Lane Closure Driving

[Steverino]

Originally Posted by MRUSA14

The zipper merge requires that everyone be courteous and cooperate with each other.

Fat chance!

Well, yes. You've found the fly in the ointment, as it were.

[BobGed]

Minnesota is one of the states that is actively using the zipper merge and they have found they have the most success by posting vaguer warning signs like "Road work ahead," "Lane closed ahead" and "Merge ahead," in addition to "Stay in your lane," all without referencing which lane was actually closed until you're at the point when it's time to merge.

Of course it's not a law and probably won't be anytime soon. However it seems that younger drivers are more agreeable to it, so I think we'll see more states at least experimenting with it in the future.

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by Superburban

Years ago when I was driving truck, I had a run where I delivered in Baltimore md, then had to run across I70, to Frederick Md, to pick up a load. One summer, they had construction on a small bridge about 1/2 way. The signs were like left lane closed 5 miles ahead, merge right. Then a bit later, left lane close 3 miles ahead, merge right now. and a few more until you got to the construction. Traffic flowed smoothly, with hardly any slowdown. a few months later, When they switched lanes, the signs said right lane closed 5 miles ahead, use both lanes to lane closure. then right lane close 3 miles ahead, use both lanes to lane closure. Traffic changed from flowing smoothly, to both lanes backed up for miles. it was that way every day, and my company had to get another driver to make the pickup, because I could no longer get to the pickup point before they closed. They ended up having to change several drivers runs, because of me not being able to make the pickup. I had a 53 foot trailer, so I could not just find another way around the construction. Cost me several hundred dollars a week, in lost pay. I ended up leaving that company, all because of the change in traffic merging.



Traffic flows best, if people move to the open lane as soon as they can, instead of flying up to the lane closure. When you do that, the traffic in the open lane has to slow down to let the other traffic in, which slows it down for everyone. Of course, the construction folks like it, as traffic goes past them slower, and they feel safer.


Yes, many sings now say to use both lanes to the lane closure point, but that is to slow everyone down. They do not care about traffic flow.


Flying up past all the traffic that has already merged, is legal in some states, but not morally right anywhere.

Finally, some real world anecdotal experience.
Thanks.

[RVPioneer]

Zipper or no zipper, why was everyone in the left lane if both lanes were open for the next 5 miles?



Not too bright if you ask me.


Try state highways instead of the interstates. More scenic, less stressful and sometimes the shortest distance from A to B.


Now, let'st get all the rage out here on the forum so it doesn't end up on the road.

[Solask]

The only time I’ve seen a traffic zipper in action is exiting a crowded church parking lot after a service.

[Hit_the_Rhod]

Originally Posted by rrtribble

Why is it that drivers, even 18 wheelers don't know the law for merging when entering construction areas?

Yesterday I was on 55 North of St Louis in the right lane. Sign said right lane closed 5 miles. the left lane was already backed up over 10 miles. As i crested a hill a tanker about 100 yards ahead of me pulled out of the left lane into the right where I was driving so I started slowing down. As I drew closer he was blocking all lanes and stopped and laid on his horn causing me to lock up the brakes throwing my wife who was just setting down after using the bathroom. Thank God she was not hurt.

The law states that both lanes of traffic are to proceed to the closure and then merge in a zipper fashion but it seems few realize this since they don't practice it.

I'm going to talk to our local stations about an educational program which they could incorporate into a news feed when commenting on closures. My local driver training people have already agreed to add an added emphasis to their students.

Any additional ideas on how we can promote safe and courteous driving, especially when merging would be appreciated.

rrtribble, I'm not conversant with the laws in our 50 states regarding merging, but your post brings up another point, which I believe is more important than possibly unruly drivers habits.

I am pretty sure that the law in all 50 states states that passengers in RV's must remain seated, with seats belted while the vehicle is in motion.

I hear your frustration regarding the tanker truck doing something that you do not agree with, but if your wife had been in her seat with her belt fastened, she wouldn't have been at risk of injury from your rapid stop.

Not meaning to steal or borrow the thread, but by concentrating on the actions of the trucker, you may be missing the more important issue here.

[Bigd9]

Originally Posted by BobGed

Minnesota is one of the states that is actively using the zipper merge and they have found they have the most success by posting vaguer warning signs like "Road work ahead," "Lane closed ahead" and "Merge ahead," in addition to "Stay in your lane," all without referencing which lane was actually closed until you're at the point when it's time to merge.

Of course it's not a law and probably won't be anytime soon. However it seems that younger drivers are more agreeable to it, so I think we'll see more states at least experimenting with it in the future.

As a retired road construction engineer certified in designing and implementing traffic control systems, we tried this procedure. It worked great on paper, but when you throw in actual people driving vehicles it didn't work as well as we had hoped. We had public service announcements on the radio and TV (when we could get them to do it), and variable message boards announcing the future merge, broadcasted announcement on the CB radios and even tried traffic signals to meter the traffic.

