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Old 06-28-2020, 12:02 PM   #1
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Dead 12 Volt circuit on '04 Journey

I'm finally getting around to tracing a dead 12 volt circuit labeled Monitor/TV in our '04 Winnebago Journey DP that I noticed on our parked coach a month after we got back from 3 months in Tucson. 138 page wiring diagram (!) lists this as a "clean circuit." Anyone know what that means.
The 15 amp breaker is good, but 12 gauge, then later 14 gauge wire that goes to monitor panel (water pump, house battery voltage display, water heater igniter, ceiling light, EMS load shedder) and then some TV stuff (ext ent ctr, sat, spkr selector, etc) has no voltage. The circuit is labeled JA, and I've located JA3, 5, 6, 8 and 9 so far. I put in a temporary fused jumper from the breaker and connected to a T-tap at JA9 (illumination for Hot Water Switch) hoping it would energize the entire circuit, and that brought the House voltage display(JA8), water heater igniter (JA9) to life, but water pump, ceiling light , EMS, outside stereo, and everything else is still dead.
Circuit breakers are under the fridge, and that's where the wire starts on it's mysterious journey, so it looks like I need to pull my residential fridge to check things under there which is going to be a PITA. One more question, Do the numbers on the JA circuit indicate where components are with lower numbers closer to the breaker? The wire coming off the breaker is labeled
JA 1 1, and I don't know if that is supposed to be a one or an eleven with a space between the digits. JA3 is at the EMS board for the display I believe, and there's no voltage there. Suggestions? Thanks in advance!
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Old 06-28-2020, 04:05 PM   #2
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corprimo-

I took the time to trace the entire "JA" circuit through the diagrams, starting at the circuit breaker panel under the refrigerator. The results are below.

Now, which of these services are dead? Or, if easier, which of these services are working?

Code:


BODY, 12 VOLT WIRING DIAGRAM (http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/...ire_146053.pdf)

MONITOR POWER LAMP SWITCH                             SHEET 2          ZONE D-16
2-PIN CONNECTOR     TO EXT ENT CTR                    SHEET 2          ZONE A-25
     WALLPLATE - TV                                   SHEET 4          ZONE B-6
     12-PIN CONNECTOR TO RADIO WIRING                 SHEET 4          ZONE A-8
8-PIN CONNECTOR TO LOAD SHEDDER MONITOR PANEL         SHEET 2          ZONE A-27
     SEE AC/HEAT/EMS WIRING DIAGRAM
WATER PUMP SWITCH                                     SHEET 2          ZONE A-28
WATER HEATER SWITCH                                   SHEET 2          ZONE A-29
15-PIN CONNECTOR TO MONITOR PANEL                     SHEET 2          ZONE A-34
     SEE HOLDING TANK MONITOR PANEL
12-PIN CONNECTOR TO WIRE ASM - ROOF                   SHEET 2          ZONE D-38
     DIGITAL SATELLITE ELEVATION SENSOR               SHEET 3          ZONE D-14
     VIDEO SWITCH                                     SHEET 3          ZONE D-8
     SPEAKER SELECTOR SWITCH                          SHEET 3          ZONE D-7
     IN-MOTION SATELLITE POWER SWITCH                 SHEET 3          ZONE D-5
     3-PIN CONNECTOR TO WIRE ASM - SATELLITE, AUTO    SHEET 3          ZONE D-4
     

AC/HEAT/EMS WIRING DIAGRAM (http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/...ire_138913.pdf)

NOT CONNECTED                                         SHEET 1, 2     ZONE B-2


HOLDING TANK MONITOR PANEL (http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/...ire_133004.pdf)

BATTERY VOLTAGE DISPLAY SELECTOR SWITCH (SW 4)        SHEET 6, 7     ZONE B-5
WATER HEATER ON-OFF SWITCH (SW 3)                     SHEET 6, 7     ZONE C-5
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Old 06-28-2020, 04:35 PM   #3
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thanks!

Thanks Mark,

I've checked just about all of those, including the 8, 12 and 15 pin connectors, and they're all dead. I think the holding tank monitor panel is on a different circuit, because it works. I was checking those connectors using the ground at the connector, and should check them again with a different ground that I know is good. I've got juice coming out of the breaker and going into the 12 gauge wire which is located under the fridge, but I'm not sure where it goes from there. My guess is the Load Shedder is probably one of the first things in the circuit, but since the 12 volt only powers the display, I could be wrong. Wiring diagram just lists everything by JA, and does not include the numbers. It's possible that I dinged a wire when I installed that fridge - I had to take about 7 inches out of the base cabinet to have enough height. Once I pull the fridge, I may have an idea of which direction the wire goes. It powers things at the bed, at the Monitor Panel, the front TV area, and the outside stereo.
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Old 06-28-2020, 05:33 PM   #4
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corprimo-

Per the post I made above, "JA" feeds two circuits on the monitor panel, the battery voltage switch and the water pump switch- but not the tank monitor panel. "JA" appears on pin 1 of the 15-pin connector that feeds the monitor panel. By what you've said, you should not find 12V on that pin.

Potential causes, some of which you have checked:

1) "JA" wire is damaged or loose at the breaker
2) "JA" wire damaged further downstream
3) Circuit breaker has failed
4) Upper busbar in the rear of the circuit breaker panel is dead. A bunch of other stuff would be dead if the busbar was dead.
5) Bad ground(s) "JP"

By the way, the diagram says the converter feeds that busbar (diagram, sheet 2 zone A-4), through an isolated stud under the refrigerator. Is the converter powered up and working?

I await the results of your refrigerator removal.
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Old 06-28-2020, 05:34 PM   #5
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1.5 volts?

With a good ground wire, I checked voltage on the JA 3 wire at the 8 pin connector to the EMS, and got 1.5 volts. No idea where that is coming from.
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Old 06-29-2020, 06:22 PM   #6
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Fridge is out and JA wire just disappears into the floor with no connections, Click image for larger version

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ID:	291458maybe heading across to monitor panel. I have a video scope that might help me follow it. Need to start IDing wires all over the place and checking for juice. Would a Clamp Meter work for this? Called Winnebago and their tech was no help. He wished me luck!
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Old 06-30-2020, 03:49 AM   #7
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corprimo-

Sorry to sound like a busted record, but have you checked for:

1) 12V at the passthrough stud under the refrigerator that sends the converter output to the upper busbar?
2) 12V at the upper busbar?
3) 12V at the "JA" circuit breaker output? (for that matter, 12V at each of the upper busbar circuit breaker outputs)
4) Just for grins, 12V at the lower busbar?

I'd be interested in those results.

If you don't already have one, you may want to pick up a decent wire tracer, one with a sender and receiver unit. It compliments the camera/borescope/endoscope for tracing wires.

By the way, did this apparent "JA" failure happen immediately after some other change? Did it work after your reefer swap?
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Old 07-01-2020, 01:04 AM   #8
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All buses and breakers have power. Bought a tracer, turned off coach batteries, put a signal into the disconnected wire and the beeping stopped 2 inches into the wire. It works fine on a 10 foot piece of loose wire. Iím going bald from all the head scratching. Circuit goes to outside entertainment center JA 2, EMS JA3, Outside water pump switch JA 4, Monitor Panel JA 5,6,8,9, and up into bedroom ceiling JA. Next up, reconnect at circuit breaker and double check all those for voltage, then look at running a new wire to JA 4 location, which appears to be the only one with 12 gauge wire, so Iím thinking itís the first destination.
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Old 07-01-2020, 03:38 AM   #9
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corprimo-

Hmm... I wonder if "JA" is broken 2 inches from the breaker?

You could test this by getting a 50-foot length of 12-to-16 AWG wire and crimping spade connectors on each end (call female end "1" and male end "2"). Connect "1" to the breaker. Remove "JA" from any downstream device (say, one of the three connections on the monitor panel). Plug "2" into "JA" at that point. All downstream devices should now be live. Repeat, moving upstream.

Just an idea.

I have a feeling you are not far from finding the problem cause.
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Old 07-01-2020, 05:40 PM   #10
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Progress?

So I connected the existing JA 12 gauge wire to the breaker and found that the outside stereo does work, and, more importantly, I have power at the outdoor water pump switch, JA 4. So the wire from Breaker to far side of coach is good. Wiring diagram doesn't identify this as a switch, that I can tell. 8 pins, with 5 being used. Back in the Monitor Panel, there is a 15 pin plug, and with that disconnected, where JA comes in via a 14 gauge wire, I'm getting 1.5 volts. So yes, I've been thinking about a bypass wire as well, and perhaps temporarily cut that JA wire before it gets to the 15 pin plug. The outside water pump switch has two 12 gauge wires that also go to that 15 pin plug, AF and AG, only one of which is energized at a time, depending on position of that outdoor switch. They go from the 15 plug connection to the indoor water pump switch. I ordered some wire from Amazon so that I can run a new wire if needed. I'm guessing there's either something buried in those wiring looms that's screwed up, or it's something in the Monitor Panel itself. I'll keep plugging along. I'm retired, and no place to go, so can just keep plugging away at it. If I do have to have a mobile tech come over, I'll have lots of info for him or her!
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