Onan Ec-30 Install in Journey

Pusherman · 05-20-2007, 03:22 PM

I just completed and tested the install of an Onan EC-30 Energy Command automatic generator start system in my '07 Journey 34H. I cannot believe how simple the install process went. My thanks go out to Bill Smith for his orignal post Here and to Garybtt for his council on my questions. Bill's directions were spot-on relative to accuracy.

The install took me all of 5 hours, taking my time in the process. The biggest issue for me was running to Radio Shack for the appropriate parts. Note it took me another 2 hours to go through the test and setup process, again taking my time to verify all aspects worked.

I mounted the EC-30 90degrees around the corner, in the bathroom. This way I did not have to move any switches in the One Place panel to accomodate the EC-30 control panel. Opened up the One Place panel, and had access to every thing I needed for the install, including mounting the control unit.

Essentially all connections were made behind the One Place panel, with the exception of the Ignition Sense line.

The only modification I had to make during the test process was to change the polarity of my 110V to 12V transformer to make it work properly.

I won't go into the details other than the challenges which previous folks have posted relative to the install:

Safety signal -- Needs to have either an ignition signal or a brake lite signal to work. I was able to route a 2-conductor line (18ga) to the electrical compartment where the external power line is located. In this compartment there are 2 fuse blocks for the ECM (engine and tranny stuff (?)) and also for the electrical relays and fuses for the toad signal/brake/running light connections. I was able to identify a line (white wire to the top fuse block) which was an ignition line. Above this location is a great place to tap a neutral line. Here is where I secured the ignition safety signals (positive and ground).

I routed a 2-conductor 18ga line from the One place center down the wall, under the hamper. I opened up the floor under the sink (6 screws) and was then able to route this wire under the shower base and route the wire to the electrical compartment (Note I opened up the air vent under the shower and was able to use a long wand to push the wire back to where the plumbing and some other wiring entered the water/electrical compartment. It was then easy to route the wires to the right side of the outside compartment to the fuse blocks). I ran the 2-conductor wires in flexible black conduit as is standard in the Winnie installs.

The next challenge folks have had is to identify a 110V source independent of the inverter. Not sure if I got lucky or what, but I was able to verify that my engine block heater switch, which is located in the 'One Place' center, was independent of the inverter. I verified this thru the circuit breaker panel in the coach, as well as testing the circuit independently.

So to get a 110V source behind the One Place panel was easy. I purchased a 110V RV receptacle at my local Camping World. All I had to do was identify the 'line' side of the engine block heater switch (which was marked with a red tape) and install this receptacle in line from the engine block heater behind the One Place panel.

I purchased a (500mA) 110V to 12V transformer which plugs in to a standard receptacle from Radio Shack. This provided the 110V power sense to the EC-30.

All tests were 'Go'.

This is the best addition I have made to my coach. The reason for this install is to make sure we don't 'cook' our 2 Golden Retrievers in the event of a power outage in the campground. This actually happened to us a few years ago (didn't cook the pooches, thank God!) when we went to a campground in Newport, RI in July, with the ambient temps in the 90+'s.

We left the dogs in the coach to tour the mansions, and sure enough, when we got back, the electric in the campground was out!!!!! Luckily it was only in the high 80's in the coach at this time. Pooches were OK.

But I wanted a back-up system which would preclude this in the future. I am grateful to Onan for developing the EC-30.

This is absolutely a 'do-it yourself job' for those who are handy and are somewhat electrically inclined.

smlranger · 05-20-2007, 04:03 PM

Don:

Thanks for the post and the info. Guess I'll do this one too. I need to check with the local Onan/Cummins shop and see if they can order....I need the EC-30 and 18" wiring harness...correct?

I'll poke around in my electrical bay to see if I have the fuse blocks with the ignition wires. Any chance you took some pics for us?

Pusherman · 05-20-2007, 04:17 PM

Gary,

I ordered the EC-30 from Onan Indiana (factory). EC-30 was $200. 18" pigtail was $27.90. Shipping was $7.83. (574)262-4611.

The fuse blocks were behind a piece of sheet metal, 6 screws to remove, in the electrical compartment.

