Considering a V29 Purchase

[V29]

I've finally learned the First Rule, join a forum and ask questions before a purchase!

So here it goes. This will be my second and possibly last RV - tend to keep stuff until EOL. I'm looking at ordering a Vista 29 this summer - it would be a 2025 model then. I just looked at it at the Florida Fairgrounds RV show in Tampa. I wanted around 25 feet, but storage and features are too limiting with RVs that size for my desires. So I will get a V29 unless some say watch out for .... The only item (so far) I have serious reservations about is the refrigerator! And it is a big one. Winnebago is implementing California and other state requirements across the board on their new designs - GOING 100% electric when/where ever possible.

The refrigerator is now 120Vac with 12Vdc via an inverter. The consumption is 8 amps (DC) when the compressor is running. Having only 2 small batteries will not even give 24 hours of operation. That means that Winnebago is assuming one will be plugged into power 100% of the time and the batteries are only for travel time in between plug ins. That would be a red line for me as I go off-grid 80% of the time and I won't or can't (not allowed in some locations) run a generator when no power is available.

I was told by a "salesman" at the show that he had one in his driveway and ran it on batteries for over three days without plugging in. I know that is physically impossible. Frankly, It has to be a lie to make a sale. I have extensive knowledge in this area and the 2 batteries Winnebago provide have apx 55 AH of usable power (200AH total) before a recharge is required. Refrigerators of this type consume apx 125-150AH in a 24 hour period. This is mostly a direct result of the insulation R value. The compressor only needs apx 25AH if the R value is R14 or higher, but typically the R value is 4 to 5. R value range is 2.2 to 2.7 per inch of thickness.

So the question I have is - Does anyone here have first hand real experience with this situation and how long will the refrigerator run on JUST the batteries alone without being plugged in?

Also, if there is anything I should know, I am all ears. ' looking forward to being a productive member of this group.
TIA

For those that do not have this newer model, propane refrigeration is NOT Available or an Option from Winnebago any more on new models - V29 and all that follow across the fleet!

[twinboat]

Not sure how your only getting 55 AH from 200 AH of capacity, it's more like 150 AH only using 75%.

The 50% thing is for the longest life but using 75% is not detrimental.

If your always off grid, lithium batteries and solar will get you thru many days except in the shade. As long as you have a charging system while driving, your batteries should not discharge while on the road.

Another option is to find a model with a absorbsion fridge.

[yeloduster]

I think you have over estimated the typical power usage. The refrigerator compressor does not run all the time. It cycles off and on as required to keep the freezer/refrigerator at the temperature setting. With this in mind I think your numbers are too high.

The salesman may be not too far off for a refrigerator that is sitting in an unoccupied RV.

If the RV is occupied, the refrigerator door is opened several times a day and it is hot out the power consumption will get closer to your estimate.

I camp off the grid >95% of the time. I would not want an RV with an electric refrigerator. Were I you I would expand my purchasing criteria to include lightly used but still viable used units that had absorption refrigerators.

As twinboat said, you could go solar and lithium!

[V29]

I'll be brief. I am an OEM in a related industry. I do know the facts. Thanks for all the "advice" on how to do things, but I do know what i want and how to do it properly. I avoid this topic like the plague because there is so much opinion on false ideas (like the salesman i talked to - in his case a 100% lie ) that are not factually correct. I was just looking for someone that actually has one to confirm the lie. That simple.

I stand by 100% what I mentioned in my first post. Those are 100% verifiable facts, not my opinion. Also, I did not ask for alternative options. When confirmed, I will have to decide if this is manageable by one of my standard upgrades - see picture.

twinboat - (200 * 0.8 *0.35) yields real world useful battery bank power. Listed/Rated power * 0.8 yields actual real power vs lab test power in a controlled environment of 68 degrees F. 1/3 is the useable range between charges (50% to 85%). Going down to 25% battery life routinely is DETRIMENTAL to battery life exponentially. Believe it or not, your choice, but that is the fact.

Yellowduster - my consumption numbers are 100% correct from over half a century of analysis in manufacturing systems doing this. Yours are not.

Also, just so you know, I have run my Air Conditioners off my Battery Bank for 4 decades. I do know the numbers. So many tell me that is impossible. I just smile (internally) while they have no plug in.

[azpete]

thanks for the information. i wont try to answer your question, but i believe, given the push toward green, all electric will be the future of all rv’s. whether we like it or not doesnt matter. we better figure it out soon.
starting with the power distribution infrastructure. most campgrounds are way behind the curve on updating wiring and higher amperage supply to the post.

[yeloduster]

It seems like you already have the answers.

[V29]

The rest of the story.

Someone else provided the clue to the salesman that will say anything to make a sale true or not. I believe that the RV that supposedly ran 3 days on batteries did not have the standard 200Ah house battery bank. They probably had the double Lithium that has 640 Ah which in fact will last up to 4 days.

