04 Dutch Star Ignition/battery problem

[roadstar99]

Thank you, Skip. Spent last two days waiting for Roadside service to try to Jumpstart the batteries and see if they will charge back up if driven. Won't leave the yard if not charging. We disconnected the batteries and since no one showed up from FMCA road service had to take a break. Too upset by the treatment of the service. I am on oxygen and have to sit in the car to keep battery charged. Waiting 4 hours and
8 hours for help that does not call or show has really disturbed me. It did not use to be this way. I was also rudely treated by the service and by the company called. Plan to take batteries to someone to check for dead cells and see if they will charge up. I was even treated rudely by Newmar and Spartan, almost yelling at me and suggesting that if I would get someone on the phone they would walk us through the system to check. I know they mean my husband but he knows nothing about the motorhome and he will tell you so.
Can't get mechanic
out to jump start much less talk on the phone with Spartan or Newmar and spend time tracing a problem. I spent 3 weeks tracing wires with service on HWH to find a problem. It was a plug inserted upside down in the control box after mechanic replaced it that caused a problem on the panel. After replacing everything electrical, it works now. Just has to be something mechanic has caused here. Started when alternator was replaced and the ignition switch. Before even the old batteries cranked.
Been traveling for 20 years and loved it until the last few years. Glad to be leaving..
Thanks, again

It is cheaper to buy batteries than pay out of pocket for a jump start.

[Skip426]

Ok , I'll give this another shot .
You mentioned a master disconnect in a previous post .
Does the control look like the photo below?
You say you've been waiting for a jump start .
Does that mean that the dash boost switch no longer works ; or are the coach batteries dead too ?
I've been scrounging around to try and locate Spartan chassis wiring diagrams for 2005 and have been unsuccessful . I have 2000/2002 and located some for 2007 , and looking through there are major changes so not sure if either is useful for 2005 .

There is a saying in the Monaco forums ; that the "motor homes are like snowflakes , no two are the same " and with all the options available year over year and Dutch Stars being built on two different chassis , I'm beginning to think the same could be said about Newmars.

The second and third photos are , the rear power distribution modules from a 2000/2 Dutch Star , in the compartment behind the passenger side dual wheels , and the power cord compartment on my 99 Dutch Star on Freightliner .

Would it be possible for you to post photos of the same two compartments on your coach so I can see ( hopefully ) where Newmar mounted the chassis battery disconnect solenoid .

If the picture of the battery disconnect control panel doesn't match the one in your coach , could you post a photo of that as well .

EDIT : The second and third photos posted on the wrong order , the photo with the yellow circle is from my 99 .

[jarwiebe]

Originally Posted by Skip426

Ok , I'll give this another shot .
You mentioned a master disconnect in a previous post .
Does the control look like the photo below?
You say you've been waiting for a jump start .
Does that mean that the dash boost switch no longer works ; or are the coach batteries dead too ?
I've been scrounging around to try and locate Spartan chassis wiring diagrams for 2005 and have been unsuccessful . I have 2000/2002 and located some for 2007 , and looking through there are major changes so not sure if either is useful for 2005 .

There is a saying in the Monaco forums ; that the "motor homes are like snowflakes , no two are the same " and with all the options available year over year and Dutch Stars being built on two different chassis , I'm beginning to think the same could be said about Newmars.

The second and third photos are , the rear power distribution modules from a 2000/2 Dutch Star , in the compartment behind the passenger side dual wheels , and the power cord compartment on my 99 Dutch Star on Freightliner .

Would it be possible for you to post photos of the same two compartments on your coach so I can see ( hopefully ) where Newmar mounted the chassis battery disconnect solenoid .

If the picture of the battery disconnect control panel doesn't match the one in your coach , could you post a photo of that as well .

EDIT : The second and third photos posted on the wrong order , the photo with the yellow circle is from my 99 .

Skip, I have a Spartan wiring diagram for my chassis, its a 2004. If this would help. I uploaded this PDF to the files section under the chassis category. Search for file name: Spartan Chassis Wiring 0155-GG7 2004.75 NEWMAR DUT

[roadstar99]

Thanks, Skip and jarwiebe, for your help. We haven't been able to get back to coach in storage because of a medical problem with my husband. He is doing okay now and we hope to get there to storage and coach to compare your photos. I have schematics either from Spartan or Newmar that I printed and it is in the coach. I can try to post as an attachment here when I can find it. I have schematic of ignition switch, 72 Chevy model,and still think it is some damage to wiring harness based on the twisting it endured abd ignition left hanging. The fuse to accessory was blown. We also have a non working step cover andvthd wire to motor is broken but we can't get to it to fix it. Just listing everything that might be causing it. The house batteries still had 12 .2 v but booster could not crank the batteries. Road Service wouldn't even come out so we are taking batteries to.be charged. Will let you know from there .

