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Old 01-06-2025, 11:12 PM   #1
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Our coach is now old enough to *Drink*

D
Well, in a metaphor kind of thought process that is. In the average state in our beautiful USA, when a person turns 21 years of age, they're now legal to drink. Our coach, a 2004 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the CAT C-7 330HP, turned 21 years old on January 4th, 2025. It was first put into service 1/4/04. We didn't put it into service waaaaaay back then, we're succeeding/subsequent owners. We have however, owned it for 13.5 years and have now, a whopping 117,500 miles on it.

It's been a pretty darn good coach. Yeah, there's been some hiccups every now and then for sure. That's a given. But, considering the less than perfect U.S. roads she's been on with pot holes galore, concrete seams, ailing pavement, and a whole lot more, she's faired the weather quite well. When not in use, it resides in its own cave, a climate controlled RV garage attached to the house. That surely helps the full body paint last longer. Since birth, it's had four sets of tires, four sets (2-each set) of chassis batteries, and five sets (3-each 12V per set and, 4-each 6V G/C batteries per set) of house batteries.

I've yanked that rear radiator out three times for a deep and thorough cleaning and some heavy maintenance of belts, hoses, tensioner and idler bearings and a water pump one time. Changed the air cleaner a couple of times and of course the oil and filter and single fuel filter a bunch of times. We're presently still running the original Sachs shocks at 117K and well, it seems to be riding and handling just fine. Heck, if I got some new ones, I'd probably realize just how bad it's presently acting.

The brakes at this age and time are still only about 50% or less worn. It's gonna be a while before we need them. The Itasca body had also faired well, as long as I keep from banging into something with it. Keeping it inside and out of the Havasu sun has preserved the full body paint quite well. Yeah, up on top of the front and rear cap and some of the side roof radius's are showing some typical signs of peeling clear coat. But, for the most part, you can't see any of that from the ground level. When any of those spots bother me enough, I'll simply get all the materials and re-shoot them with a decent clear coat.

This coach is pretty much loaded to the gills for every inch it moves down the road and, it never moves an inch without a toad. I replaced all 4 air bags a couple of years ago and one ride height sensor. I've had to rebuild the master ram for the bedroom closet slide three times and seems to be holding now. I had one incident where the J-1939 Data line quit sending and receiving signals from all the players on board and a worthless Freightliner dealer in El Paso didn't have a clue on how to fix it so, I limped it all the way home to San Diego and my son and I fixed it ourselves. I keep a spread sheet of all the things we've done, maintenanced, modified, altered, and more.

But while this coach is now 21 years old and is slightly showing its age, we're still pretty happy with it and really don't have any plans to move on to anything newer or larger. In fact, if we EVER CHANGE, it's more than likely gonna be something smaller/shorter. I think I'll be able to continue to buy parts for the chassis for some time to come. The box, not so much. Winne and Itasca (when Itasca was alive) stopped making many of the parts and components for this year coach quite a while ago. This is when a line from a Clint Eastwood movie, "Heartbreak Ridge" comes into play. You "Adapt, overcome and improvise" when the part you need is no longer in production.

WE just got back home (Lake Havasu) from our first trip of 2025 to Anza Borrego to the "Springs at Borrego" RV park. Nice place. All kinds of fun and easy trails to run the Jeeps on around that park. Annnny way, again, this coach has been a great coach to date. Time will tell as we move on.
Scott

P.S. While not very closeup shots, here she is at the Springs at Boreggo RV park recently. People still comment on how well she appears for her age. Wish I was like that,
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Old 01-06-2025, 11:16 PM   #2
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That’s a great looking coach. Ours has a serious drinking problem…but we love her anyhow.
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Old 01-07-2025, 10:15 AM   #3
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Great write-up. And thanks: You've introduced me to the J-1939 "world".
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Old 01-07-2025, 03:41 PM   #4
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Hi Scott,
My coach is one month older than yours. Took out of state delivery Dec 18, 2003 in Ehrenberg, AZ. You're right, takes a lot of care and feeding in their advanced age. Mine just clicked past 129,000 miles.

My last major repair was to replace the basement a/c heat pump. R12 freon is not available after 2020 and one compressor was dry. So $4550 later I have a new 26,000 btu that should last my lifetime of rv'ing.

Scott, I have a theory about your 3 repairs on the rear slideout hydraulics, assuming that you didn't have any similar issues with your front big slideout. On my coach after a long hot drive, heat from the front engine/transmission is absorbed by the HWH hydraulics directly above. In my case that is the large living room slide. The fluid pressure holding the slide in the out position is around 3000 psi. But the heat causes it the pressure to increase to over 5000 psi which is abut the working limits of the hose fittings. So after 6-7 years one fitting gave way and the hose popped off. In taking to our HWH resident expert AZpete about the problem, he said he had the same exact failure on his Winnie Chieftain. He gave me the part number of a retrofit kit that fixes this design problem. The kit included about 6 ft of steel break line and a shorter length of rubber line. I don't remember the theory but the steel break line/fitting holds up to something like 10,000 psi. Anyway I noticed thru the years that the diesel pushers have leaking problems with the back slide and gasser's have leaking problems with the front slide. My guess is that if there was a straight forward redesign, AZpete and the factory engineers would have come up with a retrofit kit. I've never had a single issue with my bedroom slide, that includes 9 yrs of fulltime traveling, with the slide going in/out every 1-3 weeks. Maybe you should have a discussion with AZpete and get his opinions on your 3 failures. I was wondering if you were able to do the repair on your rear slide yourself, or did you have to take it to the experts to get it fixed?