I'm not real good on uploading the pictures (I should!! - need to learn!), but I'll give it a try.

jimandsue60 · 05-21-2007, 03:57 AM

Glad it worked out for you.

Jim

garybtt · 05-21-2007, 01:24 PM

So glad that it was an easy install and you found a way to run wires. Now I will need to keep trying to find a way to run the safety wire to the brake light.

SCVJeff · 05-21-2007, 10:55 PM

I'm glad to hear the Winne changed their wiring. The entire coach is carried on my '06 Meridian's 2k inverter, block heater and all..

vicsryd · 05-22-2007, 10:27 AM

Don,

In your '07 was the genset status lead available in the wiring bundle behind the One Place?

In my rig the geset leads include everything but that line. I am going to have to run it separately.

Pusherman · 05-22-2007, 01:41 PM

Jon,

Yes -- it was in the one-place center. Note the original instructions which state it is the Purple wire to the Gen Set indicator light in the One Place, and is jumpered to the Red wire which runs to the hour meter.

You should have access to this connection in your One Place if you 1) have an indicator light which comes on when the genset is running, or 2) the hour meter tap. Same connection.

vicsryd · 05-22-2007, 02:58 PM

I ran the test Onan has in their installation guide which is to press the generator stop switch (in One Place) three times in succession to show "current status". The green light on the dash gen start/stop switch flashed in response but the generator run light in One Place did not. Thus the run light in One Place for my rig does not show true status (i.e. fault codes) and I have to run a separate wire to the generator harness if I want the EC-30 to interpret the fault codes.

peter griffin · 05-23-2007, 10:25 AM

that is correct you need a seperate wire. Follow the back of the onan manual and read the correct pin on the wiring harness of the gen. make sure you follow the correct diagram the diesel gen is wired different than gas. if your ec 30 works correctly you will be able to go into the fault mode and see the screen read the fault code out on the screen in english letters. The ec30 instructions on this web site about wiring it are not 100 percent correct but the ec30 will still work but will only get flashing error codes.

Pusherman · 05-23-2007, 02:30 PM

Jon,

My genset start switches work the same way; the only one that flashes is the one on the dash.

May not get the diagnostics to the EC-30, but everything else works.

arkaussie · 07-13-2007, 05:21 PM

G'day Don,

I have finally got around to installing my EC30. I have most of the wiring done now. Found that the A/C wires come from the t/stat up behind the oneplace panel so it was easy to do. I used Wire 11 (HVAC #2) to hook the heat wire to so my gen will come on if the heat pump is called for.

I do have a question, wires 13 & 14 are listed as ground and positive 12V for detecting 110 presence. I have the 110 to 12volt transformer wired in but I cannot detect which is negative. My meter reads the same either way I connect it. Any ideas?

Without all the info on this forum I would most likely not tried to do this myself so thanks to all who have posted great info, made it easy to do.

Cruzer · 07-14-2007, 03:36 AM

Hi Don,

I too have the EC-30 in my Allegro Bus. It sounds like your installation went pretty well and I'm sure you'll enjoy the EC-30. It's a very nice unit.

I do see one potential problem with your install though and it's regarding the AC presence connection. The EC-30 needs to see if there is shore power is connected so that it doesn't start your generator unless the shore power is either disconnected or has gone out from a power failure. It does this by routing 120 VAC through a transformer to reduce it to 12 volts and then feeding that signal to the EC-30. In my case when I switch off the pedestal breaker (and the AGS is in Auto Start mode and the A/C is running) the genset fires up. Whenever I restore the shore power it shuts off.

In your setup you are getting your 120 volt signal from the hot side of the engine block heater outlet. I'm assuming that this outlet is wired off your main breaker panel, which means that it can be powered by either shore power or the generator set.

In this situation I would think that as soon as the generator auto starts, it would supply power to your EC-30 on the AC presence leads (#13 and 14) and would shut your system down right away because it would think that shore power has been restored. Did you test the system under these exact circumstances? I would think that it would short cycle and recycle continuously with a certain time delay.

In my setup the Onan supplied transformer is mounted right to the automatic transfer switch and connected to the shore power input leads inside the switch. That way it won't feed a signal to the EC-30 when the generator is running - only when the shore power is hot.

