2002 Brave No power at the back of the water heater

[Warrior22]

I have an Atwood GCH6A-9E water heater on my 2002 Brave 36M. It works on propane. On electric it does not. Cannot have propane delivered to the park that I reside in due to codes. Electric is flat rate and I would rather run it on electric anyway. Main fuse at breaker panel is on and have reset it. There is also a light switch neat the fridge labeled water heater, it is on. There is also a Water Heater rocker on the main power panel above the Powerline Management panel, it is on. (I believe this switch is for when you use propane. I have tried turning it both off & on and leaving the breaker and other light switch on.)
Below the rv, with the slider out the is a 1'x6" accesss panel to get to the back of the water heater. There I found there is a rocker switch, but it is on. It has what looks to be black window urethane or caulk over it, like it was supposed to stay on. Anyway, while I was there I tested the element, @13.5 ohms. I have a contact probe and there is no juice on the romex wire coming into this box to power it. This, I believe, is the problem
I also took the front of the breaker panel off and breaker appears to be wired and functional. There is come kind of circuit board in the breaker panel, not sure what it is?
So, how to I get my water heater to run on shore power? Have read numerous threads and tried any suggestions that sounded good. Is there another secret panel behind a wall opened by a secret button like some cruel game of clue? HELP!

Thanks in advance!

[Old-Biscuit]

That version of Atwood has a Set of T-stats (Normal & ECO) under that protective cover on backside

120VAC power comes from a CB to that OEM On/Off Switch on that cover
From the switch AC goes to/thru ECO then to/thru T-stat and to element
If ECO has tripped......NO AC to element
ECO (Energy Cut Off--Hi temp) has to be manually reset...push button down n center of t-stat.
S/B a plug/opening on Cover to allow access w/o having to remove cover...use eraser end of pencil to reset


*RV MFGs add on/off switch for AC inside RV....leaving OEM switch on so not having to access it for AC operation
(Light switch for AC inside RV)

Voltmeter...
test for AC at RV Light Switch, test for AC at OEM switch, test AC to ECO, test AC to T-stat
Reset ECO if tripped....but if tripped then should replace ECO & T-stat cause T-stat has failed (ECO trips when T-stat doesn't open/control heating cycle)


See items #25



ECO/T-stat Set
https://pdxrvwholesale.com/products/...ar-mount-91873

Parts break down '9E' version
https://pdxrvwholesale.com/products/...9e-tune-up-kit

[Warrior22]

Thanks Biscuit!!!!!!!!!

I will do all of the above tomorrow. Sounds like tstat/eco are the culpit(s). I looked for button but did not see. From what I have read I am 'blessed' to have such a large access plate, but it is still challenging to get at. Possible but challenging. So I will look again. Too bad I coudn't just reset it, but good that my expectations are grounded now.

I thought I checked kitchen switch earlier and it was dead, but I just checked it now and it has power. Your explanation makes sense, there needed to be a way to turn it on from inside. That is the purpose of that switch. Also explains why the back one is semi glued ON.

I am not very savy with the volt meter, watched a youtube on how to test the element. Will educate myself on the tests you req'd and hopefully have results asap. [EDIT] " test for AC at OEM switch, test AC to ECO, test AC to T-stat" Come to think of it, actually I did probe all those with my contact probe and got nothing. I will double check now as I don't remember getting power at the kitchen switch but it now has it.

In researching I read many posts, your answers were always the most knowledgeable ones I saw, so I am grateful that you answered. THANK YOU!!!!

[Warrior22]

Update: located reset button, clicked it in. repowered and probed. There is now power at the box on back of heater, power on the eco & tstat, power on the element. rechecked button, it seems to be IN. Going to wait a half hour with fingers crossed and see if the water gets warm. I don't hear anything, like creaking I would expect with expansion.

[Old-Biscuit]

Originally Posted by Warrior22

Update: located reset button, clicked it in. repowered and probed. There is now power at the box on back of heater, power on the eco & tstat, power on the element. rechecked button, it seems to be IN. Going to wait a half hour with fingers crossed and see if the water gets warm.

Normal T-stat should open at 140*F/closes for reheat cycle at 110*F
ECO trips at 180*F/ECO can be reset when water temp drops below 150*F

ECO is safety backup to Normal T-stat.....time for new 120VAC set

[Warrior22]

it didn't get hot. felt maybe a slight raise in temp. checked connections and tried again, nothing.
now there is no power at the back of the unit again. power is at the kitchen switch. patience is evaporating. is the eco bad and cutting off power?

[Warrior22]

I did order new eco and tstat. will wait for that.

[TandW]

Agree with O B's expertise. In fact, had to replace the operating stat on my year 2000 unit about three years back. However, am confused when you reported no AC current on the feed wires/Romex, then you managed a reset. Please be careful.

[Warrior22]

Originally Posted by TandW

Agree with O B's expertise. In fact, had to replace the operating stat on my year 2000 unit about three years back. However, am confused when you reported no AC current on the feed wires/Romex, then you managed a reset. Please be careful.

That is what I don't understand either. Only thing i caan think of is the eco or tstat must shut power off before it gets to the box somehow. I'm hoping that solves it

Will do on the caution advice. I always start with the contact probe to see what is hot before I stick my hand in there.