Our coach under a full moon, last November at Caliente Springs Resort, Desert Hot Springs, CA

Happy trails and stay safe,
Bill
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Old 01-08-2025, 12:40 AM   #5
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Heeeey Bill,
Great to hear from you. Hope you and Helen are doing well. Well, the "issue" with that rear slide is the master cylinder ram has developed leaks each time. And, based on how the ram works at given times, it's always been the retracting seals that leak, not the extension ones. Maybe I should say, it leaks MORE on retraction than it does on extension.

When we first acquired the coach over 13.5 years ago, it was leaking then. But, not knowing the guts of that coach, I had no idea WHY the shore power compartment had a bunch of pink-ish tranny fluid all around the door seal, the floor of the compartment and the steel paneling on the right side of the ceiling of that compartment. I'd wipe it all down with cleaning fluid and make it clean as a whistle.

Then, we'd go out on a trip and low and behold, there it all was again. This of course was also after the slide had been extended and retracted a few times. But I still was dumbfounded on where the heck all that fluid was coming from.
Then, through quite a bit of reading on this forum, I finally found out where the mystery leak was emanating from. It was the master ram on that bedroom slide. Of course, I had absolutely zero idea on just how to go about repairing this issue.

By sure luck, I happened upon a post/thread by a fellow member here that had the same exact leak. Well, he wrote a very good writeup on just how that ram is removed and replaced. And to answer your question, yes, it is ME that does the removal and repair on that ram.

In short, here's what has to happen. First, remove all sets of batteries. Then, looking behind those battery trays, you'll see a plate/panel that is basically riveted to the bulk head below the bed. You have to jam your body in behind those battery trays and drill out those rivets. Then pry with all your might, that panel off because it's also GLUED on there with something strong enough to keep a locomotive from rolling.

Now, once that's off, then the bed has to be tilted up and that foot-of-the-bed cover panel has to be removed. You know, the one that covers up the backside of the 12V circuit breakers, the house 120VAC circuit breaker panel and the Inverter breaker panel. Once that panel is off, that reveals 22,000 miles of wiring and plumbing and battery cables and anything else Winne/Itasca could stuff in there.

The base of that ram is BELOW all that wiring/plumbing/battery cables etc. and is blindly positioned to the right below the wood floor and in a square tunnel. The first and second time I removed that ram, all the work, including the removal of the hydraulic fittings was all done by BRAIL!!!!!!!! I couldn't see one tiny bit of any fitting or mounting bolts. What a serious pain in the a$$! (and arms and wrists etc!!)


Now, once all the fittings and mounting bolts are loose or off, you have to go out and through a tiny hole in the square support arm under that slide, you'll see the piston end of the ram. That must be undone too. You have to be carefull here as you undo the hydraulics though because that slide will want to creep back in. I usually cut a piece of wood to use as a stop-block to keep it from creeping back in.

Once all the connections and mounting is undone, then comes the HARD PART. You now have to grab that base of that ram, and pull it out of its cave, due to it's length, you have to worm it through all those miles of Los Angelus Freeway wiring and plumbing, out that hole where the plate you removed and out the side right over one of those battery trays, done. Yes, one serious pain in the a$$, did I mention that!

Thge actual rebuilding of it is quite simple. It comes apart quite easily and the seals can be had at any hydraulics shop. Then, everything is in reverse. The third time I had to remove it, I finally figured out that I can butcher some wood flooring out in the base of that congested area to gain far better access to that base of that ram. Waaaaaaaaaaay better.
Well, it's late and the CEO says it's time for bed. More on this later.
Scott
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Old 01-14-2025, 11:33 PM   #6
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I read your story with a lump in my throat, we have a 2006 Journey 36g with 134,000 miles on it . We bough it new and have loved every mile we put on it.
We even took it back to the factory and had it repainted last summer ! $$$
There is a saying that sailors have that “ a sailor reaches his destination the minute he steps on his boat “ that’s the way my wife and I feel when we get in our coach .
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Old 01-15-2025, 11:35 AM   #7
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I read your story with a lump in my throat, we have a 2006 Journey 36g with 134,000 miles on it . We bough it new and have loved every mile we put on it.
We even took it back to the factory and had it repainted last summer ! $$$
There is a saying that sailors have that “ a sailor reaches his destination the minute he steps on his boat “ that’s the way my wife and I feel when we get in our coach .
Hey Parrishbob,
Wow, 134K on the clock huh? That's nice to see. People really using their coaches. We don't even use ours as much as I'd like to. I think this year we're gonna get out more and do things more. Ain't gettin' any younger. You got yours repainted huh? Well, I guess that's kind-a par for the course as they say. We have friends that yours and our era coaches and theirs has sat OUTSIDE for most of their lives and the paint surely shows it.