But I have no desire to use Lithium, so the search continues.....

[AFChap]

How well would a 12v compressor refrigerator work in that situation? I am seeing them in some rigs now.

[SilverPlum]

Originally Posted by yeloduster

It seems like you already have the answers.

This.

[O-Joe]

V29
I have a 2022 Adventurer 29b.
With a Victron monitoring system and a 12V compressor fridge. So not exactly what you are looking at. But a data point.

I can say with the fridge running and no one using the rig in 70F sunny desert weather my daily power consumption for all 12V and 120V (my inverter is always on) is approximately 2.1 kWh. This includes my internet and miscellaneous connected devices I leave on.

I could run a 24h test with the fridge and only the bare essentials enabled. But, for now, this gives you one not-to-exceed value for a start.

Your battery calc would yield a daily available battery power of 660 wh or 0.66 kWh.

I’ll include a screen shot of the monitor
Best,
O-Joe

[Seabee Chief]

Originally Posted by V29

I've finally learned the First Rule, join a forum and ask questions before a purchase!

So here it goes. This will be my second and possibly last RV - tend to keep stuff until EOL. I'm looking at ordering a Vista 29 this summer - it would be a 2025 model then. I just looked at it at the Florida Fairgrounds RV show in Tampa. I wanted around 25 feet, but storage and features are too limiting with RVs that size for my desires. So I will get a V29 unless some say watch out for .... The only item (so far) I have serious reservations about is the refrigerator! And it is a big one. Winnebago is implementing California and other state requirements across the board on their new designs - GOING 100% electric when/where ever possible.

The refrigerator is now 120Vac with 12Vdc via an inverter. The consumption is 8 amps (DC) when the compressor is running. Having only 2 small batteries will not even give 24 hours of operation. That means that Winnebago is assuming one will be plugged into power 100% of the time and the batteries are only for travel time in between plug ins. That would be a red line for me as I go off-grid 80% of the time and I won't or can't (not allowed in some locations) run a generator when no power is available.

I was told by a "salesman" at the show that he had one in his driveway and ran it on batteries for over three days without plugging in. I know that is physically impossible. Frankly, It has to be a lie to make a sale. I have extensive knowledge in this area and the 2 batteries Winnebago provide have apx 55 AH of usable power (200AH total) before a recharge is required. Refrigerators of this type consume apx 125-150AH in a 24 hour period. This is mostly a direct result of the insulation R value. The compressor only needs apx 25AH if the R value is R14 or higher, but typically the R value is 4 to 5. R value range is 2.2 to 2.7 per inch of thickness.

So the question I have is - Does anyone here have first hand real experience with this situation and how long will the refrigerator run on JUST the batteries alone without being plugged in?

Also, if there is anything I should know, I am all ears. ' looking forward to being a productive member of this group.
TIA

For those that do not have this newer model, propane refrigeration is NOT Available or an Option from Winnebago any more on new models - V29 and all that follow across the fleet!

We have a 2022 Vista 29V. We never boondoock, so I don't know how long the 12vdc fridge will operate before depleting the batteries. I also don't know how much longer operation you can expect with a solar/lithium setup. I know that it is expensive, but if you boondock enough you may be able to justify the money. Even in storage we have 120vac all the time, so it keeps the fridge running and the batteries charged.

We sold a 2015 Thor Miramar (35'), and I can tell you that the fit and finish on the Thor was much, much better than the '22 Vista 29V. Wallpaper coming unglued is one annoying issue. The bin doors and latches are flimsy and does not inspire confidence. I have read on other forums that their bins just open at random going down the highway. I have not personally experienced that issue. If I had it to do over, I would have kept the Miramar and put some money into "VROOM" slides. In five years, we replaced 5 slide motors and one complete slide system. That was the biggest issue and it simply made me act irrationally and I sold it. I regret that transaction. I would suggest you look at some pre-covid Vistas and see what is out there. Every indigestion causing ussue today is blamed on covid. Much of it is justified. I hope this helped.

Chief

[V29]

Chief, Thanks for the reply. Your input is exactly why I am going in circles on the thought of spending an additional $100K plus my 2017 29' FR to get an "updated" RV is getting harder to justify the more I think about it. I had to fix over 70 warranty items myself - I sued and won over FR!! but I wish IU did not have to. This is my first RV and I do not know how the industry stays in business. The problems do not appear to be manufacturers specific, just luck of the draw across ALL RVs. By luck, I mean how many problems you will have - from a dozen to a gross like me.

Not having propane refrigeration may be a deal breaker. I'll keep thinking, but probably will just keep my 2017 that is completely OK - Now. Fair winds, following seas, ...

[LiveNLearn]

The 29NPF model has the same floorplan. Differences are no ladder (you get a wraparound awning instead) , 3 solar panels (instead of 1) and 2 lithium batteries. Actually I think you can get the upgraded batteries and solar on the 29V also.