2014 Dutch Star 4038---Pessman DSDP

[redbaron73]

Originally Posted by pessman

Hey thanks Dale!!

Yeah, I'm in research mode. Spent and hour+ on the phone yesterday with Richard Dahl -- Mr. RVWaterFilterStore.com guy. Learned a hell of a lot. I think I'll get a little mileage on me and the vehicle before we decide on a system. The Vagabond certainly looks interesting!

One thing Rick mentioned was whether you wanted a system filter between shore water and the holding tank. A lot of sediment collects over time. If so, a dual canister carbon block filter + sediment filter can be installed in the upper right section of the service bay, then feed into the holding tank before it goes through the canister/filter Newmar installed. And it could be a whole RV RO system. My concern is with all those filters, water flow to the coach is impacted. Richard said you would need to insure 60-65+ psi out of the shore water connection.

How goes the early days of DS World?

Phil

So you are the other guy Rick was talking about. I too have been harrassing him for the past 2 days, and spent a long time on the phone.

I have finally been able to come up with a solution, and I get the AUTO FILL I was dreaming about having. No more waiting for the water to fill, and swapping it back and forth.

In discussing the install, the normal method Rick suggested was to drill a hole, and install a float switch. This would be the auto on/ auto off. What I want to use is a external type switch. I sent Rick a part number for him to investigate. If this works out, then the install will be one that does not require any drilling into the main tank, except for the 1/4" hose for the feed.

I am very excited about this project, and plan on having it done before the Roost!

[FLSteve]

Originally Posted by pessman

One thing Rick mentioned was whether you wanted a system filter between shore water and the holding tank. A lot of sediment collects over time. If so, a dual canister carbon block filter + sediment filter can be installed in the upper right section of the service bay, then feed into the holding tank before it goes through the canister/filter Newmar installed.

pessman ... I was reading this and decided to go out and look at my "stock" Newmar installation. If I traced it out correctly ... the shore water 1st goes through the canister/filter that Newmar installed before it either goes into the storage tank or into the coach ... so 100% of shore water is initially filtered before entering the coach/tank. Is Rick referring to sediment that may build up in the storage tank over time? If I do use my pump ... it pulls out of the storage tank and is not filtered a 2nd time. I guess I am relying on the initial filtering before it gets put into the tank. I also drain my storage tank every once in a while when topping it off to try and purge any sediment that may of built up.

Am I understanding what Rick is saying?

Steve

[redbaron73]

The filtration thing really was confusing to me as well. Basically the tank should be as pure as possible, and routinely drained to remove the sediments that have collected. In the stock configuration, there is only a single filter. It filters the water before it goes into the tank.

With the Whole RV RO system that Rick sells, it filters 3 times, then does the RO process before going into the tank. I am looking at doing a DUAL RO, running in Series, to reduce the waste water, and cut the fill time in half.

If I choose to bypass, then the water will pass thru the 3 filters ( 2 sediments, 1 charcoal) then go thru the stock filter before going to the house. Rick told me that if I plan on doing a lot of bypass, that the charcoal filter should be swapped out with a hi-flow version.

I am working on a diagram of how the install will look, and will post it up.

[FLSteve]

Originally Posted by redbaron73

With the Whole RV RO system that Rick sells, it filters 3 times, then does the RO process before going into the tank. I am looking at doing a DUAL RO, running in Series, to reduce the waste water, and cut the fill time in half.

If I choose to bypass, then the water will pass through the 3 filters ( 2 sediments, 1 charcoal) then go thru the stock filter before going to the house. Rick told me that if I plan on doing a lot of bypass, that the charcoal filter should be swapped out with a hi-flow version.

redbaron73 ... are you concerned any with a resulting pressure loss? Doesn't it take some pressure to push the water through the RO membranes? Does the system come with an in-line booster pump by any chance to compensate for that?

Steve

[RedBird1]

Originally Posted by skmwalden

redbaron73 ... are you concerned any with a resulting pressure loss? Doesn't it take some pressure to push the water through the RO membranes? Does the system come with an in-line booster pump by any chance to compensate for that?

Steve

RedB:

X2 on above. Yes. That was me. I'm coming at it from a position of ignorance, or at least unfamiliarity. Rick mentioned that there could well be a loss of "flow" with the additional Canisters in place. What about installation of some type of pump engine mid-system to insure that doesn't happen. Does a high flow filter Adequately address that problem? Maybe it all gets more complicated than necessary for a fairly effective water filtration result.

Skmw:

Yes. Rick is referring to the sediment build up. I defer to all of you as to whether that is a real problem or not -- one not resolved by a purging of the holding tank. Not knowing the configuration of that tank, is there any way to apply water pressure through a wand to effectively rinse the sediment in the bottom out?

