2014 400ISL and 450 ISL

[Dutch Star Don]

Our local dealer has four 2014 Ventanna's and two 2014 Dutch Stars in stock which is a lot of DP's for him to typically carry and he has them reasonably priced. He ordered the Ventanna's with a lot of extras including flat frame windows, washer dryer, power utility reels etc. The difference between his Dutch Star and Ventanna models boils down to the Dutch Star has Hydronic heating and a side radiator.

Here's my question.....has anyone investigated (I don't have engine numbers to call Cummins) if the 400 in the Ventanna can be uprated to 450 HP. If it can (I know you typically pay Cummins a fee for this) I may be willing to forgo the side radiator and the hydronic heating is not a big loss to me. Both engines have an engine brake.

I would love a side radiator, but have lived with a rear radiator for 9 years and no issues. I believe the rear radiator if bumped to 450 HP will give me more overall HP because I'm not driving a side radiator hydraulic pump.

Not trying to offend anyone and correct me if I'm wrong about the major differences that I have identified between the Ventanna and DS.

[zman62]

I am pretty sure the torque on both is exactly the same, 1250lb ft. Probably just a flash would be my guess. Torque is what gets you up the hill though

[Dutch Star Don]

I think they are rated 50 pounds of torque different. It's not a huge issue, but these two coaches are identical, but the Ventanna has an exterior color scheme I REALLY like. It's the only color scheme with a light colored roof. All the others are black and I'm tired of heat issues and future paint issues as I did with my Diplomat.

My current ISL is chipped another 50 HP and that 50 HP makes a difference.

[Lancer63]

Don, I googled your question and found a variety of answers. Without a doubt I would ask Cummins the question. If they say yes and you still have a valid warranty then of course cost would be the next issue. Keep in mind though both the 450 and 400 are rated at 1250 ft/lbs of torque. I have a 2014 4037 Ventana. I struggled a bit with the Ventana or DS decision. Price point between the two made the decision for me in the end. Engine size never really entered the equation. I came from an 05 Dynasty with the 400 and I knew what to expect. I tow a 2010 Ford Edge which is around 4000 lbs. So the real deal for me, since you mentioned it is the Oasis hydronic system. Just my opinion but you might want to rethink that. It's a great unit. Either the DS or the Ventana you can't miss.

[Dutch Star Don]

Thanks Lancer63......I've been typing all of my must haves and comparing the two coaches. This dealer special ordered a lot of things to make the two coaches almost the same. I have a 400 ISL in a short coach and it's a rocket, but I do tow a 4 door Chevy Silverado and on occasion I have my RZR in the bed of the truck. The weight difference between my Diplomat and the DS is about 4000 pounds more. I haven't checked the weight on the Ventana.

I've never had the hydronic heating and not sure what all it does. Will look it up now.

[zman62]

Once you have hydronic heat you will never go back

[Deek]

Don --

Great choices, either Ventana or Dutch Star. We had a loaded 2011 Ventana 3433 and moved up to an equally loaded 2013 Dutch Star 4018. The differences were very significant. Yes, there is a price difference and for many people, this will be a big deal. I have often said, however, that regardless of price, even if the deal you get is a great one but you do not end up with what you really want, it was truly not a good deal in the first place.

There are significant differences between the two coaches, including some of the ones you have discovered (Oasis / hydronic) and some you haven't (independent front suspension, heavier duty rating on axles, all the options available on Dutch Star that are not available on Ventana).

If price point is the deciding thing, the Ventana is an outstanding choice. If price is not the driving factor, however, you should look very seriously at the Star. When we took delivery of ours at the factory last February, we happened to spend time at Camp Newmar alongside a couple who full time who, in the past thirteen years, have owned no less than 12 Dutch Stars. They do a lot of caravan leading for RV Adventures and they are a couple who are, as you can imagine, very well known to Newmar. We had three delightful days and evenings with these people. They knew more about motor homing than we could hope to know, both of us combined. They said that they were utterly convinced that the single best product in the entire Newmar line, bar none, is the Dutch Star -- for value, features, ability to customize, performance, comfort, livability. I know that seems to be a lot to take in and of course everyone has his or her opinion. But when people with that kind of experience talk, I tend to pay attention. Now having owned both Ventana and Dutch Star, I can say that I agree with them.

We have been completely happy with our Dutch Star and we have found it to be all that the couple we met said about it.

That being said, we also loved our Ventana and were happy as clams with it right up till and including the day we traded it and it left our house to go to the dealer we traded it to in California.

Bottom line is that you absolutely owe it to yourself and your wife to drive both the Ventana and the Dutch Star models that the dealer has on his lot that you are considering. There is no shortcut for walking through them, feeling how they feel, touching the surfaces, seeing how you will live in them, deciding which feels better, and, most importantly, driving them on a good test drive of as many miles as they will let you take it out for. And of course your wife should be there and with you giving you her impressions and feelings at every step of the way.

Best of luck in making your decision and be sure to post back on our Forum what you and your wife decide -- followed by posting of lots of pictures of your new Newmar coach. How we all love to see pictures of new dreams on our Forum!

