New CA "clean air" gas pump nozzles don't fit our vehicle !

[Scooter]

We have a '04 Sightseer 27C on a P32. In CA few weeks ago. Found that some major service stations (Shell, Chevron, 76) are converting their gas (not diesel) pump nozzles to CA mandated "clean air" nozzles.

All well and good. Except the new handles are twice the size of the old handles and they do not permit the nozzle to go down into our filler tube and activate the pump. Our 8 inch x 8 inch door to get to the gas cap does not permit this. The handles are too wide and too high.

Had to go to other pumps or gas stations to find the old style handles. It seems that by April of 2010 all gas pumps in CA will have the new, bigger handles/nozzles.

W/I was no help. Couple of friends advised to pull the nozzle accordion rubber boot back with one hand and run the pump trigger with the other.

I was thinking of experimenting with various sizes and lengths of PVC in order to construct an "extender" so the large handle will not be an issue.

This was discussed in the Nov 09 issue of MotorHome on p.56, TechSavy, and concerned an 03 Airstream on an 02 WH chassis. No real solution given except pulling back the rubber boot.

This is probably more than a W/I issue so if the moderator wants to move this to another section, OK.

Anyone else out there, in CA or elsewhere, having this problem?

[Bumper]

Yet another reason why I am glad I dont live there anymore......

[Stevegd007]

Scooter....YES....I too have had this exact problem with using this new fuel nozzle. More that just once...but alot. I have attached a picture (hopefully) of the nozzle. I have written emails to Chevron, Shell and Winnebago and...well no one will help. An I too have been thinking of a donut like device to defeat the spring part of the nozzle...so you can fill up with gas. Only needs to be like 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch high to hold the spring up far enough. Let us know if you come up with a working idea.

You know others have to have run into this problem. As other States like to follow California's lead on environmental ideas...so I would think that soon coming to a State near you RV'ers will be this same device. Be prepared! It is not easy getting fuel on board with these goofy fuel nozzles!

[Scooter]

I had not thought of a doughnut-like device. Are you thinking of a bean bag or a hacky-sack with a hole in the middle, sewn up to let the nozzle through, yet engage the rubber accordion boot?

In our case it seems, offhand, the doughnut would have to be 4 inches thick. Dunno.

[Stevegd007]

Scooter...4 inches thick...thats a lot. Anyway I am on currently on the road and I was looking for something I had in the RV. I found a small roll of electrical tape, that has a bigger than normal center hole. Next fuel stop I tried using the roll of tape and surprise it worked. I still have some problems but at least I could fuel the RV somewhat better. I think it needs to be somewhat thicker, for my needs, anyway.

You can see by the response seen here (this issues is a BIG for some of us) but others, i.e. Winnebago could care less. The major Gas companies will not fix the problem. So a design change for the fuel inlet is needed. Good luck getting that from Winnebago anytime soon.

[YesMan]

I've seen fellow motorcyclists use these:

McCuff® "No Splash, No Spill, Motorcycle Fill" Everyone Wants One! No Clicking Nozzles! More Miles from Tank! Top-Off EZ, Unique Motorcycle Biker Gift Fathers Day! Gas up your motorcycle with ease!

[Wayne M]

Well, I would look in the pet stores for a dog toy that meets the specifications of 4", or maybe even two 2" doughnuts taped together.

Bozo may even have on in their toy box.

Good luck.

[Stevegd007]

YesMan...Had on idea this tank filling device was out there. From the looks of this it may work. Might order myself one. Still the nozzle needs to drop into the fill tube enough to open the little valve inside. If this valve does not drop, gas will not flow into the tank. But I will not know until I try this thing with these new "goofy" gas nozzles. Thanks for the idea!

[Scooter]

I ordered the V-twin McCuff today. $19.97 + $3.96 shipping. Greg told me I could return it, if it does not work.

He also told me Winnebago corporate had talked to him about the McCuff. Not sure what transpired. Greg advises about 80 W/I owners had ordered this item and none returned.....yet.

Not planning to go to CA for awhile and have not yet run into any oversized CA- type gasoline nozzles in our area (Southern OR).

Thanks, YesMan

[HD4Mark]

There was one of those accordion boot things on a pump where I work years ago. The thought was to not let fumes escape. It, of course worked terrible. Same issues, you couldn't get the thing pushed in enough. Finally someone put a big wire tie around the nozzle to hold the stupid boot back.

[YesMan]

No problem. Glad to help!

[Scooter]

I faxed a letter about this problem to Robert J. Olson, CEO of W/I and got a call today from Troy of W/I advising they are aware of this problem and there are a few RV'ers in CA using the McCuff. No feed back yet from them.

OK you folks in CA........have you tried the McCuff and how did it work ?

Troy's # is 800.537.1885 and Olson's fax is 641.585.6806.

[Tcloud7]

I will go one better. just stay out of Calif

[Don99]

We have a 2008 Voyage 35L. The new California Healy nozzles don't fit and being a California resident that is a problem for us. Our initial solution was to modify an old oil can spout, the kind that we used to use when oil came in cans, not plastic bottles. We broke off the cutter and the nozzle became our extension. Off course you have to hold up the rubber seal or the gas won't flow and that is a pain for 50+ gallons. We have used a piece of wood to hold up the rubber seal but you still have to hold the nozzle for the entire fill. The use of the extension also has a tendency to cause an overflow as the automatic cutoff doesn't work well with the extension. Still looking for a better solution. Have not had this problem in any other states so far.

