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Old 02-14-2021, 06:49 PM   #1
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Will the Main engine charge the house batteries?

I have an 08 Itasca meridian 39z dp and it doesn't appear that the house batteries are charged by the main engine only by the generator. Does anyone know for sure?

Thanks for any replies.
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Old 02-14-2021, 07:02 PM   #2
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The first wiring diagram in this link shows a solenoid for that purpose, I believe. It is shown right next to the latching solenoid (actuated by the salesman sw) just like my class C. Don't know about its physical location on a DP, but others will.

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ire_163687.pdf

Good luck with your troubleshooting. Stay safe.
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Old 02-14-2021, 07:04 PM   #3
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Yes, if everything is operating properly once your chassis batteries are fully charged the alternater charge is forwarded onto the house batteries. I will let others go through the technical details if they wish. It works that way on our 2005 journey 36g
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Old 02-15-2021, 07:58 AM   #4
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kongmen, your coach drawing shows you have Trik-L-Start which will charge your coach batteries while driving.
Mega TRIK-L-START Starting Battery Charger/Maintainer
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Old 02-15-2021, 09:01 AM   #5
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kongmen, your coach drawing shows you have Trik-L-Start which will charge your coach batteries while driving.
Mega TRIK-L-START Starting Battery Charger/Maintainer
The Trik L Start contradicts what you said.

A Trik L Start charges the starting battery, while on shore power.

It does not charge the coach battery while driving. That's the job of the isolation solenoid.
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Old 02-15-2021, 09:05 AM   #6
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To the OP,

Push the boost switch on and off while listening to the isolation solenoid clunking.

That's what charges your house battery while driving. Althouge it clunks, its not making contact internally.
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Old 02-15-2021, 11:48 AM   #7
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My bad miss read to OP's post, yes the isolation relay closes when the engine is running to charge the coach batteries. The isolation relay contacts can get corroded and pitted with age and fail to pass current to the coach batteries.
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Old 02-15-2021, 01:22 PM   #8
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The isolation solenoid is just a high current on/off relay.

In my '85 Fleetwood the relay was an intermittent duty no-name unit. When I got the MH the boost button / relay didn't work at all... pushing the button just exercised my thumb.

I traced my button wiring and the end result was that both the button wiring and the isolation relay were bad. Some of these units have the two large connections on the side and one small connection on the front, some have two small ones on the front. The ones that have two bring both coil connections out, the ones that have one use the housing as one of the coil connections. My original device had one screw, and the unit was mounted on wood, with a ground wire under one mounting screw. That was one problem, the solid core ground wire had broken from fatigue right at the mounting screw. The other problem was internal, the unit would go "thunk" but the contacts would not close.... I suspect it was original from 1985.

I replaced the isolation relay with a Cole Hersee brand 24143BX 12V 200A Continuous Duty Solenoid (the RV shop that I use says that they seem to be the best). The 24143 is a continuous duty unit that is available from Amazon for $55:

https: // www.amazon.com/Cole-Hersee-24213-Continuous-Solenoid/dp/B005K2429I/ref=pd_lpo_263_t_0/134-7724914-6956863

I've also found it at at O'Reillys auto parts chain... www.oreillyauto.com
and some of the stores will deliver...

Careful - there are identically looking units that have much lower current ratings, as low as 35 amps. Some are intermittent duty - designed as a boost start only. My coach uses the one unit as both the boost start button and as the isolation relay. 200 amps continuous duty for $55? There was no sense in going cheap or intermittent duty.

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Old 02-15-2021, 02:05 PM   #9
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In a gas engine RV, with 1 or 2 house batteries, a simple key actavated " on and off " contactor ( solenoid ) will work fine for charging the house batteries along with the chassis( start ) batteries.

Once you get into RVs with more then 2, standard size, 12 volt batteries The current needed to charge them from a discharged state with an engine mounted alternator can overload and overheat them. That's the same issue with todays lithium batteries.

A simple " on and off " contactor was no longer the answer and they developed voltage sensing controls for them. ( IRD, BIRD, BIM, and other custom built controls. )

Beside not connecting them immediately upon starting the engine, allowing the chassis battery time to recover, they disconnect them is the current flowing drops the alternator output too low.

A built in timer delays them from connecting again, giving the alternator time to cool and bring up the chassis battery voltage, before closing the solenoid again. This cycle will continue until the stress is off the alternator and then all batteries charge together.

Thru the mid 2000s, this control was only for the chassis to house charging. In the latter 2000s, they started using bi-directional controls, allowing the house battery to support chassis charging.

Before, and in the early 2000s, solid state isolators split the alternator output to chassis and house batteries. The chassis battery controlled the alternator output so it left the house batteries partially charged.
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Old 02-15-2021, 08:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
In a gas engine RV, with 1 or 2 house batteries, a simple key actavated " on and off " contactor ( solenoid ) will work fine for charging the house batteries along with the chassis( start ) batteries.