Are you happy with your repaint? Did you change the color and graphics scheme's or just duplicate what was originally done?

As a side note, I don't know if you've paid any attention to some or many of the issues many of the later model diesel coach owners are having with DEF and DPF systems and any other smog components of later engines but, it sure is nice to have basically a non-smog component engine like yours and mine. A buddy of mine and his wife were camping with us in Borreggo lately and he got a notice of "Bad or low DEF" on his dash about an hour before we arrived at Borreggo.

He did some research while there and determined his DEF sensor/header was bad and it needed to be replaced IMMEDIATELY or his engine would go into *Derate* within a given amount of time. Well, long story short, he dared not drive anywhere, got the campground to agree for him to leave his coach in its spot until the part and the mobile repair guy could get to it, about a week later. He got it all fixed, re-set the code and low and behold, it happened again about an hour from Borreggo.

His coach DID go into derate and at times, he was lucky to achieve 25 mph on some of the 200 mile trip back home to Havasu. Man that new smog crap is a pain.
Scott
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Old 01-15-2025, 11:46 AM   #8
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As a side note, I don't know if you've paid any attention to some or many of the issues many of the later model diesel coach owners are having with DEF and DPF systems and any other smog components of later engines but, it sure is nice to have basically a non-smog component engine like yours and mine. A buddy of mine and his wife were camping with us in Borreggo lately and he got a notice of "Bad or low DEF" on his dash about an hour before we arrived at Borreggo.

He did some research while there and determined his DEF sensor/header was bad and it needed to be replaced IMMEDIATELY or his engine would go into *Derate* within a given amount of time. Well, long story short, he dared not drive anywhere, got the campground to agree for him to leave his coach in its spot until the part and the mobile repair guy could get to it, about a week later. He got it all fixed, re-set the code and low and behold, it happened again about an hour from Borreggo.

His coach DID go into derate and at times, he was lucky to achieve 25 mph on some of the 200 mile trip back home to Havasu. Man that new smog crap is a pain.
Scott
The real issue is the manufacturers of the sensors and related electronics do not build equipment fit for the purpose.
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Old 01-15-2025, 12:22 PM   #9
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The real issue is the manufacturers of the sensors and related electronics do not build equipment fit for the purpose.
A few years back at a rally I saw a Freightliner bare chassis. Next to and wrapped around the engine, it looked like a chemical processing plant. With all the stainless steel lines and valves and sensors, gauges and tanks ...what could possibly go wrong!?!.

I managed an engineering dept for an instrumentation company with products for the chemical process industry and all the big US engine design and manufacturing companies. The processing plants and refineries always had redundancy built in because the stuff always fails in a hundred different ways. Down time was millions of dollars lost per hour. I doubt there is any redundancy in the consumer market. Good components that are over designed with a great deal of margin are very expensive.

So how much do you want to spend?
And how long do you want to go before the first breakdown?

Just my 2 cents,
Bill
PS, just read that California just pulled the plug on the CARB diesel engine mandates that would essentially stop all 2025 DP sales in CA and several other states.
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Old 01-16-2025, 11:41 AM   #10
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Scott. What is your friends rig? Winnebago? Even so, he might gain further insight by reading my saga of "Low Def".

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/def...es-593581.html
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Old 01-16-2025, 01:27 PM   #11
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My coach is old enough to lecture your coaches about their drinking.
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Old 01-16-2025, 02:04 PM   #12
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My coach is old enough to lecture your coaches about their drinking.
that's funny

From the above post it is clear they do build them like they used to. I now has 212k miles. then I notice I was I was on a Winnebago forum so maybe they do not build them like HR.

As a matter of disclosure I do have stock in Winnebago because I think they build good RVs.

My sail boat is old enough run for POTUS. I belong to a drinking club with a boating problem.
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Old 01-17-2025, 10:48 PM   #13
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Scott. What is your friends rig? Winnebago? Even so, he might gain further insight by reading my saga of "Low Def".

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/def...es-593581.html
His coach is a 2014 American Dream. If I'm not mistaken, he's running a 460HP Cummins. I can't recall if it's an ISL or ISX. But, one thing he's found out about by going to Youtube University is, there's a DEF DOSER that can, and quite often does go bad. When he red about that, he jumped under (well, actually eased his way down to a creeper) his coach, found that "Doser" and removed it. Low and behold, it was fully clogged up, just like what he saw in many of those videos. His new one just arrived today and I'll be helping install it tomorrow. Then, it's a matter getting the code reset on the dash.
Scott
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Old 01-18-2025, 01:02 PM   #14
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Scott, I too viewed YouTube and learned of doser clog. Being on-the-road (far from home), I chose not to unbolt the doser's 3 bolts ... fearing that they would break off. Sounds like your friend didn't experience bolt failure. My LOW DEF code cleared when replacing the NOx sensor (and it's electronic module). Although I could feel the derate condition (very poor acceleration), I never experienced the engine going into LIMP mode. Whew.
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