The problem we ran into was two-way radios. Drivers would contact each other miles ahead of the closure, find out what lane was closed, merge into the open lane. Then they seemed to think they were privileged because they had gotten into the open lane early and they would refuse to let the closed lane traffic enter "their" lane. We tried posting a police officer at the merge point, but that made things worse and caused more accidents in both directions as drivers were gawking wondering what the Cop was doing.

It is important to get traffic to use all lanes, especially where there are off and on ramps to contend with. Also, by using all lanes until the "zipper point" then you effectively reduce the backup by half.

BTW, please slow down especially in construction zones. You would be surprised what drivers do when confronted with the "Orange Barrel". We have had drivers stop in the driving lane, and try to get someone's attention to ask directions to this or that. We have had had wide loads hit the concrete finishing machines, truckers intentionally "clipping the barrels" to see who could knock the most consecutive barrels off their bases, and more drunk drivers than you would ever imagine driving out there.

[RVPioneer]

Originally Posted by Hit_the_Rhod

rrtribble, I'm not conversant with the laws in our 50 states regarding merging, but your post brings up another point, which I believe is more important than possibly unruly drivers habits.

I am pretty sure that the law in all 50 states states that passengers in RV's must remain seated, with seats belted while the vehicle is in motion.

Michigan does not require passengers to wear seat belts in a MH. Some states allow passengers to ride in 5th wheels and TT's. Quite a few allow passengers to ride in truck campers. Ever see a seat belt in any of those?

[RVPioneer]

Which lane will the autonomous vehicle choose? It is much smarter than humans after all.

[rrtribble]

I want to thank each participant for your input. While the experience is real I posted it here to discover the prevailing driving habits of fellow RVers.

I talked to an Illinois State Police Officer this morning about the situation. In Illinois there is no State Ordinance or Law requiring zippering in Illinois - so I stand corrected.

My international driver training, in the Army, Europe, and US every instructor presented 'zippering' as the common sense method of driving in congested area.

It seems the problem stems from a large majority of drivers not wanting anyone to get ahead of them. We've all experienced the 4 wheeler racing to close distance between them and the vehicle ahead of them to keep an 18 wheeler or rv from merging after they see our turn signal and many times hanging in our blind spots. Frustration mounts for all and I've seen some dumb things happen as I'm sure you have too.

The ISP officer I spoke to did inform me that in Illinois that any driver blocking the free flow of traffic is in violation of the law and can be ticketed.

In addition he stated that the tanker truck driver, or anyone doing the same would be prosecuted under Illinois Law and if an accident occurred HE would be liable. I'm glad no one was seriously hurt but consider this, if my brakes had failed as I crested the hill and struck that tanker many could have been killed or seriously injured. I'm sure that was not his intent but it could have happened and I need to correct a mistake in my original post, it was not 100 yards but about 100 feet. It was all I could do to stop without striking him in the side of the tanker.

We need to drive safe.

Thank you again for all your input. Maybe we have all learned something valuable from this post. I know I have.

[Clay L]

Originally Posted by rrtribble

SNIP

The law states that both lanes of traffic are to proceed to the closure and then merge in a zipper fashion but it seems few realize this since they don't practice it.

I'm going to talk to our local stations about an educational program which they could incorporate into a news feed when commenting on closures. My local driver training people have already agreed to add an added emphasis to their students.

Any additional ideas on how we can promote safe and courteous driving, especially when merging would be appreciated.

The law depends on the state. The "zipper" mode of merging is law in some states (mostly back east I think) and works well. It has long been the practice in MA and NH for example. I have started seeing signs in some states saying to use both lanes up to the closure and then merge, so the rules are changing but I think it will be a while before it is done in all states.
In states I have been in where the zipper merge in done it works quite well except for a few idiots in the left lane that won't the person on the right merge - of course there are always those types out there. Most people let one person merge as does the one behind them and it is an efficient low stress way of merging.

[Solask]

I don't see the zipper working at the dual lane McDonald's either.

[Mudfrog]

Originally Posted by MRUSA14

The zipper merge requires that everyone be courteous and cooperate with each other.

Fat chance!

Nascar drivers would be good candidates for something like this. Us everyday drivers though, no way. Even if everyone tried being courteous, there's still too many variables and styles of driving to make it work.

When I was young, a longggg time ago, I sometimes drove up and merged at the last minute. I prided myself on matching speed and merging into the small space between other vehicles. I didn't think I was causing any problems or slowing anyone down. It took a little time but i finally realized drivers behind me almost always slowed to put some safe distance between his vehicle and mine. It's a natural reaction with almost everyone and it does slow traffic down every time it occurs.

Like others have said,, get on over and wait your turn just like the rest of us.

[Superburban]

States are adopting it, and construction companies like it, because it slows down the traffic at the construction point. Even in those videos, you can see vehicles coming to a stop, to let the other lane over. The two lanes have to slow down for the construction zone speed, then they have to slow down even more to let the two lanes merge into one.



If everyone would merge long before the lane closure, then traffic would move steadily through, without much time loss. Only slowing down to match the lower speed for the construction zone. You see it work every day on the old US highways. Two lanes merge into one, they all slow down going through a small town, then speed up after they are through. The backups occur from the people that fly up past everyone to get ahead, then they make others have to slow down to make room.