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Old 06-09-2006, 05:01 AM   #1
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We only have only stayed in one park in a year of camping in the U.S. where we had serious voltage sags - certainly not enough of a problem to warrant the cost and hassle of carrying around a heavy autoformer.

After camping in Alberta, British Columbia, and the Yukon over the last week on our way to Alaska I am now sorry I didn't purchase one to carry.

We have only been in ONE campground (Calgary) where we had good power, all the rest our voltage would vary up and down from 108 to 120 volts. One campground was so bad we ran everything on propane to reduce our electrical load and selected the 20 amp position on the EMS.

Parks with 50 amp power are a very rare thing indeed (haven't had one yet!) It is apparently a big deal to have 30 amp power because the campgrounds are proud to advertise 30 amp power. We thought for a while at one campground we were only going to have 15 amp electrical service but a space opened up with 30 amp power .. Not sure how 15 amp service works out for the coach but I'm glad I didn't have to find out.

Maybe the parks in Alaska are better power-wise; we'll find out tonight in Tok, Alaska.

I have decided a 30 amp autoformer would be very adequate (and less expensive) for my needs since I doubt that if you had 50 amp power available there would be problems.

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Old 06-09-2006, 05:01 AM   #2
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We only have only stayed in one park in a year of camping in the U.S. where we had serious voltage sags - certainly not enough of a problem to warrant the cost and hassle of carrying around a heavy autoformer.

After camping in Alberta, British Columbia, and the Yukon over the last week on our way to Alaska I am now sorry I didn't purchase one to carry.

We have only been in ONE campground (Calgary) where we had good power, all the rest our voltage would vary up and down from 108 to 120 volts. One campground was so bad we ran everything on propane to reduce our electrical load and selected the 20 amp position on the EMS.

Parks with 50 amp power are a very rare thing indeed (haven't had one yet!) It is apparently a big deal to have 30 amp power because the campgrounds are proud to advertise 30 amp power. We thought for a while at one campground we were only going to have 15 amp electrical service but a space opened up with 30 amp power .. Not sure how 15 amp service works out for the coach but I'm glad I didn't have to find out.

Maybe the parks in Alaska are better power-wise; we'll find out tonight in Tok, Alaska.

I have decided a 30 amp autoformer would be very adequate (and less expensive) for my needs since I doubt that if you had 50 amp power available there would be problems.

We continue to learn!
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Old 06-09-2006, 08:27 AM   #3
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John, thanks a bunch for taking the time to share the experiences of your travels....

With my most recent "microwave frying" experience, I learned a valuable lesson of never to hook up without a surge protector.Since I've already arranged for a hard wired version in the new coach,I am now thinking of going the extra mile and doing the 30A autoformer....Lots of space under the new one and I think it'll fit in the next adjacent compartment....

You guys have fun and be safe...
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Old 06-09-2006, 11:16 AM   #4
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John, we have had our 50 Amp Autoformer for a couple of years now. Because of our schedule most of our camping is in our home state of Florida. We like to stay in nice campgrounds so you would think power would not be an issue, but from my experience I would say 20% of campgrounds we have stayed, the Autoformer has 'boosted' the voltgage (on 50 Amp). This could be due to the the heavy electrical demands of the campground due to the FLorida climate. Yes the 30 Amp is less expensive and smaller, but for the little extra money, I sure would go with the 50 Amp (you also get higher surge protection). I bought the kit that allows the unit to be installed inside the compartment (out of site, out of mind). Good luck with whatever you choose, they are worth the money, especially with the electronics you have on board.
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Old 06-09-2006, 11:23 AM   #5
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Rebel the ESSEX must have 50amp service line wouldn't you need the 50amp autoformer to be safe.

John say Hi to the people in the A.C.S. telephone building I was there in 1957.
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Old 06-09-2006, 12:12 PM   #6
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I understand your concern about power, however, anything above 103 volts is considered safe for the coach. The only time one needs more amps than the 30 is if you choose to have the Micro and the air on at the same time and /or are running your refrigerator and water heater on electric (and maybe make coffee).

