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Old 07-29-2012, 10:13 AM   #81
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EDALLSAILS - We have a replacement heat pump shipping from Coleman/RVP. It's our understanding they are still manufacturing that unit. We sure hope so!
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:00 AM   #82
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I believe you will find that the last model year that WBGO used basement air in their coaches was 2010. I believe ALL of the 2011 model year coaches went to roof air "exclusively".
Ed
You are correct......2010 was the last year with basement air,and I might add our 35P adventurer with 40,000btu basement air is terrific.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:06 AM   #83
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You are correct......2010 was the last year with basement air,and I might add our 35P adventurer with 40,000btu basement air is terrific.
Your basement air is 27,000 BTU, which was raised from 24,000 BTU in 2008.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:43 AM   #84
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Your basement air is 27,000 BTU, which was raised from 24,000 BTU in 2008.

If i'm not mistaken, I read......Adventurer 2010 35P (as stated)...in brochure and operators manual saids: 40,000BTU two-speed, low profile ( 35P, 35Z, 37F, 38N )TrueAir residental central air conditioning w/heat pump.
To add to that, both pumps can run on 30 amp service.
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:15 AM   #85
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Your basement air is 27,000 BTU, which was raised from 24,000 BTU in 2008.
Perhaps WBGO uses different models for different floor plans ???
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Old 07-30-2012, 08:34 AM   #86
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Perhaps WBGO uses different models for different floor plans ???
From the brochure on MY 2010 Itasca Suncruiser:
""TrueAir
® residential central air conditioning w/heat pump
35,000 BTU low-profile furnace
(32H)

40,000 BTU two-speed, low-profile furnace (35P & 37F)""

HOWEVER, I think the 40,000 BTU rating is for the propane FURNACE. I cannot find any reference to the rated size of the basement AC (cooling or heat pump) compressors.

Ed
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:05 PM   #87
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Yes, 40,000 is the capacity of his furnace. 27,500 is the RVP cooling capacity of the above posters 35P basement air. He can call RVP to check. In no way is his basement air conditioner a 40,000 btu unit.

24,000 is the capacity of my RVP unit.....just plain not enough capacity to cool this thing properly. Winnebago upped the capacity a couple years later to help.
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Old 08-20-2012, 07:28 PM   #88
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basement air conditioner

Looking for a basement air conditioner for a 2000 ,32v winnebago.
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Old 08-20-2012, 11:59 PM   #89
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You know, after having retired from 30 years of commercial and residential HVAC- I for one would consider roof air a real retrograde decision. I do admit the MH manufacturer's & their suppliers should do a better job of making the basement HVAC more serviceable. Fact is, I don't know of any roof mounted A/C that is serviceable by design. If it loses refrigerant they are considered throw away-due to high cost of paying qualified techs to install service ports and to comply with mandated handling of refrigerant etc.
Fact is-any qualified residential or commercial a/c tech should be able to service the basement air- it is that similar to residential. One week point does seem to be the thermostat-but there are quite a number of write ups on changing them out for good reliable digital stats.
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:06 AM   #90
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Hey guys.

I'm Graham, new here. I do AC work on RV's, cars and of course the usual AC systems like the Basement air systems.

I wanted to thank everyone for posting on them, gave me a bit of insight on the way in

The basement air system I just repaired was on a '94 Vectra.

Worst AC system design ever.

The crimps and connectors were fairly loose almost everywhere, and that was easy enough after removal to repair, but the base design is doomed to failure and in that respect I'd recommend a basic roof air design for replacement.

The dual compressor system 'would' be fine except it's a tandem system with no oil control. That is, both compressors are working with the same system, same gas, etc.

Oil moving through an AC system will eventually fine it's way more so into one or the other compressor.

That means that one compressor will, eventually, burn out from a lack of oil. They should have split the evaporator and condenser into 2 sections and run them as 2 independent systems.

I feel that this is a big part of the compressor failure I'm seeing in this design.

Second, the size is pretty crazy.

Anything larger than 18000btu is overkill in this size of RV. Using slightly smaller compressors would make little difference to the actual cooling performance (likely just add to the time it takes to cool to setpoint) and would make it work on a more standard 110v service.

This is running close to 30amp startup. The 20amp breaker I attached to for testing at the house just barely kept it going, and would blow the house breaker after a few minutes running.

Third, the AC relies on the RV 12v inverter to run the relays. If there's any issue with the 12v power, like a bad water pump, or anything else pulling hard on the 12v line, the AC system will kick out regularly, blower fan intermittent operation, etc.

All in all, it's a piss-poor design that's made to fail, with terrible access.

I would advise anyone with more 'pronounced' power issues on the 110v side (older compressors can pull a bit more amperage and force a voltage reduction, messing with the 110v source, as well as causing 12v fluctuations) to replace the 2 compressors with smaller versions.

Cheapest way to do that would be to get a pair of 9-10000btu AC units and salvage the compressors (and gas) and downgrade. Generally that size of compressor will pull 3-7amps. Makes it work on a standard power source, and has much less effect on the 12v system. The compressors in there can pull 7-10amps normal operation, and more on startup.

Anyways, just wanted to say thanks for the posts, old or not it helped to get an idea of what I was facing.

