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Old 10-07-2021, 08:16 AM   #15
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Location: Fairfield, CA
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We have the same flat floor slide setup in our 04 Journey. About 5 years ago, we had to have the slide rams fitted with new nylon guides, etc. The shop we went to ran the slide out all the way as normal. They then placed blocking under the slide and proceeded to remove both rams. They replaced all the nylon guides and lubricated all the parts necessary, then re-installed the rams and removed the blocks. We were able to stay in the coach overnight in their lot. The slide does not have to be removed.
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Old 10-13-2021, 10:55 AM   #16
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: behind the steering wheel
Posts: 2,135
i take the rubber seal off, and clean it thoroughly with wd-40.
reinstall it on the box, then start at opposing corners .
slip the corner of the rubber seal over the plexiglass.
do all four corners.
i took a long flat blade screwdriver and bent the end to a 90 degree with the flat
point parallel to a flat surface. bout 1 inch from the end. insert the flat screwdriver
under the edge of the seal and list it slightly. use your fingers to force the seal over the plexiglass.
it takes practice but that is what works best for me.
as far as the design of the box, i see no problem with it. when the seal in in place, the box is waterproof. ive never seen a box, when the seal is correctly re installed to leak.
hwh has no say whatsoever in the placement of the pump assembly on any coach.
the manufacturer determines that. no one else.
i also have to work on coaches that have horrible placement.
the folks that decide placement never have to work on them, outside our own engineers, as far as i know.
the led system that is used for diagnosis is by far one of the easiest systems i have worked on.
each led has a specific function. if it lights or doesnt light, according to the chart, your diagnosis is done. replace the bad part. it will even tell you when you have a bad ground, thats what all those yellow leds do.
this stuff is not rocket science. even if you stayed at holiday inn, you can fix it. but not often without a service manual.
you may find a blown fuse, but a blown fuse is a symptom mostly, not a fix. do the diagnosis, dont just start replacing parts. its cheaper to test than buy.

90 percent of all intermittent problems are grounds. so that what i check first.
if in doubt, just connect one end of a pair of auto jumper cables to the body of the pump and ground the other to a ground point on the frame.
then tighten the two bolts underneath the pump assembly that hold it to the mounting bracket. thats the main hwh ground.
if you need a service manual, text your email address to 602 549 3638
i need year, brand and model of your coach. automatic level or what?
i will email you a service manual.
i recommend printing it out so you have all the charts and guides in the back to do a good diagnosis. you cant just trust it to memory. especially the led guides.
if you need help, please call me. i can help. my phone is never turned off.paul maddox
i work full time for hwh corp. i do not solicit part sales on this forum.i do not do service work except by assignment from hwh corp.
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Old 10-13-2021, 11:16 AM   #17
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hwh does not design the slides. we design the mechanisms that move it out and back in.
the mfg tells us what they want, we build the pieces that move it in and out. if they wanted it different,they would have said so.

winn was fine with the room floor sliding on the coach floor, so that is what we designed the mechanisms to do. out, then back in, time after time.

the control box with the plexiglass front is one of the easiest system i have ever worked on. 90 percent of all diagnostic work is done right there using the leds.
i will admit, that placement of the pump assembly is one of the harder ones i have worked on, but patience goes a long ways doing difficult repairs.
i would remove that box to replace the front. after determining the problem, and repairing it, so it was removed only once. you can relocate the clips that hold the box in place, just use a long drill screw.

then, just reset the level sensor when done.
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Old 10-13-2021, 12:04 PM   #18
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Location: Buena Vista, Baja California Sur
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I also had to wrestle with the plexiglass window. Seems like a door on hinges with rubber gasket would be more practical. Tiffin put the whole contraption in a basement compartment that in my option is too small. Again, the engineers don't have to work on them. I had to cut a hole in the back of the compartment to gain access to change the hydraulic pump and then fabricate a door to keep road debris out.

I do have to shout out and say thank you to Paul. He has taken the time to save my bacon a couple of times.
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Old 10-13-2021, 12:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azpete View Post
i take the rubber seal off, and clean it thoroughly with wd-40.
reinstall it on the box, then start at opposing corners .
slip the corner of the rubber seal over the plexiglass.
do all four corners.
i took a long flat blade screwdriver and bent the end to a 90 degree with the flat
point parallel to a flat surface. bout 1 inch from the end. insert the flat screwdriver
under the edge of the seal and list it slightly. use your fingers to force the seal over the plexiglass.
it takes practice but that is what works best for me.
as far as the design of the box, i see no problem with it. when the seal in in place, the box is waterproof. ive never seen a box, when the seal is correctly re installed to leak.
hwh has no say whatsoever in the placement of the pump assembly on any coach.
the manufacturer determines that. no one else.
i also have to work on coaches that have horrible placement.
the folks that decide placement never have to work on them, outside our own engineers, as far as i know.
the led system that is used for diagnosis is by far one of the easiest systems i have worked on.
each led has a specific function. if it lights or doesnt light, according to the chart, your diagnosis is done. replace the bad part. it will even tell you when you have a bad ground, thats what all those yellow leds do.
this stuff is not rocket science. even if you stayed at holiday inn, you can fix it. but not often without a service manual.
you may find a blown fuse, but a blown fuse is a symptom mostly, not a fix. do the diagnosis, dont just start replacing parts. its cheaper to test than buy.

90 percent of all intermittent problems are grounds. so that what i check first.
if in doubt, just connect one end of a pair of auto jumper cables to the body of the pump and ground the other to a ground point on the frame.
then tighten the two bolts underneath the pump assembly that hold it to the mounting bracket. thats the main hwh ground.
if you need a service manual, text your email address to 602 549 3638
i need year, brand and model of your coach. automatic level or what?
i will email you a service manual.
i recommend printing it out so you have all the charts and guides in the back to do a good diagnosis. you cant just trust it to memory. especially the led guides.
if you need help, please call me. i can help. my phone is never turned off.paul maddox
i work full time for hwh corp. i do not solicit part sales on this forum.i do not do service work except by assignment from hwh corp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azpete View Post
hwh does not design the slides. we design the mechanisms that move it out and back in.
the mfg tells us what they want, we build the pieces that move it in and out. if they wanted it different,they would have said so.

winn was fine with the room floor sliding on the coach floor, so that is what we designed the mechanisms to do. out, then back in, time after time.

the control box with the plexiglass front is one of the easiest system i have ever worked on. 90 percent of all diagnostic work is done right there using the leds.
i will admit, that placement of the pump assembly is one of the harder ones i have worked on, but patience goes a long ways doing difficult repairs.
i would remove that box to replace the front. after determining the problem, and repairing it, so it was removed only once. you can relocate the clips that hold the box in place, just use a long drill screw.

then, just reset the level sensor when done.
Paul,
Absolutely GREAT explanation of how things are thought out, installed, worked on and maintenanced. You have helped me more than a time or two and it's always been a pleasure being guided by you. Your last time was when I needed a shuttle valve for our 625 system. I procured one from you and our HWH system has been working flawless (well, almost flawless) ever since. Your EXTREME generosity is to be very well commended. I myself, can't thank you enough. By the way, when we gonna replace those air bags on your coach?
Scott
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Old 10-14-2021, 10:49 PM   #20
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Paul -

It means a HUGE amount to be able discuss these types of things with an actual, real person who really works for the manufacturer in question - HWH.

I understand that the motor home manufacturer designs system placements based on each unique floor plan, and they often have little concern for service / maintenance / repair. While I know that Winnebago has many good design features, as many have indicated here (and I have experienced directly myself), it certainly appears that many locations chosen for HWH hydraulic systems were not chosen as well as they might have been.

While my slides and leveling jack hydraulics have all been working well (except for one leveling solenoid burned out due to leaving "store" on for too long, and my “flat floor” grinding up the incline to the inside floor after the 4 nylon lift blocks failed), I pray that I never have to replace hoses or the motor on my hydraulic distribution box because it is not only almost impossible to access but a complete tangle of hydraulic hoses & cables all covered with years of road dirt & grime due to its open, unprotected location at the bottom of the chassis behind the front wheel. Wish that Winnebago could have it least enclosed all that to keep it cleaner. But thanks for agreeing that this is a pain to work on.

But onto what I believe HWH could have designed better:

* HWH flat floor system. Yes - it is designed to go in-up-in, and then out-down-out many times - but taking 1 look at the 4 split/broken nylon incline blocks, and then seeing all the slide mass that is being slid up them, it was obvious that those small blocks were being extremely over stressed for the job they are supposed to do. While I assume Winnebago holds some responsibility for requesting a flat floor design as well as specifying that three large storage compartments fit under the entire slide, it appears that HWH would have designed the entire slide ram systems to be much more robust, knowing of the task they had to perform.

But then – the hydraulic rams were designed to slide and be supported by nylon pads and nylon inclines. It should have been known that these are wear items and as such it would have been really nice to have made them serviceable when needing replacement. But none of them are at all – short of completely disassembling all the rams.

* HWH leveling jacks. It would have been known by all engineers the location of these jacks – hanging down low under the coach, fully exposed to road water and corrosive salts. Knowing this – why are not all the leveling jack components not made of rustproof materials? Not only are exposed bolts rusting but the return spring pairs on each jack are thoroughly rusted. Seems like a simple thing to specify more corrosion resistant springs given their exposed location. I suppose Winnebago takes some of the blame for this by not demanding better materials there too.

So Paul – it sounds like you have done extensive service work on HWH systems on coaches which have seen years of service, and that you likely agree with much of my assessment for better designs, system locations and serviceability. But the difference is that you might be in a position to influence engineers (both HWH and RV manufacturers) into improving some of these issues. If you can then that is all we can ask.

So thanks for being open, honest and helpful in your comments above. It is greatly appreciated.
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Old 10-15-2021, 04:40 PM   #21
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hwh now has a platform lift slide room mechanism that works very differently from the room that slides on the floor.
all the weight of the room is supported by the slide mechanism. its used extensively by the horse trailer industry and some of the rv industry. it is by far a superior design.
but as you know, the bottom line that shows profit or loss comes into play almost all the time.
personally, i dont have problem with pumps being exposed to the weather. all our parts are waterproof, and can withstand most weather conditions.
yes salty roads cause springs to rust, but when is the last time you sprayed them off after a long winter trip.
i just saw a 1997 winnebago with the old springs, and they retracted just fine.
i do agree with you about some of the older designs. yes looking back, they could have been made more tech friendly, and the placement of some pump assemblies is atrocious, but i have learned long ago to just go with the flow, and put in a word when you can. we now have a telescoping straight down and kick down jack by suggestions.
almost all decisions about new rvs and their design is based on cost, and how it looks. finished product presentation is all about how it pleases the eye. not making the service tech happy.

when you get into the higher line coaches, they have to pay more attention to the design of the coach. and there is why hwh designed the uso and plaform lift. neither touches the floor.
i sympathize with all of you, because i have tyo work with the same stuff.
it is getting better, but its a slow process.
anytime you need some help, please call me at 602 549 3638
paul maddox i am a full time employee of hwh corp. my phone is on all the time.
please leave me a message and i will call back asap.
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