[roadstar99]

Found the wiring for 04 Dutch Star. Am trying to attach here.

[roadstar99]

Sorry. I forget each time how to attach to forum.

[Skip426]

Originally Posted by roadstar99

Sorry. I forget each time how to attach to forum.

The file is probably to large to post , due to site file size limits.
jarwiebe , has e mailed me a copy of his and a few pictures and I'll be looking over them tonight.

EDIT: I'll look at the additional items you listed , in post #18 and see if I can figure any of those out too.

[roadstar99]

Thanks. Yes, it is large.

[roadstar99]

Had new to be charged but they are dead and will not ccharge. Told alternator could have destroyed them. HD alternator rebuilt in February this year. Something destroyed alternator and batteries as we left to go home. Died on us. Before that had water pump replaced same month.
Have a call into Spartan to see if we can get a new alternator. How can alternator destroy new batteries when not running? 3 sets of Batteries. These new batteries cranked
Cranked coach once. Other than age or bad rebuild, why does alternator kill batteries?
Spartan does not want to talk to me again. Keeps telling me to get someone there to call him.

[Skip426]

I've been on with jarweibe getting wiring info and disconnect switch location info .

As I progressed through the wiring schematics and re-reading your posts the alternator was beginning to come into question .
I was going to ask about the timing of the alternator install to the beginning of the battery issues .

The alternator is connected to the batteries directly , no disconnect , no fuse or circuit breaker in the cable between the battery and the alternator .
An internal issue with the alternator can be the cause of the batteries being rapidly drawn down to dead , and that rapid continuous discharge will cause internal overheating in the batteries, damaging the plates , leading to the inability to be recharged .
If as we now suspect the alternator is bad , without a replacement in hand , the only way to run the coach safely would be to disconnect the cables from the alternator and tape them up with electrical tape , install batteries and check for draw .
The coach could be run this way ; alternator disconnected ; and driven to have the alternator replaced , with the gen set running to provide 12 volt power .
I'm off to an appointment and will post further details later today .

[roadstar99]

Thanks, Skip. Called Spartan and they have new alternator for $500+.
This did not begin with alternator but that was when it killed the batteries.
Being in storage, we went to storage every week to crank and check Coach.
We had road service out a few times in Oct to Dec for jump off. So the batteries were not holding charge very long. Major pain began in January as we were getting loaded to go to Mayport for month. We were having a serious cold spell for Georgia.
Air froze up entire Coach. Called Spartan and ordered leveling switch. Paid Mobile service $267 for coming out to check and he agreed it needed leveling switch. Ordered it for him and he never returned. Was there 15 minutes.

Another mobile mechanic for $310 to install the leveling switch. Still froze up.
Called Spartan and he said if nothing else wrong, probably the air pressure regulators under the dash.

Regulators came and husband screwed them in and air worked fine.

Check engine light came on as we cranked the Coach to leave. Called mobile mechanic. $350 to check engine and put antifreeze in overflow the next morning. Dropped to freezing at night. Light went off. Told to add more when we arrived in JAX.. which we did.

All was well. We thought. As we were putting everything up to leave, neighbor came out and noticed antifreeze pouring from rear of Coach. He checked it for us and it was the water pump. Replaced it for $310. Gave him the belts I had with us and he installed them for free.

Drove to Savannah, Lotts Island, our next destination, no problem. Of course these problems did not occur when hooked to shore power.

When we left after our 2 weeks, drove 6 miles and stopped at Cracker Barrel to eat breakfast.. Couldn't get parked so started back out and it died. No life at all. Called Road service for jump off. $125.

I got nervous because it was choking and told husband to go back to campground. We spit and sputtered but got on base and to the camp and 100 feet from campsite and it croaked.

Could not find a mechanic in Savannah to come out from anywhere. I called our neighbor in Mayport and paid him $1000 to come to Savannah to check it for us. He said he worked for Freightliner. There was no voltage on dash and every warning light that could came on.

