GAWR

[kenbt]

Reading earlier posts on the Freightliner's Owners Club Forum about the increased weight rating for 2006 vs
2005 models of the IFS Winnebago Chassis. Most of the post that I
read referred to front axel ratings of 12000 moving up to 14000 for
2006 model. I have a 2005 Winnebago Vectra 36' IFS chassis and the
GAWR (gross axle weiht rating)is the front axle of 10,410 lbs and
rear axle of 19,000 lbs which is listed by Winnebago. Other
information I came across from Freighliner lists my front axle as ZF
Independent 12,000lb. I don't believe the front or rear axles of
the 36' IFS chassis is any different than the 40'model in 2005. I
believe that makes the difference in the GAWR rating is what tires
each unit came with. Because Winnebago or Freighliner decided to
install Michelin Radial 255/80R 22.5 XRV (single load range 5205 lbs
and dual load range of 4805 lbs)is why Winnebago gave the GAWR of
front axle as 10, 410 lbs and the rear at 19,000 lbs. I am sure the
40' Vectra come with a higher rated tire because of the overall
weight due to lenght difference. Again, I believe the design and
size of the axles of both 36' and 40' rigs are the same. There may
be a frame size difference but that would be it. When I went thru
the Country Coach factory (they were one of the first out there with
IFS)a fews years ago I not only saw but was told that the only
difference in models and lenghts is frame sizing, the axles where
the same.

[kenbt]

Reading earlier posts on the Freightliner's Owners Club Forum about the increased weight rating for 2006 vs
2005 models of the IFS Winnebago Chassis. Most of the post that I
read referred to front axel ratings of 12000 moving up to 14000 for
2006 model. I have a 2005 Winnebago Vectra 36' IFS chassis and the
GAWR (gross axle weiht rating)is the front axle of 10,410 lbs and
rear axle of 19,000 lbs which is listed by Winnebago. Other
information I came across from Freighliner lists my front axle as ZF
Independent 12,000lb. I don't believe the front or rear axles of
the 36' IFS chassis is any different than the 40'model in 2005. I
believe that makes the difference in the GAWR rating is what tires
each unit came with. Because Winnebago or Freighliner decided to
install Michelin Radial 255/80R 22.5 XRV (single load range 5205 lbs
and dual load range of 4805 lbs)is why Winnebago gave the GAWR of
front axle as 10, 410 lbs and the rear at 19,000 lbs. I am sure the
40' Vectra come with a higher rated tire because of the overall
weight due to lenght difference. Again, I believe the design and
size of the axles of both 36' and 40' rigs are the same. There may
be a frame size difference but that would be it. When I went thru
the Country Coach factory (they were one of the first out there with
IFS)a fews years ago I not only saw but was told that the only
difference in models and lenghts is frame sizing, the axles where
the same.

[CalTex]

Kenbt, by any chance have you weighted your coach (front and rear/and side)? I have the '05 Vectra 36 but haven't been able to get it weighted yet. I would be interested in the weights if you have them.

[kenbt]

Yes I weight my coach loaded for a trip, full tank of gas, 1/2 tank of fresh water (50 gallons of water), full tank of propane, blk and gry tanks empty. The front axle was at 10,400 lbs and the rear was at 19,000 lbs. It was right at its max weight recommended.

[rebelsbeach]

My Vectra has XZA3's on it,all the way around.

[BigTrace]

I believe you are correct as the manufacturer will not rate your coach beyond the ratings of the tires that accompany them. It sounds like your net carrying capacity at this point is 0!!. That would be a big problem. If you look at the specifications, it also depends on what model of 36 you own (either the RD or GD). Those with the GD model are really in trouble as the rear axle weight rating is only 17,500!!. I am sure though that it is a matter of tires in this case and not axles. I would contact Winnie tech support AND Freightliner tech support and find out for sure but my bet is that was the case. Why freightliner would allow this to happen is also strange as I think they are responsible to provide the tires. You may be able to talk them into new tires to solve your problem (hopefully it is that easy).

[CalTex]

Kenbt, thanks for the reply, doesn't sound like I have much leeway on capacity.

[ppeter313]

Kenbt and CalTex-
It would be interesting to know what Winnebago lists as the ccc (cargo carrying capacity) on their weight slip (posted in the bedroom closet, or in black bag).

Paul

[BigTrace]

I was still curious about this so I looked up your specs on my RV Consumer.org CD and it claims your average curb weight should be around 27400 (including all the liquids that you have mentioned). The CD claims "Average Curb Weight" with an "average amount of dealer options". Did you modify or add anything that may account for the 1900lbs? I don't doubt that you weighed your MH correctly, nor have I ever found a HUGE discrepency in this CD's information, but just on the off chance that your MH WAS weighed incorrectly, perhaps a second weighing at a different weigh station is in order. The more I thought about this issue, the more I have to think that Winnie "would not" put out a product knowing that you could not carry anything in it. It just doesn't make sense.

[The Shadow]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BigTrace:
I was still curious about this so I looked up your specs on my RV Consumer.org CD and it claims your average curb weight should be around 27400 (including all the liquids that you have mentioned). The CD claims "Average Curb Weight" with an "average amount of dealer options". Did you modify or add anything that may account for the 1900lbs? I don't doubt that you weighed your MH correctly, nor have I ever found a HUGE discrepency in this CD's information, but just on the off chance that your MH WAS weighed incorrectly, perhaps a second weighing at a different weigh station is in order. The more I thought about this issue, the more I have to think that Winnie "would not" put out a product knowing that you could not carry anything in it. It just doesn't make sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

While I'm inclined to agree with you, all one has to do is walk through a dealer's lot and look at the stickers inside that provide CCC. We were at a CW getting a Maxxair 800 installed and decided to have a look at the new View. We were really taken with it and believe it is a great unit for touring without a toad. BUT, when we looked at the label, CCC was 300 lbs and when you multiply 154 x 3 to get the occupant weight used for determining CCC, you find that for the three of us it is 200 lbs. Then, put a bike rack and 3 bikes on the back and we are down to under 100 lbs. So, would they or wouldn't they?

If one moves up in size one can find similar situations. A couple of years ago we saw 10 HR Vacationers for sale at our dealer (who handles Winnie and HR) and got enthused about one of the m that had 1.5 baths, fireplace etc. Looked at the sticker - wow just over 400 lbs CCC. Needless to say these things were priced very well and the 10 were gone in no time.

Our Journey had good CCC but it was only two slides. I think Winnie found a problem with the 17,500 lb rear end not being adequate for the 3 slide models and thus went to the 19,000 rear end as of April 1/05. This was not a tire problem as the tires could lift over 20,000 lbs (4 x 5205).

I think there may be weight problems with many other manufacturers that are no different. When we buy, one of the first things we look at is the CCC (and of course, that doesn't tell us anything about the distribution of the CCC which can create further problems).

[kenbt]

Paul:
Ok here is the weights listed on my coach (2005 Vectra 36 RD)from Winnebago.

GAWR Front 10,410 (gross axle weight)
Rear 19,400
GVWR 29,410 (groos veh weight rating)
UVW 26,501 (unloaded vehicle weight)
SCWR 616 (sleeping capacity)
CCC 1,281 (cargo carring capacity)
GCWR 39,410 (gross combination weight)
Factory Opt. 486

[rebelsbeach]

What a difference apparently a year (and four feet and some higher load range tires) makes...

2006 Vectra 40KD

Gross Axle front 14320
Gross Axle rear 20000

GVWR 34320

UVW 28519

SCWR 462 (154x3)

CCC 4335

GCWR 44320

Factory installed Options 963

[ppeter313]

Kenbt,

I was also hoping that the scales were off, but looking at your ccc I have to say it's pretty easy to throw 1300# of stuff onboard without blinking an eye.

Paul

[BigTrace]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kenbt:
Paul:
Ok here is the weights listed on my coach (2005 Vectra 36 RD)from Winnebago.

GAWR Front 10,410 (gross axle weight)
Rear 19,400
GVWR 29,410 (groos veh weight rating)
UVW 26,501 (unloaded vehicle weight)
SCWR 616 (sleeping capacity)
CCC 1,281 (cargo carring capacity)
GCWR 39,410 (gross combination weight)
Factory Opt. 486 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So Kenbt;

Apparently your saying in comparison to what I found in the RV Consumer.Org CD is approximately correct. Your UVW + Options + people = 27,600 which is roughly what the CD said which was 27,400. Here is the definition of UVW:

UVW: Unloaded Vehicle Weight (1996 RVIA Definition)
The WEIGHT of a vehicle as built at the factory with full fuel, engine(generator) oil and coolants. It does not include cargo, fresh water, LP gas, occupants, or dealer installed accessories.

With that definition, UVW = 26501, 1/2 Water would be around 415 (8.3 x 50) pounds, LPG full would be (31 x 4.5 x 0.8) 112 pounds, occupants = 4 x 154 = 616, and finally options are 486 pounds. By these definitions, your Cargo carrying capacity should be 29,410 - 27,976 or 1,280 which is CCC (as it is written). Wait a minute though, after that math lesson , CCC is supposed to include FULL WATER (including that which is in the water heater), not half there by increasing (and therefore deleting another 59 gallon x 8.3 = 490 pounds!!) which would reduce the actual CCC to under 800 pounds. I would at this point look at Winnebago and Freightliner to provide a new sticker and upgrade your tires to allow for the increased capacity (assuming your front axel can handle 12000 lbs. You obviously paid for a rating that isn't correct even by RVIA standards. I would also re-weigh your MH starting with an overall weight with nothing in it including draining the water (you can top off the LP to get it to full and account for the 112 pounds). Fill up the fuel tank and drain ALL holding tanks. If the weight comes out to the UVW + LP + options (or very close to it), then you know the UVW is correct, if not, it is another point of contention with Winnie and FL. Weigh both axles independently again, have each weight certified ( a few more dollars) and present all the fact to Winnie and FL. At 800lbs, you cannot even leave a park safely with full tanks (grey and black). You will be overweight for sure.

Sorry for the bad news, but hopefully you make a point and get what you paid for. Please use this forum again when you have some results to share. I'd love to know. Good luck!!

[rebelsbeach]

Trace,your UVW dscription is "right on" according to my weight sheet....

Mine says just that...."UVW is the weight of this motor home as manafactured at the factory with full fuel,engine oil and coolants."

I do however find a little "wiggle" in their "three sleeping berths" times 154 pounds.
While I understand this helps the "apples to apples" comparison,I would think there's actualy room for one more body on the couch and at least one on the dinette.

[BigTrace]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rebelsbeach:

I do however find a little "wiggle" in their "three sleeping berths" times 154 pounds.
While I understand this helps the "apples to apples" comparison,I would think there's actualy room for one more body on the couch and at least one on the dinette. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Bud,

I agree with you. The MFG rates according to the amount of people "They" say it can hold. All our coaches hold 4 people according to Winnie so the weight for people should be 4 x 154 or 616 for the calc to get to CCC. If you only travel with 2, you should have 300+ more CCC if you both weigh less than 308lbs combined (which could be hard to do in some cases!!). Anyhow, the converse is true when you carry more bodies or more "people weight" than the 616, then you would subtract from the CCC. Of course, I know I'm preachin to the choir .

Take care..

[kenbt]

Big Trace:
I know when I weighed by coach it was loaded with all our food, clothes and mis camping equipment carried in the storage compartments. I weighed in at approx the GVWR of 29,410. So even though I only had a half tank of water, I probably made up the difference in weight with all I loaded into it. We do pack a little too much sometimes because the wife believes we have to take the whole kitchen from the house with us. When it comes time to replace these tires, I will up grade them to increase the GVWR probably another 2000 to 3000 lbs.

[BigTrace]

I'm glad to hear you did have some "stuff" on board when you weighed. The question would be though, did you have anybody in the coach when you weighed? If not, that will put you over for any trip!!. Have you placed a call to Winnie or Freighliner to see if your axles are rated to 12000 and 20000? If so, a tire change would be in order before a blow out!! Just want you to be safe while your out there.

[CalTex]

Looking at the recommended pressure/load chart for the Michelin 255/80 XRVs that came on my Vectra, the max load is at 110 psi. That max load matches the ratings for the front and rear axles as specified by Winnebago.

The Goodyear G670RVs that I put on my Vectra have that carrying capacity at 85 psi - big difference. At 110 psi the GYs carry 12,508 on the front and 23,200 on the rear.

I haven't been able to get Freightliner or Winnebago to tell me the axle ratings yet.

I don't think I an exceeding the 29,410 GVWR, but I feel better with a little more tire capacity.

[rebelsbeach]

CalTex,on my 2006 40KD Vectra it came with XZA3's which are "H" rated tires with a max PSI of 120.
The XZA3's are made by the Michelin man...

At 110 PSI they're rated 13840 or 25560 dual

At 120 PSI they're rated 14320 or 26440 dual