[Old-Biscuit]

If 120VAC power is OFF before it gets to the OEM switch/set of t-stats then issue is at the 15A CB or Neutral wire connections

OEM switch could be faulty...but you would have AC to it

T-stat or ECO faulty....you would have AC power from the switch but stopping at t-stat or at ECO

Where are you placing the 'common' probe of voltmeter when check the AC voltage?

What 'contact probe' are you using?

[Warrior22]

I haven't tested voltage at back switch with voltmeter, I guess I am a little intimidated by doing as it is tight back there and I don't want to get zapped.

probe I used was harbor freight "non contact" ( I had the name wrong before) type one like this picture:



I was hoping it was the tstat or eco that somehow was being sensed upstream and cutting off the power. I already ordered them.

[TandW]

Originally Posted by Warrior22

I haven't tested voltage at back switch with voltmeter, I guess I am a little intimidated by doing as it is tight back there and I don't want to get zapped.

probe I used was harbor freight "non contact" ( I had the name wrong before) type one like this picture:



I was hoping it was the tstat or eco that somehow was being sensed upstream and cutting off the power. I already ordered them.

Get yourself a good quality meter or probe with two separate test leads. Always test your meter or probe first by checking voltage on something known to be properly energized. Please don't rely on your non-contact probe at all. We want you to continue to contribute.

[Old-Biscuit]

T-stat/ECO ONLY stops AC to element.....downstream from them

Everything Upstream is controlled by OEM Switch, RV MFG added switch then 15A CB


Not fond of Contact Probes as they only indicate IF there is Current Flow.....NOT if wire is energized but no complete circuit


Voltmeter is RVrs friend !


Best to start at the 'beginning'........
15A CB...check the black wire (Load) connection/TIGHT & check the white wire (Neutral Buss) connection/TIGHT
*Measure that you have 120VAC from CB

Check black wire (Hot) connections at RV MFG Added Switch, white wire (Neutral) connection & ground connection
*Measure that you have 129VAC to/thru that Switch

Then check the OEM Switch...black (Hot) to/thru switch

Then is necessary......black (hot) to/thru T-stat
Then to/thru ECO

Element....
With AC ON check AC to (Black) and from (White) wires/connections
With AC OFF....continuity tests disconnect white wire.
1)Test for continuity between black & white terminals
*NO Continuity/Bad element
2) Test for continuity between black terminal and element flange
*Shows Continuity---element shorted out


Somewhere along that AC circuit you will find....bad/loose connection or bad component.
Could be faulty CB
Could be RV MFG added switch
Could be OEM Switch
Could be T-stat
Could be ECO
Could be element
Could be bad/loose wiring connections at anyone of those

[Warrior22]

Parts arrived today, and though it was likely they weren't the problem I had a replacement ECO, TStat, and element & wrench at the ready, and the tank don't leak. Nothing was going to stop me, I figured.

Got a box with all the parts and tools together, put a large piece of cardboard under the RV and slid into position to do battle. I was removing the cover and shifted my position a little and it happened. CRUNCH. Knelt on the multimeter. Crushed it. Took a break to regroup and form a new battle plan. Decided to really focus on tracing the power as Biscuit said. Decided to use my beloved non contact probe and at least get an idea of where it was failing. It was better than nothing. Started with Kitchen switch off, Circuit Breaker off, Unplugged from service, then reconnected.

Power at Main breaker, check. Flipped it on.
Power at WH Breaker. Flipped it on,
Power at Kitchen switch, check. Flipped it on
No power at OEM switch at back. Grrrrrr.

So it was between Kitchen Switch and OEM that it was losing power.
Looking at the diagram Atwood sent it there wasn't anything on the electric side that could shut off power. Newer ones have a relay but this is an 02 and does not. Decided to look at kitchen switch first. Unscrewed plate from wall and pulled it out mostly to see where the wires ran and how it would be if I had to somehow pull wire from there to Water Heater. But after I had it out, started probing it and found there was power coming into it, but not leaving on the Romex. It was intermittant, I could flip the switch and sometimes get power on the out side and sometimes not. Looking closer at the switch, it is an utter piece of junk. The switch and plate are one piece, and the wire connections are PUNCH DOWN TERMINALS. Pics Below. Went to hardware store, trying not to speed but speeding anyway. Got a switch, and a plate. Zipped back and installed those. Discovered switch is not standard size, it is smaller than standard size you get at hardware store. Cut down bottom of plate with serrated steak knife like a madman. Installed it. Turned it on and tested it and.....

IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pics below:

Shut it off, ran the hot water out from faucet, once cool I put the box back together ( including the insulating plate and nuts holding the box on.) Probed one last time to verify power at the water heater and closed up access panel.
Nice hot water. I don't think the previous owner realized it was electric AND propane, he didn't know what the kitchen switch was. So hopefully it is like new and has had little use. But if not, I have a new ECO, Tstat, and Element.

Anyways thanks to Biscuit & all of you for your help and support, you can close this ticket.





Punch down terminals on back:



VICTORY!!!!



For you Winnebago owners, this is the kitchen switch we are talking about: