After-market Automatic Generator Start (AGS) device installation

[Hikerdogs]

My error. You are correct in that this year the Intent is the entry level model. Having said that there are far more differences than the price of the AGS that make up the $20,000.00 difference in between the Vista and the Adventurer.

The last time we were looking for a motorhome we were also somewhat baffled by the differences in price. A little close look revealed that while all models have some of the same amenities the brands of those amenities vary widely from model to model. We also found that if we added and upgraded only the few items we thought we needed the cost in some cases was extremely close, and in other cases exceeded the cost of the next model level up.

Before making a final decision I would do a walk through on the models you are comparing. Look at the microwave, furnace, entertainment system, AC unit(s), furniture, counter tops, flooring etc., etc. I think you'll find a marked difference in the brands and quality level of those items.

I would also compare the chassis each motorhome is built on. In many cases the less expensive motorhome is built on a lighter, shorter chassis than the same size model of the next level up. Be sure to look at the exact model year you are interested in purchasing. A quick look at past year model brochures shows in some years there is a huge variation in chassis used for different models. In other years there is little or no difference.

If you intend to put a significant number of miles on your motorhome I would get the longest wheelbase, heaviest capacity chassis available for that model. I think you'll fine the handling and ride characteristics are considerably better on the larger capacity chassis.

Our 2013 Adventurer is built on a 22,000 chassis with a 228" wheelbase. We haven't had to make any modifications or add any after market products to improve ride or handling. If you visit the Ford Chassis forum on this site you'll find people adding hundreds and thousands of dollars in after market products to attempt to improve ride and handling. It might be worth the investment of slightly more money on an initial purchase than trying to chase nagging problems throughout the life of the motorhome.

[smlranger]

If you have a Magnum inverter their AGS is an easy install. Once installed you operate the AGS from the Magnum control panel.

[dkoldman]

Yes it has Magnum inverter and I admit it is an option. But I talked with Cummins Onan and the 3 year warranty is not impacted by the EC-30, plus I want the digital readout
to make it easier to set and monitor voltage etc. Additionally Winnebago is installing
the EC-30 on similar units. I was seeking assistance on how others may have installed themselves based on this thread but no luck. It looks as if I will have the Winnebago dealer do. They have yet to say what the labor will cost. Thanks

[dkoldman]

Not sure when you last looked, but I think I alluded to the differences earlier between the Vista VE and the Adventurer 29B. By far the full body paint is about 60% if not more of the $20k. We are not interested in paying $12k more for full body paint. My guess Winnebago may value that AGS at around $3k. I can do myself for about $500. At least that is why I joined this site in hopes to get help with how I may do myself. If not; worst case I pay dealer $1,500 or less? Corian countertops are the other upgrade that may be $2,000, the dinette table with storage may be the other $1,000 or so? Everything else is basically same including chassis except for 4 differences that some may view as positive for Adventurer 29B that we view as negative.

1. 29B has induction and gas cooktop but no oven. My wife wants the oven and does not like losing 1 stove eye as the 29VE has 3; while 29B only has 2.
2. The Vista has separate 10 gallon gray waste tank for outdoor kitchen sink whereas 29B goes into existing 61 gallon gray. I assume more capacity is better
3. The Outdoor Kitchen sink is Stainless steel for Vista 29VE and some white material for 29B that we think will stain over time.
4. The Vista has a day shade screen on driver and passenger side with curtain that can be used for night privacy, the 29B only has night shade so when it is used is is 100% block. When driving during the day, that day shade in Vista will be very useful.

My intent ( no pun intented) was not to analyze Vista vs Adventurer because right now paying $20k more is not a question for us. We are finding the quality of Winnebago to be nice compared to Thor models we have compared and considering. I just want to get the Cummins Onan EC-30 installed. Down the road I expect we will upgrade countertops to granite maybe a mix with Corian for dinette table due to weight.

[bobmac]

dkoldman

I installed the EC-30 in a Class C several years ago. Spent more time figuring out which wires I would use and where I would make the connections. The job is relatively simple if you can read the Winnebago wiring diagrams and have some experience wiring. There are 16 connections required to the EC-30 wiring harness and only 5 or 6 require considerable thought as to which wire to use in the house or coach wiring. The unit is a tremendous asset if you have pets as it connects to the thermostat and will turn on the AC as required. Suggest you spend a lot of time planning and you should be able to do the wiring connections in a couple of hours or half a day. Dont expect any help from either Winnebago or Onan as they do not support individual owners. You should also download the Winnebago wiring diagram for a unit close to yours that comes with the unit to see how the connections were made in that unit. Have fun and good luck.

[Hikerdogs]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Not sure when you last looked, but I think I alluded to the differences earlier between the Vista VE and the Adventurer 29B. By far the full body paint is about 60% if not more of the $20k. We are not interested in paying $12k more for full body paint. My guess Winnebago may value that AGS at around $3k. I can do myself for about $500. At least that is why I joined this site in hopes to get help with how I may do myself. If not; worst case I pay dealer $1,500 or less? Corian countertops are the other upgrade that may be $2,000, the dinette table with storage may be the other $1,000 or so? Everything else is basically same including chassis except for 4 differences that some may view as positive for Adventurer 29B that we view as negative.

1. 29B has induction and gas cooktop but no oven. My wife wants the oven and does not like losing 1 stove eye as the 29VE has 3; while 29B only has 2.
2. The Vista has separate 10 gallon gray waste tank for outdoor kitchen sink whereas 29B goes into existing 61 gallon gray. I assume more capacity is better
3. The Outdoor Kitchen sink is Stainless steel for Vista 29VE and some white material for 29B that we think will stain over time.
4. The Vista has a day shade screen on driver and passenger side with curtain that can be used for night privacy, the 29B only has night shade so when it is used is is 100% block. When driving during the day, that day shade in Vista will be very useful.

My intent ( no pun intented) was not to analyze Vista vs Adventurer because right now paying $20k more is not a question for us. We are finding the quality of Winnebago to be nice compared to Thor models we have compared and considering. I just want to get the Cummins Onan EC-30 installed. Down the road I expect we will upgrade countertops to granite maybe a mix with Corian for dinette table due to weight.

Obviously prices have increased since we purchased our 2013 Adventurer. However the price for the factory installed optional EC 30 was $273.00 at that time. There are several online vendors selling the unit today for prices ranging from $335.00 to $400.00. I'm not sure if that's the complete system including the 25' wiring harness or just the cost of the panel.

Onan does have a printable EC 30 installation manual on their website:

https://www.cummins.com/sites/defaul...-operation.pdf

Secondly have you considered ordering a new motorhome rather than buying one off the dealers lot? When we ordered our motorhome in 2013 we were told we could order any option that was available on any other coach (even if it wasn't listed as an option on the model we were interested in) as long as it would physically fit in the coach we were ordering. We did order a 6 way power passenger's seat which was not listed as an option for the Adventurer that year.

If this is still possible you might be able to order from the factory the EC 30 system as well as the range and counter tops you're interested in. Our sales person had a form from Winnebago for requesting non standard items. He filled it out with the items we were requesting and sent it to the company. It took about 3 days to get a response as to which of the items we requested could be installed and the prices.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by bobmac

dkoldman

I installed the EC-30 in a Class C several years ago. Spent more time figuring out which wires I would use and where I would make the connections. The job is relatively simple if you can read the Winnebago wiring diagrams and have some experience wiring. There are 16 connections required to the EC-30 wiring harness and only 5 or 6 require considerable thought as to which wire to use in the house or coach wiring. The unit is a tremendous asset if you have pets as it connects to the thermostat and will turn on the AC as required. Suggest you spend a lot of time planning and you should be able to do the wiring connections in a couple of hours or half a day. Dont expect any help from either Winnebago or Onan as they do not support individual owners. You should also download the Winnebago wiring diagram for a unit close to yours that comes with the unit to see how the connections were made in that unit. Have fun and good luck.

Thanks this is very helpful. I got at least one Winnebago dealer to quote to install for $2,000 parts & labor.

I could do myself if I could get the 25' harness run to the generator from that one panel place in Winnebago, and if I could follow your advice to find out the wiring for the ignition and/or brakes. I should also say that I don't see an easy way to access behind the panels but there must be a way? I can buy all parts I need for $500 online.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Hikerdogs

Obviously prices have increased since we purchased our 2013 Adventurer. However the price for the factory installed optional EC 30 was $273.00 at that time. There are several online vendors selling the unit today for prices ranging from $335.00 to $400.00. I'm not sure if that's the complete system including the 25' wiring harness or just the cost of the panel.

Onan does have a printable EC 30 installation manual on their website:

https://www.cummins.com/sites/defaul...-operation.pdf

Secondly have you considered ordering a new motorhome rather than buying one off the dealers lot? When we ordered our motorhome in 2013 we were told we could order any option that was available on any other coach (even if it wasn't listed as an option on the model we were interested in) as long as it would physically fit in the coach we were ordering. We did order a 6 way power passenger's seat which was not listed as an option for the Adventurer that year.

