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05-02-2021, 12:24 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Troy, MT
Posts: 11
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2002 Freightliner Chassis - No Dash or start power issue
I have a 2002 Winnebago Journey with a 330 cat. I have been battling an interment issue where I go to start the coach and turn the key and NOTHING "dead" I have all good batteries (new house batteries) and tested OK start batteries. I have attached pictures of relays I am testing and issues I have found. Ive read may threads on issues. The only thing that is working are the emergency flashers, everything else is dead on the dash. The trombetta relay has power on both sides all the time and to clicking when key is turned on, the relay that goes off of it is also live 12 vdc on both sides. Ive tested and check power on fuse block. Any assistance is appreciated to solve my issue and have confidence I can go somewhere with the motor home without getting stranded.
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05-02-2021, 07:01 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 31,435
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Ok , last picture , left side is a 12 volt circuit breaker , right side is the starter relay; that would only have power out while the engine is cranking .
I have to ask ,if by nothing , you mean the dash warning lights don't light up in bulb check mode , and the gauges don't come on . Or just the the engine doesn't crank when you turn the key to start ?
Note : I've replaced my starter relay twice for a no crank condition.
There should be a second 12 volt C/B nearby for the Cat intake manifold heater .
Some pdfs that might be some help .
__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
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05-02-2021, 08:39 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 31,435
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Ok , a re-read of your post; and you say only the 4 way flashers work .
Four way flashers are straight battery power and operate without ignition input.
So power from the batteries is getting to the Freightliner fuse boxes at the front of the coach . To power the non ignition items , flashers ; headlights should also work.
Other relays you've pictured are Winnebago installed and should be covered if you go to this site for diagrams .
www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/Wiring.htm
__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
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05-03-2021, 07:58 AM
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#4
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Troy, MT
Posts: 11
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The front dash does not light up, yes the headlights also come on. Nothing else comes on when the key is turned on.
Thank your for the wiring diagrams. This is helpful when I'm testing. Question: The Trombetta Relay (front) Is it supposed to always be (NC) without power on it? Both of those relays have power across them without the key on?
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05-03-2021, 09:45 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 900
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Just curious - have you checked the ignition key switch itself to make sure it's working, power there, no shorts etc? I had one go wonky on me several years back and had similar issues.
__________________
Ed & Joie
2004 Vectra 40KD
Freightliner Chassis and Cummins ISC
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05-03-2021, 09:59 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 31,435
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I would suspect that the relays are a locking type and can only guess at their function.
A locking ( latching ) relay requires only momentary power to activate ( de-activate the , high amperage power path. Most times used in coaches for battery power connect/disconnect , and judging by the cable size , I'd say that's what they do in your case.
Locking relays are covered in the pdf below , along with other RV related electrical. ( and I don't know how to separate the relay info )
In the wiring schematic , you'll see a fuse box/ relay lay out , note there are 2 ignition relays , one in the box you pictured with unpowered fuses and a second larger relay in a separate box . The pdf being for a 2001 chassis , could be slightly different , check the inside of the box cover for your exact layout .
I believe your issue is most likely with the ignition relays in the Freightliner boxes or the ignition switch .
__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
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05-06-2021, 12:44 PM
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#7
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Troy, MT
Posts: 11
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Follow-Up - Still not fixed!
OK I purchased a new ignition switch and once the new one was installed and key turned on, all the dash lights and functions came alive and she stared fine. So happy, but wait! Then the next day I went to start her up and its right back to turning the key and nothing. It did this same thing when I put the new house batteries in and also had the main batteries out (so coach was without power for a few days) and it started right up, then the next day it was nothing when key was turned on. I cant seem to not think something is wrong with the constant power on both sides of the trombetta relay, when the ignition switch was removed the power was removed from this and the other relay (see initial post pics) So when you turn the key off shouldn't that relay drop out to a N.O. status? and even if its closed why would it matter, right? I'm really dumbfounded on this issue. :(
PS: Ive since disconnected the batteries and reconnected but no effect on this issue. Maybe it needs to sit for a longer period of time without power then power up to start? I know I am rambling but at a loss as to what can cause this issue
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05-06-2021, 02:49 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 31,435
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Ok , from the chassis batteries , the dash power goes to the , 12 volt circuit breaker in your , picture with the starter relay beside , then to a power stud between the chassis harness and the dash harness , UNLESS Winnebago has wired in a chassis battery disconnect relay . Is there a switch marked , " Main battery or chassis battery disconnect " anywhere in the coach ? The trombetta is a Winnebago install and unless Winnebago interrupted the Freightliner power cable with it , that's not your problem.