Good Luck on youor travels.
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Old 06-09-2006, 01:54 PM   #7
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Whoo-hoo we have 50 amp power at Tok RV Village

I think brief periods of voltages in the low 100s would be fine for anything on a coach but I don't agree with the conclusion that anything above 103 volts is okay as a flat statement. Going into this again - any resistive load doesn't care one bit about how much voltage it gets, i.e., hair dryer. If it has 80 volts that's fine, it just won't produce the heat it would at 120 volts. Inductive loads (motors) do care about their voltage; low voltage on an inductive (brushless) motor for a length of time (duration being ??) will cause premature failure.

Bob's Essex might have 100 amp service - I have seen advertising for parks touting their 100 amp hookups.

I still think that power sags would be more of a problem on parks only offering 30 amp hookups but I have no empirical evidence to the contrary. With 50 amp service I have 50 amps (supposedly) available on TWO different 110V legs to the coach. In reality that is 2X50 amps for a total of 100 amps available to the coach. (50 amp service to the coach is two legs of 110V @ 50 amp- it is NOT 220 V @ 50 amp)
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Old 06-09-2006, 02:37 PM   #8
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by "007":
Rebel the ESSEX must have 50amp service line wouldn't you need the 50amp autoformer to be safe.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Roger....I guess that does make perfect sense.....50A it will be.
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Old 06-09-2006, 02:54 PM   #9
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Some more good reading....

Surge/Autoformer topic here in April

Cliff Zimmerman comments the Hughes Autoformer is NOT to be installed inside a compartment...

Hughes Autoformer @ PPL mentions ventilated compartment in installation instructions.
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Old 06-09-2006, 03:14 PM   #10
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OK gang, cut to the chase for me. What is the best brand of surge protector to use for a 50amp coach? Since (apparently) the 30 amp is cheaper will it suffice in hot weather when we need both compressors running? I figure this would be something that might have a tendency to wander off from your site unless it was secured in some manner. Thoughts on that and how to do it?
You guys are scaring me talking about frying equipment etc.

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Old 06-09-2006, 03:24 PM   #11
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50A Progressive Industries portable unit with hasp ring (for lock) from rvupgrades an iRV2 sponsor...
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Old 06-10-2006, 04:24 AM   #12
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In my opinion the value of an Autoformer is far over rated. If you can get 104-106 volts you are OK, including running the a/c, and boosting it by 10% is nice but not really necessary. In the 95-103 volt range the 10% boost is a good thing, but in the rare instance you encounter that, turning off the a/c is an ok solution for us. Everything else can still run without damage. Switch a few things to LPG to help conserve power and keep on enjoying life.
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Old 06-10-2006, 05:36 AM   #13
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Gary, do you at use a surge protector of any kind?
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Old 06-10-2006, 05:50 AM   #14
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John_Canfield:
I still think that power sags would be more of a problem on parks only offering 30 amp hookups but I have no empirical evidence to the contrary. With 50 amp service I have 50 amps (supposedly) available on TWO different 110V legs to the coach. In reality that is 2X50 amps for a total of 100 amps available to the coach. (50 amp service to the coach is two legs of 110V @ 50 amp- it is NOT 220 V @ 50 amp) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In reality it is 220 V @ 50 amp. Just because you do not tap both buses does not mean that the ability to do so does not exist. The power that comes to your MH is the same as you used in your house. Single phase 120/240 electric. If you wanted to install a 30 amp 240 volt electric dryer in your MH, you could. All you need it the double throw breaker and the proper wiring, and it will work, as long as you are plugged into 50 amp power. You could do the wiring and install a 240 volt welder just as easily.

If you measure across the hot legs at the pedestal you will get 240 volts. Pull the cover to your ATS and measure across the hots, and it will measure 240 volts. Pull the cover off the breaker panel and measure across the hots, and it will measure 240 volts, as long as you are plugged into shore power. Fire up the generator and you will get zero doing the same tests at the ATS and breaker panel.

It's what it is.
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Old 06-10-2006, 05:51 AM   #15
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bob Hatch:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John_Canfield:
I still think that power sags would be more of a problem on parks only offering 30 amp hookups but I have no empirical evidence to the contrary. With 50 amp service I have 50 amps (supposedly) available on TWO different 110V legs to the coach. In reality that is 2X50 amps for a total of 100 amps available to the coach. (50 amp service to the coach is two legs of 110V @ 50 amp- it is NOT 220 V @ 50 amp) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In reality it is 220 V @ 50 amp. Just because you do not tap both buses does not mean that the ability to do so does not exist. The power that comes to your MH is the same as you used in your house. Single phase 120/240 electric. If you wanted to install a 30 amp 240 volt electric dryer in your MH, you could. All you need is the double throw breaker and the proper wiring, and it will work, as long as you are plugged into 50 amp power. You could do the wiring and install a 240 volt welder just as easily.

