GFI?

First I’ll say that there are a lot of members on here who will say GFI’s wired in series don’t place nice. For sure you’ve got at least 1 GFI in your coach. Test trip it and don’t reset it. If the problem persists, you know that’s not the issue.

I had similar nuisance tripping happening to our coach - the service plug on the house kept tripping.
I isolated it down to be the heating element on the Norcold adsorption refrigerator by first test tripping the GFI in the bathroom - the house GFI kept tripping.
I then unplugged the refrigerator - the house GFI quit tripping.
Then I plugged the refrigerator only into the extension cord - house GFI started tripping again.

Problem was, the trip wasn’t immediate. It would sometimes go for days before it would trip.

Then one day I was out installing an ARP Fridge Defend and when I wiggled some wires, the GFI tripped. Inspected all the 120vac wiring (all good), reset the house GFI again - and it trips again. Reset again, it held for a few minutes, tripped. Reset, it held, I swung the heater around, it trips again.

Bought a new heat element - no issue since and I can swing the element around all I want.

Didn’t think to measure the resistance of the heat element to the case of the heater before I tossed the heater.

[Old-Biscuit]

Go to your MAIN RV AC Power Panel
Open the 50A Main CBS and ALL of the individual circuit CBs

Then Reset the Storage GFCI outlet/breaker
If it trips then you need to check power cord/adapters especially if any of them are the 'puck' style vs 'dogbone' type
If it does NOT trip,,,,,,then close the RV 50A CBs
No Trip...then close Each Individual Circuit CBs one at a time until you find the circuit that causes the GFCI to trip

*Many times it is the fridge AC heater Element ---fridge will work ok just that there is enough of a current leakage to cause the GFCIs trip (as little as 5ma between Hot and Ground)

[Winnie03]

MrMark I guess i should have said it is the GFI on the storage power pole. I went there today and opened the transfer box and checked connections. I found the shore neutral connection was very loose so I tightened it but that didn't fix it. Thanks Biscuit for that suggestion Ill go tomorrow and isolate all the fused circuits and try to locate the fault and report back. the adapters are both the yellow camco dogbones and I use a 12ga 25' cord from the coach to the pole.


on another note i pulled the air filter and it has the factory sticker from 03 so it has 19 yrs and 56k miles on it. Shocked it wasn't caked or falling apart but a lot of silty dust went everywhere.

[cbeierl]

Originally Posted by Winnie03

...
The storage place i have it only has 110v GFI outlets. So I bought adapters for 50a to 30a and 30a to 110v 3 prong ...

Just to clear up a little confusion here everything you are dealing with is 110V (actually 120V these days). The 50A connection is two different 120V circuits (each of 50A for a total of 100A available), the 30A is one 120V circuit, and so is the 20A (or 15A) "3 prong" outlet you're working with.

The 30A to 50A adapter connects the one 30A circuit to both circuits on the 50A side, providing a total of 30A to everything in the coach if connected to a 30A source. Connecting to a 20A (or 15A) circuit with the 20A/15A to 30A adapter further reduces the total power available to the coach to either 20A or 15A, depending on the actual outlet you're connected to.

[The 50A could also be considered 1 240V 50A circuit, but that's not how your RV makes use of it.]

[MrMark52]

Originally Posted by Winnie03

MrMark I guess i should have said it is the GFI on the storage power pole. I went there today and opened the transfer box and checked connections. I found the shore neutral connection was very loose so I tightened it but that didn't fix it. Thanks Biscuit for that suggestion Ill go tomorrow and isolate all the fused circuits and try to locate the fault and report back. the adapters are both the yellow camco dogbones and I use a 12ga 25' cord from the coach to the pole.


on another note i pulled the air filter and it has the factory sticker from 03 so it has 19 yrs and 56k miles on it. Shocked it wasn't caked or falling apart but a lot of silty dust went everywhere.

Biscuit’s right - all I can add is you might try flipping circuits on 1 at a time and note if there is one in particular that trips it. Process of elimination. 😀


As for the air filter, I would strongly suggest you get an OBDII code reader and monitor your short and long term fuel ratios as well as coolant temperature - especially if your not aware of what Workhorse did in software to not allow the temp gage to read correctly.
I used my FoxWell N301 to record live data as I drove down the road. If you don’t have a scanner yet, may I recommend the FoxWell NT301 (may be NLA - might have to go with the NT530).
Used that data to have discussion with Jon at Brazel’s who helped me diagnose a bad MAF, even though the engine ran fine, it’s just the Long Term Fuel Trims we’re in the 20’s, even after changing plugs and wires (41-101 plugs gapped at .060 and Ultra wires from Brazel’s).
I had pulled the MAF and cleaned it in alcohol, but it was still the culprit.