Lindsay,

A transformer is strictly an AC device. It transforms voltage up or down. In your case you are inputting 120 volts AC and outputting 12 volts AC. There is no positive or negative on AC output. The only way to convert to DC, which does have polarity, is to add a diode to it. I don't see a diode anywhere on my stystem but my manual also shows the positive and negative labels on wires #13 and 14. Yet it apparently accepts 12 volts AC and works. This is confusing. My guess is that the EC-30 can accept either AC or DC feeds as long as they are 12 volts. If you run a 12 VDC feed through arelay or whatever then you need to observe polarity. However, if you are running a 12 VAC feed then you don't have to worry about it. Anyway, this is just my guess, not fact. All I do know is that it works just fine as it is.

Pusherman · 07-14-2007, 05:01 AM

Lindsay,

What Cruzer posted is correct relative to the transformer -- should not matter which lead to use for positive vs negative out of the transformer. If you do find it doesn't work, you can switch the leads to verify if this fixes the problem.

Cruzer -- I did test the system and it did work to specification. What I didn't do is to test it for a longer period of time to see if any short cycling would occur. I will do this and report back.

NeilV · 07-18-2007, 04:59 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pusherman:
Lindsay,

What Cruzer posted is correct relative to the transformer -- should not matter which lead to use for positive vs negative out of the transformer. If you do find it doesn't work, you can switch the leads to verify if this fixes the problem.

Cruzer -- I did test the system and it did work to specification. What I didn't do is to test it for a longer period of time to see if any short cycling would occur. I will do this and report back. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am seriously considering installing an EC30 also. My inclination would be to mount a dpst relay with a 110 volt coil to the shore power side in the transfer switch and switch any one of the existing 12 volt dc leads. A relatively small relay would be required and it could be mounted in a small box beside or even mounted inside the transfer switch.

What is the current consensus on the best place to purchase? Still Onan Indiana?

Pusherman · 07-19-2007, 10:01 AM

That's where I got mine. $200 + the wiring pigtail.

NeilV · 07-23-2007, 05:02 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pusherman:
That's where I got mine. $200 + the wiring pigtail. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don,

I walked into Cummins/Onan in Tampa Florida today and picked up the only one they had in stock. Dated late fall of 2006 the cost was $180 for the EC30 and $22 for the 18" wiring harness. Came to $216 with the sales tax.

Will pick up the reccomended fuses etc and start planning the install.

Pusherman · 07-24-2007, 03:43 PM

I did some tests on my EC-30 install, and indeed found a couple problems. I let the system initiate a gen-start sequence (ac power from the pedestal shut off w/ air conditioning demand) and it did start the genset. I let it run for over an hour to determine if it would short-cycle due to Cruzer's concerns. It ran continuously.

However -- when I restored ac shore power, the genset failed to shut off. Understanding how I wired the ac sense line, no surprise. I have the ac sense line wired to the line side of the engine block heater in the One Place panel. Problem here is that this line is powered by the genset and shore power. The genset would fire up as it should, but once running, this line source would be continuously powered by the genset, even when shore power is restored, and therefore not shut down the genset.

Called Onan to verify. They confirmed my suspicion of the problem. Need to wire shore power sense from the transfer switch, so that when shore power is actually restored, the genset will shut off.

Off to purchase a 12V transformer which I will hardwire (with a fuse) into the transfer switch on the shore power side. This should solve the genset problem of not shutting down when shore power is restored.

Cruzer - thanks for your observations!

Outbumn · 07-25-2007, 02:24 AM

I'll tell you, the Onan guys at GNR were not very helpfull when I asked them about an EC-30 for our Suncruiser. The first think out of their mouth was that it was "hard" to install and you should have purchased your unit with it already installed.

After reading this posting, i am still considering it.

Cruzer · 07-25-2007, 03:04 AM

The only thing that might be hard is the fact that there are a bunch of wires that have to go to the EC-30. You need wires from the thermostat, shore power sense, saefty switch, genset, etc. On some coaches it can be a job fishing all those wires to the panel, but that's about the worst of it.

You have basement air, so you're fine there but, for those who have the Dometic Penguin style rooftop air conditioners, they use a digital interface to the thermostat via a cat5 cable. In that case you have to buy a digital-to-analog interface module so that you can communicate with the AGS.