If this is still possible you might be able to order from the factory the EC 30 system as well as the range and counter tops you're interested in. Our sales person had a form from Winnebago for requesting non standard items. He filled it out with the items we were requesting and sent it to the company. It took about 3 days to get a response as to which of the items we requested could be installed and the prices.

Thanks I have all the manual and document on EC-30. I have read it few times now, running that harness to the generator is no slam dunk and finding the ignition source or running wires to it and 2nd AC are my biggest challenges for DIY.

I have not asked Winnebago about ordering a unit. Yes I thought about it, but didn't think it was possible. Even if it were, my guess is that it would be expensive closer to MSRP. If money were no option, I would order the 2020 Adventurer 29B with the following options.
-Stainless steel sink in outdoor kitchen
-MCD Duo Day & Night Shades
-DVD Player with HDMI Switcher to all TVs
-Disconnect switch on engine & chassis batteries
-Dual AC's with electronic controls
-Pre-wired for solar
-Gray tank for outdoor kitchen
-Electrical Switch on Fridge for 110 source to come from standard generator/shore power or from a inverter

I know that would cost a fortune which I don't have.

So for me if I ever get a Winnebago, it will have to be a clean 2019 Vista 29VE with most of the above installed, and then I pay to add AGS, Corian Countertops. I figure that I am about $9k away from being able to get one. I have to wait until prices drop further, or wait until next year when more preowned 2019s become available, or go back to the Thor Hurricane 27B about $80k.

[Hikerdogs]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Thanks I have all the manual and document on EC-30. I have read it few times now, running that harness to the generator is no slam dunk and finding the ignition source or running wires to it and 2nd AC are my biggest challenges for DIY.

I have not asked Winnebago about ordering a unit. Yes I thought about it, but didn't think it was possible. Even if it were, my guess is that it would be expensive closer to MSRP. If money were no option, I would order the 2020 Adventurer 29B with the following options.
-Stainless steel sink in outdoor kitchen
-MCD Duo Day & Night Shades
-DVD Player with HDMI Switcher to all TVs
-Disconnect switch on engine & chassis batteries
-Dual AC's with electronic controls
-Pre-wired for solar
-Gray tank for outdoor kitchen
-Electrical Switch on Fridge for 110 source to come from standard generator/shore power or from a inverter

I know that would cost a fortune which I don't have.

So for me if I ever get a Winnebago, it will have to be a clean 2019 Vista 29VE with most of the above installed, and then I pay to add AGS, Corian Countertops. I figure that I am about $9k away from being able to get one. I have to wait until prices drop further, or wait until next year when more preowned 2019s become available, or go back to the Thor Hurricane 27B about $80k.

When we were going through the process of ordering our Adventurer the dealership passed along their net prices for the items we requested that weren't on the options list.

At that time there were several documents available online listing both the dealer and retail prices of all options available on Winnebago products. I don't know if any such documents exist today, but it might be worth a little time to do a search.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Hikerdogs

When we were going through the process of ordering our Adventurer the dealership passed along their net prices for the items we requested that weren't on the options list.

At that time there were several documents available online listing both the dealer and retail prices of all options available on Winnebago products. I don't know if any such documents exist today, but it might be worth a little time to do a search.

If I follow, it sounds like when you said order from factory, you are actually talking about ordering through a dealer? I missed that and maybe it should have been obvious to me. Regardless that is why I didn't think it could be done.

Ok, let me play out that scenario.

Today if wanted the 29VE my way, it would be eaxactly what they have on the lot with the following adds

1. AGS - Dealer has said they will do for $2000
2. Corian Countertops throughout coach w/recessed sink w/covers made of corian in kitchen. I have not mentioned this to dealer because I figure I can have it done later at a cost and quality a lot better. This is not a deal breaker if all else falls in place
3. Disconnect switches. - They feel like it is already on house and it may be... but I fear trickle drainage on engine / chassis. Not sure this is something for factory to do, I can do myself if necessary
4. Have option to switch fridge to inverter source of 110 power versus shore/gen - I am sure this is not an option at factory.

So given the above and the fact I have seen several on lots throughout country with all of the above, I think if price were right I could get one and if dealer includes the AGS install I should be good. At current most are all priced about the same at $91k, I will go back to looking at the new Thors who IMO come with everything but are crappily put together or maintained at dealers. Durim interim I will wait to see what happens this fall or winter on Winnebago whose pricing I simply don't trust. I glad you asked why? LOL

When I first started looking we went to Winnebago first. Saw the Intent 29L and fell in love with it. I was too dumb at that time to know anything about the ACs, but at $89k and only 1 AC with option to add a 2nd; it gave me reason to pause. Price drove my holdout. Today those same 2019 Intent 29L are running for $76k and they can't give them away. If the 2019 Vista 29VE does the same thing I will pick one up then, if not; I still have my tent if I don't get a Windsport.

[Hikerdogs]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

If I follow, it sounds like when you said order from factory, you are actually talking about ordering through a dealer? I missed that and maybe it should have been obvious to me. Regardless that is why I didn't think it could be done.

Ok, let me play out that scenario.

Today if wanted the 29VE my way, it would be eaxactly what they have on the lot with the following adds

1. AGS - Dealer has said they will do for $2000
2. Corian Countertops throughout coach w/recessed sink w/covers made of corian in kitchen. I have not mentioned this to dealer because I figure I can have it done later at a cost and quality a lot better. This is not a deal breaker if all else falls in place
3. Disconnect switches. - They feel like it is already on house and it may be... but I fear trickle drainage on engine / chassis. Not sure this is something for factory to do, I can do myself if necessary
4. Have option to switch fridge to inverter source of 110 power versus shore/gen - I am sure this is not an option at factory.

So given the above and the fact I have seen several on lots throughout country with all of the above, I think if price were right I could get one and if dealer includes the AGS install I should be good. At current most are all priced about the same at $91k, I will go back to looking at the new Thors who IMO come with everything but are crappily put together or maintained at dealers. Durim interim I will wait to see what happens this fall or winter on Winnebago whose pricing I simply don't trust. I glad you asked why? LOL

When I first started looking we went to Winnebago first. Saw the Intent 29L and fell in love with it. I was too dumb at that time to know anything about the ACs, but at $89k and only 1 AC with option to add a 2nd; it gave me reason to pause. Price drove my holdout. Today those same 2019 Intent 29L are running for $76k and they can't give them away. If the 2019 Vista 29VE does the same thing I will pick one up then, if not; I still have my tent if I don't get a Windsport.

You are correct in that we did order our motorhomes from the factory through a dealer. Our current one was ordered through PleasureLand RV in Ramsey Minnesota.

I'm sure all the options you list are available from the factory on some models Winnebago makes.

1. AGS - Dealer has said they will do for $2000

This has been available for many years on the Adventurer and other models. As I mentioned in a previous post it was a $273.00 option in our 2013 Adventurer.

2. Corian Countertops throughout coach w/recessed sink w/covers made of corian in kitchen.

Standard feature on the Adventurer.

3. Disconnect switches. - They feel like it is already on house and it may be... but I fear trickle drainage on engine / chassis.

Again standard feature on the Adventurer and other models. There are 2 switches. One for the chassis battery and s second for the house batteries. The chassis batteries are completely disconnected, however the house battery disconnect still allows the stairs to operate. If the stairs are stored and the house batteries disconnected they will still extend when the door is opened. This is a safety feature so the passengers won't fall on the ground when they attempt to exit.

4. Have option to switch fridge to inverter source of 110 power versus shore/gen - I am sure this is not an option at factory.

Again another standard feature on the larger Adventurers. The residential refrigerator can be run from the batteries through the inverter. This option includes a 3rd deep cell battery and a larger inverter.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Hikerdogs

You are correct in that we did order our motorhomes from the factory through a dealer. Our current one was ordered through PleasureLand RV in Ramsey Minnesota.

I'm sure all the options you list are available from the factory on some models Winnebago makes.

1. AGS - Dealer has said they will do for $2000

This has been available for many years on the Adventurer and other models. As I mentioned in a previous post it was a $273.00 option in our 2013 Adventurer.

2. Corian Countertops throughout coach w/recessed sink w/covers made of corian in kitchen.

1. AGS - Dealer has said they will do for $2000

This has been available for many years on the Adventurer and other models. As I mentioned in a previous post it was a $273.00 option in our 2013 Adventurer.

2. Corian Countertops throughout coach w/recessed sink w/covers made of corian in kitchen.

Standard feature on the Adventurer.

4. Have option to switch fridge to inverter source of 110 power versus shore/gen - I am sure this is not an option at factory.

Again another standard feature on the larger Adventurers. The residential refrigerator can be run from the batteries through the inverter. This option includes a 3rd deep cell battery and a larger inverter.


Standard feature on the Adventurer.

3. Disconnect switches. - They feel like it is already on house and it may be... but I fear trickle drainage on engine / chassis.