Oh, and check if your engine has the fuel dampener on the injector fuel rail, just above #7. Pull the vacuum line off and see if you get raw gas. It you do, you need a new fuel dampener. Mine was shot - and when it fails, it dumps raw gas into the intake manifold between #7 and #8. Not good.

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by cbeierl

Just to clear up a little confusion here everything you are dealing with is 110V (actually 120V these days). The 50A connection is two different 120V circuits (each of 50A for a total of 100A available), the 30A is one 120V circuit, and so is the 20A (or 15A) "3 prong" outlet you're working with.

The 30A to 50A adapter connects the one 30A circuit to both circuits on the 50A side, providing a total of 30A to everything in the coach if connected to a 30A source. Connecting to a 20A (or 15A) circuit with the 20A/15A to 30A adapter further reduces the total power available to the coach to either 20A or 15A, depending on the actual outlet you're connected to.

[The 50A could also be considered 1 240V 50A circuit, but that's not how your RV makes use of it.]

The 50 amp must be considered a 120/240 volt service. The 2 120 volt legs share a single neutral. There will be 240 volts in your RV panel.

[cbeierl]

Originally Posted by twinboat

The 50 amp must be considered a 120/240 volt service. The 2 120 volt legs share a single neutral. There will be 240 volts in your RV panel.

Good point!

[Jim18655]

The shore power GFCI will trip if the leakage exceeds 5mA. You could have several devices that each have less than 5mA leakage but if all on at the same time will exceed the shore power GFCI 5mA threshold.

[Winnie03]

Thanks all for the reply's,
I turned off all the breakers and the GFI no longer trips. So should just be a matter of turning each one on to locate the faulty circuit/device. I got sidetracked tho taking out the screeching vent blower in the dash so get back to it eventually.



I did read an overly long 240/120 volt thread so i understand there are 2x 120v mains so NOT to plug the 3 prong 30a into a 240v outlet. Once shore power is connected i think I'm supposed to configure the amps On the Xantrex control panel accordingly. Still have a bit to learn there also.



mrmark this coach is freightliner XC with a Cat diesel so don't think those automotive OBD scanners will work?

[vsheetz]

RVs and GFCI protected shore power often do not play well together - often due to ground fault situations that can be inherent to RVs.

Best to swap out the GFCI or use different non GFCI protected circuit.

If you want to try to isolate a ground fault source to a device or appliance during it's operation. Drop all breakers in the main/sub breaker panel. Then bring them on individually until it trips. Else it's a matter of disconnecting device or appliances - by unplugging or disconnecting wiring.

A ground fault may be occuring when the inverter relay transfers the neutral/ground bonding. It may be timing sensitive - so occurs intermittently.

Note. GFCI do not trip on excess power draw, rather a ground fault. Unless - its current sensor has saturated (ensure charger shore setting is reduced, no air conditioning on, etc). So excess current us a possibility. Ensure all high power draw items are turned off when connecting shore power.

Storage facilities putting in GFCI protected circuits are a problem. If one can't get rid of the GFCI, solutions are to store without power or use separate from the coach battery maintainers.

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by Winnie03

Thanks all for the reply's,
I turned off all the breakers and the GFI no longer trips. So should just be a matter of turning each one on to locate the faulty circuit/device. I got sidetracked tho taking out the screeching vent blower in the dash so get back to it eventually.



I did read an overly long 240/120 volt thread so i understand there are 2x 120v mains so NOT to plug the 3 prong 30a into a 240v outlet. Once shore power is connected i think I'm supposed to configure the amps On the Xantrex control panel accordingly. Still have a bit to learn there also.



mrmark this coach is freightliner XC with a Cat diesel so don't think those automotive OBD scanners will work?

Don't leave the inverter/charger breaker off to long, you may end up with a bunch of dead batteries.
Once that happens, it won't recharge them and you will need a battery charger.

[MrMark52]

Originally Posted by Winnie03

mrmark this coach is freightliner XC with a Cat diesel so don't think those automotive OBD scanners will work?

I know ScanGage D is for diesels and many on this board rave about them. I gave the gasser version a try, didn’t like it, sold it. Like my FoxWell much much better. Don’t know if they have one for diesel or not.

[Almost There]

I had the same issue.
When I traced it back it turned out to be the convection oven. Unplugged it and everything was fine.
Never bothered to find out why but did extensive testing to ensure no hot skin condition.