It's not just a rubber seal problem for us because you can't get the nozzle down far enough. Haven't tried the McCuff, but will give it a look.

[Scooter]

I have thought about, but not actually tried, to piece together various sizes and lengths of thick-wall PVC (maybe using a 45 or a 22-1/2 elbow) to finally get something that will go down into the full tube and still hold up the accordion rubber boot to allow gasoline to flow.

I'm not going to CA for 3-4 months so maybe someone out there a little more clever and a little more motivated can construct something similar to what I am thinking. And then post a photo.

[Scooter]

Well let's take another approach:

Here are the dimensions of my filler door: 8" x 8"
Now we come to a oval recessed area that houses the gas cap. It is 5-1/2" high by 4-1/2" wide. The gas cap is recessed about 4" in, from the filler door.

So now, the accordion rubber is not able to squeeze onto the open filler tube. This prevents the gas from flowing. The filler tube goes straight down about 6" and make a 45 degree turn to the gas tank.

What are the dimensions of your filler door and is the gas cap recessed, like mine? Is there a recessed area that limits the dimensions for your CA "clean air" nozzle?

Thank you

[Don99]

The solution below outlines how to use both a vintage oil can spout along with a McCuff in order to get around California's EVR fuel nozzles. It works very well for us. However, that being said, we have Redlands Truck working on other solutions.

Photo 1 below (Fuel Cabinet) shows the fueling clearance and difficult angle of fuel cap on our 2008 Winnebago Voyage 35L.



Photo 2 below (Pump Nozzle) shows the new EVR (Enhanced Vapor Recovery) nozzle now required in California. Problem is two-fold: 1) Because of the angle of the of the fuel fill line on the Voyage, the new bulky pump head will not fit within the Winnebago Voyage fueling cabinet; and 2) the nozzle itself has been shortened by several inches, so the nozzle can’t “pierce” the fueling flap in the gas tank.


Photo 3: below (Pump Head Nonclearance) shows the EVR nozzle cannot fit far enough into the fueling cabinet (trust me, I’ve tried every possible angle). The nozzle hits the side of the rig so you can’t get it in deep enough.


Photo 4 below: (Oil Can Spout Before Dismantling): In order to extend the gas pump nozzle, we dismantled a vintage motor oil can spout and reconfigured it as follows: 1) removed the piercing portion (quite easy – just grabbed it with pliers and pulled apart); 2) the metal is quite malleable, so we used pliers to pull back the metal until it accommodated the tip of the fuel pump nozzle; and 3) we slightly bent the spout itself to accommodate our gas tank angle.


Photo 5 below: (Adapter Works But Holding Cuff). While adapting the oil can spout succeeded in extending the nozzle to pierce the gas tank flap, we still had to hold back the rubber cuff. Otherwise, the pump would engage for no longer than several seconds and then shut off due to vapor escaping..



Photo 6 below (McCuff Holds Back Cuff in Adapter). We found that using a McCuff (http://www.mccuff.com) between the pump nozzle and our oil can spout successfully holds back the rubber cuff on the pump nozzle.


Finally, all we need to do now is support the nozzle hose while the coach greedily gulps fuel. Interestingly, the McCuff is actually made for fueling motorcycles, and it’s intended purpose is to shorten the nozzle. What we’re trying to accomplish here is to elongate the nozzle. Make sure to place the McCuff between the oil can spout and the fuel pump nozzle. Otherwise, it defeats the purpose of extending the nozzle length.


WARNING: Since we are manipulating the heck out of the fueling process, fuel will overflow when the tank is full. We do our best to estimate how much fuel is needed and then shut off the pump at that point. Can’t say we’ve completely succeeded every time. Just pay attention when you’re getting close, and the backflow won’t be too terrible.


Finding an oil can spout if you’re not pack rats like us: There are plenty available on eBay (search for “Vintage Oil Can Spout”). However, do not use spouts that show rust. Also, we cleaned the oil out of our spout before using by soaking it in Simple Green. Then, before use, we ran gasoline through it to remove any other residuals. We are hesitant about using plastic funnels, etc., as gasoline will break down the plastic over time, and then who knows what those byproducts will do to gunk up the gas tank, cylinders, etc.?

[RVThere]

NJ has wacky gas nozzles too. But since our state outlaws self service gas stations, the fill problems rest on the gas attendant. I have seen them ram pens between the nozzle collar and the fill opening, hold the collar back by hand, etc.

[Don99]

While using the vintage oil can filler spout works for us, we have also tried to make various plastic funnels work. We never found one that worked without some modification. The biggest problem was getting the right angle. The best we did with a plastic funnel was one of the ones with a flexible tube as that allowed us to get the right angle. With a little modification we probably could have gotten it to hold the rubber cuff back too. It all depends on the angle of your gas fill tube and gas cap. Our solution may not work for others, but we are more comfortable using a metal spout than a plastic funnel.

The keys to making it all work are extending the nozzle enough to depress the flap in the filler tube, getting the right angle, and finding a way to hold the rubber cuff back. (We also tried using a pen before we go the McCuff.) Even with all that you still have to hold the nozzle through the entire fill and you have to watch for the overflow as the automatic shutoff doesn't work with our modifications. We have not had a problem or needed our solution in AZ, OR (they also don't allow self service), WA or British Columbia.

[Stevegd007]

Good post Don99. What about the McCuff use alone, without the oil spout? Finally Winnebago should step up to the plate and fix this issues on our MH's, but my guess is hold your breath and you will turn blue before any help from Winney.