G
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Old 06-29-2013, 09:48 AM   #91
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We just purchased a 2013 Journey 40U. It has 3 13,000 Ac's on the roof.
From what I under stand it is because of the "DEF" not sure what year they
Changed.
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:39 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by poppopc View Post
We just purchased a 2013 Journey 40U. It has 3 13,000 Ac's on the roof.
From what I under stand it is because of the "DEF" not sure what year they
Changed.
WBGO Ind. stopped using the basement units across their entire line effective with the 2011 model year coaches. Some of their models had roof air long before then. Ed
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:45 PM   #93
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My 10 year old Basment Air works great. Never tried it above 100 degrees though, but expect it would be adequate. What I really like is, with both compressors running it only draws 21 amps, so i'm fine when there's only a 30 amp service, such as my home. Doug 2003 Journey DL 36GD
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Old 08-28-2013, 08:29 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray808 View Post
Hey guys.

I'm Graham, new here. I do AC work on RV's, cars and of course the usual AC systems like the Basement air systems.

I wanted to thank everyone for posting on them, gave me a bit of insight on the way in

The basement air system I just repaired was on a '94 Vectra.

Worst AC system design ever.

The crimps and connectors were fairly loose almost everywhere, and that was easy enough after removal to repair, but the base design is doomed to failure and in that respect I'd recommend a basic roof air design for replacement.

The dual compressor system 'would' be fine except it's a tandem system with no oil control. That is, both compressors are working with the same system, same gas, etc.

Oil moving through an AC system will eventually fine it's way more so into one or the other compressor.

That means that one compressor will, eventually, burn out from a lack of oil. They should have split the evaporator and condenser into 2 sections and run them as 2 independent systems.

I feel that this is a big part of the compressor failure I'm seeing in this design.

Second, the size is pretty crazy.

Anything larger than 18000btu is overkill in this size of RV. Using slightly smaller compressors would make little difference to the actual cooling performance (likely just add to the time it takes to cool to setpoint) and would make it work on a more standard 110v service.

This is running close to 30amp startup. The 20amp breaker I attached to for testing at the house just barely kept it going, and would blow the house breaker after a few minutes running.

Third, the AC relies on the RV 12v inverter to run the relays. If there's any issue with the 12v power, like a bad water pump, or anything else pulling hard on the 12v line, the AC system will kick out regularly, blower fan intermittent operation, etc.

All in all, it's a piss-poor design that's made to fail, with terrible access.

I would advise anyone with more 'pronounced' power issues on the 110v side (older compressors can pull a bit more amperage and force a voltage reduction, messing with the 110v source, as well as causing 12v fluctuations) to replace the 2 compressors with smaller versions.

Cheapest way to do that would be to get a pair of 9-10000btu AC units and salvage the compressors (and gas) and downgrade. Generally that size of compressor will pull 3-7amps. Makes it work on a standard power source, and has much less effect on the 12v system. The compressors in there can pull 7-10amps normal operation, and more on startup.

Anyways, just wanted to say thanks for the posts, old or not it helped to get an idea of what I was facing.

G
I have to disagree with your statement that "the base design is doomed to failure". Your experience seems to be limited to a 20 year old unit that was the earliest design. Later models use a seperate 20 amp breaker for each compressor. The startup amperage for each compressor is about 16 - 17 amps and lasts less than 10 seconds. The running amperage of each compressor is about 13 amps per breaker which is well within the normal standards for the wiring and breakers.

I don't understand why you feel "Oil moving through an AC system will eventually find it's way more so into one or the other compressor".

The oil is carried as a mist through the system with the refrigerant. As the refrigerant moves so does the oil. It may pool for a period of time when the system is shut down, but when the system is restarted the oil is once again picked up by the moving refrigerant and distributed throughout the system.

Using seperate condersors and evaporators also presents it's own set of complications when coupled with the heat punp function. It requires an additional set of switching valves, wiring and ducting in the limited space available.

Our last coach had the basement air and ran trouble free for over 12 years and over 100,000 miles. Our current coach has dual roof air conditioners that work well but are at least twice as noisy as the basement air. The roof air conditioners also add to the overall height of the motorhome and are vulnerable to low hanging obstacles.

Given the similar performance and added noise and height of the roof air conditioners I much prefered the basement air.
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Old 08-29-2013, 02:07 PM   #95
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After having several class a Mh with ducted roof air and two Winnebago with basement air I consider basement air and duel Payne windows to be a must have. It gives you a quiet quality feel of home. With the TV on I can't even hear it come on and there is no water running off the roof.
After full timing in Az off and on for 13 years the only complaint I have is the length of time it takes in the summer to cool down inside after arrival. They had the limitation of 115 at 30 amps to work with and did a great job of providing 24000btu of cooling. I do agree they should have been separate units inside to isolate one from the other in case of burnout.
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:44 PM   #96
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After having several class a Mh with ducted roof air and two Winnebago with basement air I consider basement air and duel Payne windows to be a must have. It gives you a quiet quality feel of home. With the TV on I can't even hear it come on and there is no water running off the roof.
After full timing in Az off and on for 13 years the only complaint I have is the length of time it takes in the summer to cool down inside after arrival. They had the limitation of 115 at 30 amps to work with and did a great job of providing 24000btu of cooling. I do agree they should have been separate units inside to isolate one from the other in case of burnout.
Happy trails
Since WBGO stopped using basement units beginning with the 2011 model year, I think you will be limited to only having older coaches. I'm not aware of ANY current model year coach using basement, unless its a bus conversion. The only way I will ever have another basement AC coach is if somebody GIVES it to me. I'm done. Ed
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