Again standard feature on the Adventurer and other models. There are 2 switches. One for the chassis battery and s second for the house batteries. The chassis batteries are completely disconnected, however the house battery disconnect still allows the stairs to operate. If the stairs are stored and the house batteries disconnected they will still extend when the door is opened. This is a safety feature so the passengers won't fall on the ground when they attempt to exit.

4. Have option to switch fridge to inverter source of 110 power versus shore/gen - I am sure this is not an option at factory.

Again another standard feature on the larger Adventurers. The residential refrigerator can be run from the batteries through the inverter. This option includes a 3rd deep cell battery and a larger inverter.

This is helpful. I will add Engine cutoff to my list to see how dealer may do? I know I could do myself for about $30. They will say the Chassis cutoff is already there. I will assume dealer wants $200.

On the others we may have come full circle on the Adventurer 29B. Although few items I seek, may come standard; it is not an option for me to spend $20k more to get them.

For AGS - I am sure in my case Dealer may have jacked cost up because in their mind the RV at $91k is already very low. I figured it should be about $1,000, but no worries let's stick with the quoted $2,000. However, yesterday, dealer is saying they will include the AGS for $91k. So they are either dropping price by $2k, or throwing it in at $0 ( I bet it is about half & half)

I have not received a Corian quote but did talk with one countertop company that said they could put granite to replace all of the existing countertops/table for $1,500 - $2,000. I think the granite table may be too heavy so I need to find out how much heavier than corian. Maybe Granite for everything but the table which could be corian? Regardless it is about $2k upgrade. This would not be a urgent thing, the existing thermoform or whatever it is can get us by, but I know it is cheap; and I don't make moves without a plan to replace as warranty will eventually expire. I might even check to see how much to buy the corian as replacement parts under warranty. See you are making me think harder

Lastly the Residential Fridge at one point had my full attention and what took me to Thor and the ACE 29.3 and away from Winnebago. For as much as I like the residential fridge and would accept in a heartbeat, I do like having the propane option. We will never full time in our RV. The switch I want is only for while driving. I am surprised it is not some kind of law that requires it while driving. i.e if I designed the systems, unless you had true Residential Fridge, the propane units should allow usage of a 1000 watt inverter if so equipped while driving. When engine stopped, it switches back to propane or shore power if available. I have never seen what I seek here.

If weather is nice I may go back and look at Adventurer to see a few things I have learned from you, but for right now it is $91k versus $112k and the $91k hasn't even won Not sure if I told you we had purchased a Thor 27B about 3 weeks ago with partial paint and firefly controller for $80k, but it had punch list of 71 line items nad dealer could not repair them all. By comparison the Winnebago we are looking at only has 3 items all are fixables. The countertops are the biggest though.

[Hikerdogs]

In this case personally I would opt for Corian countertops as opposed to Granite. Corian is a poured molded plastic that is polished to the selected sheen. When touring the Winnebago factory a couple years ago we got to watch them pour and polish the countertops. They can be polished to any sheen you select, from a low sheen to a mirror finish. The most common is a lower sheen as it doesn't as readily show scratches.

Corian is a good choice if you live in cold weather country. It does expand and contract slightly rather than crack. The only downside I am aware of is that since it is a plastic it can be damaged by placing hot baking pans or kettles directly on the surface. We've had Corian in both our Adventurers and have been completely satisfied with it's quality and performance.

As for the weight Corian weighs 2.2 lbs. per square foot per 1/4" of thickness. I believe our countertops are 3/4" thick so they would weigh 6.6 lbs. per square foot.

Granite countertops are generally 3/4" to 2" thick depending on the quality of the material. Since they are essentially rock they do weigh considerably more than the Corian. The typical weight of 1 square foot of granite 3/4" thick is 13 lbs., 1 1/4" thickness weighs 18-20 lbs. per square foot, and 2" thick weighs about 30 lbs. per square foot.

I am not aware of any motorhome manufacturer that uses Granite on gas powered motorhomes unless they also have air suspension. The weight of the Granite along with the less cushioned ride of the spring suspension could spell disaster as far as cracking is concerned.

Also on a lighter capacity chassis the weight could be a concern since even at the thinnest size Granite is more than double the weight of Corian per square foot. I would think Granite would considerably decrease the carrying capacity you would want for food, clothing and other essentials.

[bobmac]

dkoldman

I used the 18 inch wiring harness and had no issues. You will have to extend the leads for most connections. I installed the EC-30 in the middle of the class C. Most connections were in the wiring harnesses that were in the back of the cabinets so did not require lengthy extensions. You do not need the longer harness in my experience. Good luck,