Once you get into RVs with more then 2, standard size, 12 volt batteries The current needed to charge them from a discharged state with an engine mounted alternator can overload and overheat them. That's the same issue with todays lithium batteries.

A simple " on and off " contactor was no longer the answer and they developed voltage sensing controls for them. ( IRD, BIRD, BIM, and other custom built controls. )

Beside not connecting them immediately upon starting the engine, allowing the chassis battery time to recover, they disconnect them is the current flowing drops the alternator output too low.

A built in timer delays them from connecting again, giving the alternator time to cool and bring up the chassis battery voltage, before closing the solenoid again. This cycle will continue until the stress is off the alternator and then all batteries charge together.

Thru the mid 2000s, this control was only for the chassis to house charging. In the latter 2000s, they started using bi-directional controls, allowing the house battery to support chassis charging.

Before, and in the early 2000s, solid state isolators split the alternator output to chassis and house batteries. The chassis battery controlled the alternator output so it left the house batteries partially charged.
Great info. Now I "think" I know why I cannot find a BIRD under the hood of my (2006) E450 ...... there probably isn't one. The charging system works well; I just wanted to know where the BIRD was if I ever needed to troubleshoot the system. (I should probably call WBGO and verify all this, I reckon.)

Thanks for posting.
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Old 02-16-2021, 10:22 AM   #11
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Yes, if everything is operating properly once your chassis batteries are fully charged the alternater charge is forwarded onto the house batteries. I will let others go through the technical details if they wish. It works that way on our 2005 journey 36g
neub,
I think your description of the way your coaches charging system works, with your engine running, is a tad bit off. Unless there's been some human intervention in the wiring or components of your particular coach, that large *dual duty* solenoid, located inside the access panel in the very front of your coach, doesn't have any ability "Think". It has no idea, nor does any other component in the ENGINE charging side of things, when and/and/or/if, your coach batteries are fully charged, AND THEN it decides to send some charging effort to the house batteries.

When you start that engine, via an ignition hot wire, that solenoid, AUTOMATICALLY ENGAGES. When that happens, your alternator is now sending 12V and amperage, to BOTH SETS OF BATTERIES, no matter what state the chassis batteries are in. If you have something in your coach, that dictates just when, that solenoid is to close, which would send the charge to the house batteries, I'd sure like to learn about it.

Our coach is very, very closely designed to yours. It's an '04 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the CAT C-7 330HP. The primary difference between the two coaches is, my house battery disconnect solenoid, and, that dual duty large solenoid I've been talking about, are located in the rear shore power compartment, inside a hidden section while yours, as stated, are located inside an access panel that you see when you lift or lower your hood, in the front of your coach.
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Old 02-16-2021, 11:19 AM   #12
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neub,
I think your description of the way your coaches charging system works, with your engine running, is a tad bit off. Unless there's been some human intervention in the wiring or components of your particular coach, that large *dual duty* solenoid, located inside the access panel in the very front of your coach, doesn't have any ability "Think". It has no idea, nor does any other component in the ENGINE charging side of things, when and/and/or/if, your coach batteries are fully charged, AND THEN it decides to send some charging effort to the house batteries.

When you start that engine, via an ignition hot wire, that solenoid, AUTOMATICALLY ENGAGES. When that happens, your alternator is now sending 12V and amperage, to BOTH SETS OF BATTERIES, no matter what state the chassis batteries are in. If you have something in your coach, that dictates just when, that solenoid is to close, which would send the charge to the house batteries, I'd sure like to learn about it.

Our coach is very, very closely designed to yours. It's an '04 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the CAT C-7 330HP. The primary difference between the two coaches is, my house battery disconnect solenoid, and, that dual duty large solenoid I've been talking about, are located in the rear shore power compartment, inside a hidden section while yours, as stated, are located inside an access panel that you see when you lift or lower your hood, in the front of your coach.
Scott
Its called an IRD or BIRD and a few other names. Its a logic control for yhe big solenoid.

It will not connect the chassis battery to the house battery until the chassis battery reaches 13.4 volts.
That may happen quickly if the chassis battery was fully charged before the startup or take some time if they were low.
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Old 02-16-2021, 12:29 PM   #13
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Wow! That was a lot of info and appreciated.

I will push the boost button to see if i hear a clunk. Other than that is there something to look for that will tell me if the alternator is changing the house batteries?

I pushed the boost button (without the engine running?)
And heard no clunk sound of any kind from the driver's area.

Thanks.
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Old 02-16-2021, 12:39 PM   #14
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Measure the house battery voltage. It should equal the chassis battery, if the engine is running and the solenoid is working.

The solenoid may be near the batteries.
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