I doubt there is a chassis battery disconnect , because when you're having your problem , the flashers and headlights work ; so the power cable, from the chassis batteries , through the circuit breaker, to the dash harness is suppling power for the non ignition controlled circuits .
You've changed out the ignition switch ; and that should eliminate that as a defective component in the circuit , next would be the ignition relays .
From the pdf showing the fuse and relay layout in the power distribution centers, it would appear that , the ignition 1 relay is the same type as the horn relay and the ignition 2 relay is the same as the marker light relay .
Swap the relays around to see if the erratic problem moves to the other circuits.
__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
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05-08-2021, 05:17 PM
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#9
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Troy, MT
Posts: 11
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Follow-Up - Still not fixed!
OK I went to try your suggestions on Friday and turned the key, everything lite up ready to go, so I just turned it off and walked away.
Came back this morning and sure enough, it was dead, nothing when you turned the key on. See picture, I switched around the relays Ign Relay F/L and ACC Relay F/L in block 4 bottom, nothing happened. Also switched around Ignition sense relay F/L and DRL Ign Relay F/L in block 2 Top , nothing happened. Also tested this block and found 12v power on relays. Switched marker lamps with Ignition Relay 2 F/L in block 3 Top and nothing happened, Fuses are good in block 2 MAXI FUSE Bottom
Block 1 fuses bottom has no power and fuse Ign 3 in block 4 Top has no power.
RED IS 12V POWER AND BLUE IS NO 12V POWER
Just to help other I have attached pic of the ignition switch NAPA part number ii your ignition looks like this one. Hoping I can get this issue solved with your help Thank you
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05-08-2021, 05:41 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 31,435
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Ok , I'll take your pictures and description and go through the wiring schematic to see how these relays interact with the ignition switch ; and post back .
Question ; when you were testing the relay sockets for power ; with the ignition on there should have been two connectors showing power , the relay hot ( from the battery) for the load and, from the ignition , the activation power for the relay to pass power to the load circuit.
Did you have, two 12 volt power wires at the relay socket with the key on ?
__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
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05-09-2021, 07:04 AM
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#11
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Troy, MT
Posts: 11
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I only saw power on one pin on each relay
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05-09-2021, 10:39 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 31,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delrae
I only saw power on one pin on each relay
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To me that indicates that the relay isn't getting activation signal ( power) from the ignition switch .
Looks like the circuit ;# 52 and it's sub circuits from the ignition switch are the issue .
I don't know if your dash wiring and mine are similar , but on mine there is a jumper harness that goes from the multiple connector that plugs onto the ignition switch , to another multiple connector ( different shape ) at the main dash harness . If memory serves the jumper harness was approx 15" long .
Have a look , by following the wiring from the ignition switch , if there is a second connector before the main harness , you need to be sure all the wires are properly seated and you have a good tight connection there.
At least the 2001 wiring schematics have the fuse numbers on them to cross over to the box diagram , that's something that the schematics for my 1999 doesn't have .
I'll continue to follow the circuits and the way the power gets to the non powered fuses and see if I can add anything else.
__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
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05-18-2021, 01:10 PM
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#13
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Troy, MT
Posts: 11
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I apologize I have not responded until now. Ive had a merdical issue and not been able to crawl down and under the dash. Hopefully I can do those suggested checks newt week and I'll post my results. Thank you
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05-18-2021, 01:19 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 31,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delrae
I apologize I have not responded until now. I've had a medical issue and not been able to crawl down and under the dash. Hopefully I can do those suggested checks newt week and I'll post my results. Thank you
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Sometimes , life gets in the way , of our plans .
Been there, etc. wore out the T shirt .
Hope your 100% and we can sort this out real soon .
__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
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