Pessman

[redbaron73]

The pressure to make RO is 40+ psi. I am buying a kit that includes a booster pump to solve the pressure being low at some city hookups.

For inside use, I will now always be on the pump. That way all water is RO, and as long as I am on city water, the tank will stay full automatically.

If for some reason I have to bypass the RO, then I think pressure will be a problem unless the charcoal filter is changed out to a high flow.

[spinn]

I have used"point of use" ro water in our S&B houses for decades and have never had an issue. I like the idea of using ro water in our motor home with the watertank as the reservoir but I have one concern hopefully someone here can address it.

RO water is significantly more corrosive than tap or softened water, this due to the solvent qualities of water and the lack of buffering minerals in the ro water.
Most of our motorhomes are plumbed with PEX so no issue there but what about heaters and standard plumbing fixtures? Had anyone investigated or heard of any issues or had recommendation on how ro water will effect these fixtures?
If I am being overly concerned then please excuse me but I thought I would ask.

Best-Steve

[redbaron73]

Originally Posted by spinn

RO water is significantly more corrosive than tap or softened water, this due to the solvent qualities of water and the lack of buffering minerals in the ro water.

Uh-oh. I didn't realize this. Now I wonder about the Oasis system, and washer, dishwasher. Plenty that corrosion could harm.

Is this a real concern?

[spinn]

I don't know either hence my inquiry. Perhaps it is a non issue but I was concerned, I too wanted to do whole rv ro.

I will place some calls next week to oasis and a couple of the plumbing fixture companies.

[redbaron73]

Here is one article that has information about water.
https://www.scdhec.gov/environment/w...blems_Full.pdf

The problem is when RO water sits it will try to remineralize through osmosis. This may affect the oasis system.

I have sent Rick an email and will also contact the oasis folks.

[spinn]

Originally Posted by redbaron73

Here is one article that has information about water.
https://www.scdhec.gov/environment/w...blems_Full.pdf

The problem is when RO water sits it will try to remineralize through osmosis. This may affect the oasis system.

I have sent Rick an email and will also contact the oasis folks.

Exactly my concern Redb, but the only place to get minerals back is from scale, which may have built up, or from metal fixtures. Fortunately PEX, to my knowledge, is inert so no fear of extraction of chemicals from that. Water is an amazing solvent, pure water even more so! Most metals, minerals, certain organic compounds line up to move into solution in water, it is a great solvent!

[redbaron73]

So really that leaves the washing machine dishwasher and oasis as potential problem areas. All of these have metal that comes in contact with the RO. The oasis is my biggest concern as it will always have water in it.

[spinn]

Originally Posted by redbaron73

So really that leaves the washing machine dishwasher and oasis as potential problem areas. All of these have metal that comes in contact with the RO. The oasis is my biggest concern as it will always have water in it.

All the water fixtures as well, sinks, shower, toilet. Although not really a consumption concern with those but could cause issues long term. Guess if you could switch coaches every 5 years or so it wouldn't be an issue for you :-)

[RedBird1]

All

What follows is a response from Mike at Vagabond water systems to two of the questions I asked him. This is just to stick in your file re RO systems and possible alternatives.. I know RedBaron was looking to build in an automatic fill feature....Did not ask about the potential long term problems with fixtures etc due to the nature of the RO'd water...

Phil-
Thanks for your inquiry about Vagabondwater's whole-RV reverse osmosis system.
You voiced two questions:
1) is there a local alternative for installation?
Short answer- anyone familiar with RV plumbing & plumbing parts can install our system. Your rig likely has PEX water supply piping, and most of our fitting simply plug into PEX line to "tee" in. Those that don't plug together screw together. You will need someone who can take your coach's water schematic & figure out where to plug in. We have a manual that details the instructions for installation & operation.
2) Does it impact flow?
No. With our system you fill your tank with RO water and live out of your tank. We take our rig to Mexico where water standards are lousy, but do pre-filtration & RO and we take on water with impunity. I do reduce the initial pre-filter micron standard to 0.5 micron from 5 micron, and the lower standard traps viruses & cysts that will pass thru 5 micron. In the States & Canada we have good germicidal treatment of municipal water (and wells are natural good germicidal filters if properly constructed, and some parks are on wells), so the 5 micron filter is fine for sediment. You run the standard water input to your coach's hose inlet, fill your tank thru the RO system, and use water for showers, drinking, coffee, etc. as normal. Filling requires placing the reject water that washes the RO membrane someplace. I like to water plants & trees where possible. Otherwise that goes down the sewer.
If you stay at places for extended periods, we have optional automatic controls that fill your tank for you without you having to watch the level. You just hook up & turn on the control, and automatic valves & float sensors do the rest.

If you have any additional questions or would like to place an order, please feel free to email or call anytime.
Thanks,
EngineerMike@Vagabondwater.com
Mike Fleming, 916-240-2141 cell