If you measure across the hot legs at the pedestal you will get 240 volts. Pull the cover to your ATS and measure across the hots, and it will measure 240 volts. Pull the cover off the breaker panel and measure across the hots, and it will measure 240 volts, as long as you are plugged into shore power. Fire up the generator and you will get zero doing the same tests at the ATS and breaker panel.

It's what it is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Old 06-10-2006, 06:00 AM   #16
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by doc:
OK gang, cut to the chase for me. What is the best brand of surge protector to use for a 50amp coach? Since (apparently) the 30 amp is cheaper will it suffice in hot weather when we need both compressors running? I figure this would be something that might have a tendency to wander off from your site unless it was secured in some manner. Thoughts on that and how to do it?
You guys are scaring me talking about frying equipment etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Doc - I have a hard-wired 50 amp Surge Guard - the installation is documented on our RV Mods pages of janeandjohn.org.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In my opinion the value of an Autoformer is far over rated. If you can get 104-106 volts you are OK, including running the a/c, and boosting it by 10% is nice but not really necessary. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I completely disagree - I think low voltage is fine for limited duration but NOT on a long-term basis

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In reality it is 220 V @ 50 amp. Just because you do not tap both buses does not mean that the ability to do so does not exist. The power that comes to your MH is the same as you used in your house. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually it is 2x 125V - inside the coach you have two branches of 125V and NOT 250 volts - maybe we are splitting hairs here. See this wiring link A 50 to 30 amp adapter simply feeds 125 volts to both hot sides of the 50 amp input.
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Old 06-10-2006, 06:13 AM   #17
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John, the Hughes Autoformer appears to be both a surge protector AND an Autoformer....

Would I then benefit by having both the surge protector and the Autoformer,or will just the Autoformer do the trick?
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Old 06-10-2006, 06:31 AM   #18
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Bob - your best protection against surges would be the surge guard - they give their surge ratings expressed in Joules (as I recall) and it was higher rated than the Hughes product. It has been a long time since I looked over the specs of both, so I don't remember the magnitude of difference.

I like having my Surge Guard always there keeping an eye on the incoming voltage and always ready to clamp any transients. The low voltage problem, i.e., the autoformer solution, addresses an issue that is usually more of an annoyance than a critical 'out of the blue' electrical crisis. And like somebody else posted, it is a problem that you can self-manage to a great extent.

Like I said in my first post, low voltage was never enough of a problem for me in the 48 states to even bother to carry one - period. I would NOT be without the Surge Guard!
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Old 06-10-2006, 07:05 AM   #19
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Thanks John....that's as matter of fact as I could ask for.
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Old 06-10-2006, 10:14 AM   #20
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John_Canfield:
Actually it is 2x 125V - inside the coach you have two branches of 125V and NOT 250 volts - maybe we are splitting hairs here. See this wiring link A 50 to 30 amp adapter simply feeds 125 volts to both hot sides of the 50 amp input. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will say this again. It is the same as inside your house. Inside your house you have two legs, of 120 volts each, both out of phase with neutral, or what is in reality, split phase. When you wire an appliance, like a range, or an oven, you tap each leg, and then utilize 120 volts from each leg, adding up to 240 volts. Your house did not have 240 volt power. It had the same thing that your RV has. If you had a house that had a gas stove, gas oven, gas dryer, and gas water heater, and everything else in the house was 120 volt, that did not mean that you did not have the ability to utilize 240 volts if you wanted it.

A 30 to 50 amp adapter does what describe.

http://www.bobhatch.com/electricStuf...pter/index.htm

A 50 to 30 amp adapter utilizes only one leg of a 50 amp service, to feed a 30 amp rig.

Your MH is set up to utilize 120/240 50 amp electric. Read the sticker on the bay door where the cord lives.

http://www.bobhatch.com/electricStuff/30to50amp.htm
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