Cheers --

Deek

[Lancer63]

Both the Ventana and Dutch Star are built on the Freightliner XCR chassis. At least in 2014. The chassis has independent front suspension. Front axle for the Ventana is 14000 pounds, 14600 for the DS.

[Dutch Star Don]

Thanks for the good info. It seems that Newmar is making the Ventana and DS very close. The IFS would have been a big issue, but as stated and in reviewing the literature, they put it on both coaches. I always try to buy the best I can afford, but the Ventana is pretty tempting. We live in California and really only hit cold weather while camping a couple of times a year. Loosing the side radiator, 400Hp vs 450Hp and the hydronic heating for $30,000.00 is a tough choice. If this dealer hadn't added so many upgrades to the Venatna it would be an easy decision.

It's 3:00am and I'm downloading both brochures and making notes. I'm a little disappointed with the lack of info in the brochures. I want to know what type of inverters they use, neither brochure actually states engine brake vs exhaust brake, are the front brakes disc or drum and a few other things. I think I'll look up the FL XCR chassis info and see if that sheds some light.

[Lancer63]

Geez Don. 3 AM. Since you have a dealer with coaches to physically compare I'd be spending a lot of time on the lot. There's a lot of differences between the DS and Ventana. A lot in finish and details. The biggies to me are the side radiator and to some extent borsepower. I suppose I more heavily weight torque. Climbing trumps acceleration for me. If you have concerns about not haing a side radiator, and the 50 extra horsepower and the DS gives you the livability you want, you should by all means get the DS. Don't make a decision you'll regret. For now, I'm really loving my Ventana. Of course though motorhomes are addictive I can dream about someday having an Essex.

[joelyn5]

Diplomat Don - some folks will disagree, but.... Torque gets you up the hill; horsepower determines how fast you get up the hill. But honestly, is 50 horses really worth bothering about? Had a 2002 40 Ft Dutchstar with a 330 Cat. We went all over the west, up Loveland Pass in Colorado ( isn't it about 11,000 ft?) without any trouble. So IMHO, either 400 or 450 HP will be fine for you. Good luck on your decision. By the way, we love our Oasis hydronic heating system. Lots of heat and endless hot water. And the exhaust doesn't stink much at all compared to the earlier AuqaHot systems.

[nforus]

It's my understanding that the torque is the same in both motors, we had an ISL 400 and then an ISL 425 and both had the same torque. Since you already drive an ISL 400, you probably know what to expect. I would look carefully at the weights of each coach. If the Dutchie is very much heavier than the Ventana, then the Ventana might actually have better performance on hills, but they're probably very close. I also vote for the Hydronic heating, we wouldn't have another coach without it. I agree with those who say that the Dutchstar is the best value/features combination on the market.

[Dutch Star Don]

I've had an ISL for 9 years and the 50 HP between the two motors is not a big issue to me. I live out west and I've climbed everything out here without issue, even towing my truck. SO the HP vs torque thing is not something I'm concerned about, as long as it's an ISL. The torque is the same on the Ventana and the DS. The 50 extra HP I can chip or have uprated by Cummins. This dealer has 6 coaches all forty footers and all the same floor plan. I don't know why he didn't get at least two different plans. They also all have the booth dinette which were not a big fan of, but the booth design is not bad since they made it into a little lounger.

Typically, motor homes have their various levels of coaches. I could walk into any Monaco product blindfolded and know if it was a Diplomat, Camelot or a Dynasty. The interiors in these Ventana's and DS's are pretty much identical. It seems as though Newmar may have bumped the Ventana up to the DS quality and are getting ready to bump the DS up another notch. I saw this happen between the Monaco Knight and Diplomat. The Knight got nicer each year, but always retained the smaller motor. In this case, the Ventana is retaining the rear radiator.

I've followed Newmar and Tiffin products for the past couple of years as we have started a new coach search. I estimate I will RV for another 12-15 years and I don't expect my Diplomat to make it that long. Newmar and Tiffin are the only two lines I would buy at this time. Monaco is gone and I won't buy a Fleetwood or Navistar product. For me the Newmars were always a little plain inside for my taste. Kind of like a European luxury car vs a Japanese luxury car. But now.....wow, what a tastefully done interior with some really high end features.

Right now, he has a Ventana in the light brown exterior that I really like. After years of clear coat issues, I don't want or like the dark colored roof lines. If one of his two DS had this brown color scheme, I could be "Dutch Star Don" by the weekend. The exterior has to grab me too and only one of the two DS are something I could live with color wise.

Thanks for letting me pick your brains. He's pricing the DS at $269K and the Ventana at $239K which are prices I didn't expect to see. I haven't priced elsewhere, but suspect these are pretty good prices. Both are about 28% off MSRP. The downside is that California will hit me for another $25K- $30K in license and tax.

[Dutch Star Don]

UPDATE.......After looking more closely, there were a few more items that the Dutch Star offered that the Ventana didn't, so I'm now the proud owner of a 2014 DS 4018. Thanks for all the advice.