He was a doll to come to us and said it was the alternator. Took it to be rebuilt because no one had one new in stock. He had a computer tester and said we needed new cranking batteries. He bought 2 Interstate ones then returned them because he said they were wrong ones. Then he took the alternator back because something was wrong. He checked everything he knew how. I saw him checking the ignition switch and was twisting it everyway until it was loose and then he was unable to tighten it back up. It was just hanging on. Before he left, I asked if he was going to fix the ignition switch. Said he was but he did not.

We were able to spend 2 nights at camp to recover after staying 3 nights in motel before we left. Got home fine.

Checked on Coach once a week. Husband took off ignition switch to straighten it out and get it tight against the dash but left a part out and could not get the key lock back out. Called service and he sent someone out. He got the lock out and reinstalled it for us upside down. No change! He worked for my diesel mechanic here.

Kept getting jump offs from him till we left in May for Seabee Base in MS. Drove straight through for fear something else would happen. Stayed 30 days. Left no problem. Drove home and when we checked a week later would not crank even with booster, which we had been using. Bought 3 new house batteries. Joe took off ignition again and turned it right side up.

It would crank with booster, and just too tired to do anything else.
Cranking battery dead. WOuld not even light up dash when key turned to on but would crank when booster button pushed.

Used road service a lot as we had determined by then we were too old to deal with these problems. Tried to get service but not available here for 3 months at shop. Mobile mechanics would not work on chassis or motorhomes. RVmechanics would not work on chassisl

We traded the batteries into Interstate again. After installing, the ignition turned on the dash and cranked the engine one time. A week later, back to the same. Voltage 6.9 at Master Switch and at batteries. House batteries good at 12.6.

TOok batteries to be charged and they were dead and we were told it was probably the alternator.

That is where we stand. Would like to get it fixed. It is a great Coach. First time in 5 years we've spent any money on repair. Just bought 4 new Michelins. Bought 2 front Michelins 5 years ago. Bought 2 new TVs, antenna,
All new batteries, ignition switch, water pump, and rebuilt alternator all this year.

Would you come to see us, Skip for $1000?

[Skip426]

Honestly, if you were on the west coast,I’d stop by for way less than that .
I’ll be traveling to my snowbird site during the last week of October down the I-5 and a short detour would not be a problem.
Right now It’s Canadian Thanks Giving and I’m traveling to be with friends for two days . More when I get better internet.

[roadstar99]

We ate sick from trying to get Coach cranking problem fixed. We are down there every week, hire mobile mechanics, and we are no closer to being able to crank regularly than before. Last Certified big truck guy charged us $700 to tell us we had a dead battery. Yeah! Know that. Long story short, road service through FMCA could not get anyone out to jump start for months of trying to the point of insulting us and making fun of us and our problem. That's a whole new problem. Disputed $700 and returned. Much more spent. 2 more new batteries. Road Service last convo was "We don't have anyone in our system who will come out to you. But we have a guy who will come out to jump batteries for $535 in 45 minutes but you have to pay and submit for reimbursement and you will be refunded what your account allows." We wound up taking all 5 batteries home and charged them all up and reinstalled them. Turn on ignition and dash light comes on and goes off as soon as you turn to ignition. Batteries are on full charge 12.7. This time we tried the generator and got it cranked thinking it would boost the crank batteries. Put a load on the generator and it worked fine. Accessory works fine on ignition.
But now a new twist. We checked for parasite drain and it registered 4 amp with ground disconnected and generator off and inverter off. Also we plugged my portable oxygen into cigar lighter and the adapter only went in part way and killed power to generator. Cranked generator again and tried again, same thing.
Spartan is tired of me calling them and referred me to a dealer 75 or 200 miles away. We can't crank the motorhome to get there if they would. Don't think a tow truck can get us out of storage lot without flatbed and doubt that.
I have a mechanic who is going to meet us to check the short to ground (?) and look for starter and solenoid and BYRD. Think I will have to locate BYRD myself. Going back to read reply by someone on here to find it. Need a schematic of wiring for 04 ignition. I found one but for 07. The old ignition connectors are not the same as one in there now of 07 Chevy.
Will be canceling road service and FMCA and hopefully be able to sell right away and drop insurance. So tired. We HAVE had a wonderful time 12 years traveling until last year. Everyone so helpful and this is a lifesaver site. Thank you all for your help.
Any new insights of what we can do, replace, check or undo will be appreciated.