2014 Mountain Aire Power Problems

[cucotx]

Originally Posted by redbaron73

... I am sure the max limits of the forces it can apply are exceeded without power steering and so the comfort drive disables.

This would then be the same as if the coach did not have comfort drive.

Yes. But from an Engineering point of view, you could have weird things happen during the transition period, right after the power steering hose bursts, as the pressures in the system drop very quickly. The CD may just be reacting during this transition period. But, as others have mentioned, only those familiar with CD would be able to respond to this.

Hopefully, the CD system has access to some sensor reading power steering status to prevent it from doing the wrong thing. But, this is all speculation at this point.

[redbaron73]

Originally Posted by cucotx

Yes. But from an Engineering point of view, you could have weird things happen during the transition period, right after the power steering hose bursts, as the pressures in the system drop very quickly. The CD may just be reacting during this transition period. But, as others have mentioned, only those familiar with DP would be able to respond to this. Hopefully, the CD system has access to some sensor reading power steering status to prevent it from doing the wrong thing. But, this is all speculation at this point.

What would happen is the cd would attempt
To hold the wheels where they are. Forces would be exceeded, and either the cd unit gear stripped (my words, no facts behind this guess) or simply shutdown.

Cd is a fail safe design, meaning a failure returns system to normal.

Now imagine any vehicle without power steering under any condition. Laws of physics take over. At slow speed you do not have "an object in motion" overriding the force of torque, twist, road, etc.

At highway speed it will be much different because now you are in motion and the wheels will tend to stay tracking.

This is where losing cd can soil your britches. I often drive with a finger on the wheel and a sandwich in hand. Losing ps and then cd would expose the cross wind and road crown.

I may reconsider the one finger on wheel and apply two.

The one take away; any sign of power steering failure, as the op states he did have early signs, need to be considered high priority.

If you see leaks or boiling over, consider the risks, set the sandwich down, and be ready as you limp to service.

[Lennox4u]

Originally Posted by slabman

Are you sure you didn't hit an object sticking above ground with one of your frt. wheels? I think we all have had that experience....you roll over a projection like a rock or a piece of wood and suddenly the wheel is pulled on one direction. Scary thought, but quite understandable in most situations. Not saying this happened, but typically, there is more to the story....I'd love to be privy to more details of this incident. PM me, please.

Slabman, thanks for your interest in my plight. It would be nice if it was something as simple as you have described, unfortunately, it was an outright mechanical failure. This is another long one, so pour yourself a drink and clear your mind.
As I alluded to in my previous post, when Freightliner and Cummins were diagnosing the power problem, they had put the coach on a dino. While on the dino, the Cummins tech noticed that the power steering unit was over heating to the point where fluid was boiling up out of it. Freightliner came out and test drove the coach and said at the end of the test drive the power steering unit was operating normally, and that when Cummins had it on the dino, they must have had the wheels slightly turned, causing it to be under continuous load, thus overheating. No further investigation was done.
We took a trip to the Florida keys (Bluewater Key RV Resort, amazing place). In route we stopped in Gatlinburg TN, Savana GA and Cape Canaveral. When we arrived at the RV park in Savana, I pulled into our site, it was a crescent pull through and only slightly un-level. After pulling in I had to back up to line the coach up with the patio pad. While I was turning the wheel, it suddenly jerked from my hands and spun violently in the opposite direction I was turning it. I’m not exaggerating when I say, it nearly broke my wrist when I tried stopping it. The wheel spun several revolutions until, again violently, the front tires slammed abruptly into the wheel stops. I tried turning the wheel back, but was unable. I engaged the parking break and stepped out of the coach to see what was going on. As soon as I stepped out I heard a hissing noise and fluid draining onto the ground. I looked under the coach and saw power steering fluid spewing out onto the ground. I jumped back into the coach and shut it down. Since I was now on a first name bases with everyone at Freightliner, I called them and they immediately sent someone out from Freightliner Savana to look at the coach. The incident occurred on a Saturday night, The Tech came out on Sunday and made the repairs. I cannot say enough about how great the service was from Freightliner.
What the Tech discovered was that the power steering line, where it attaches to the steering unit at the front of the coach had separated from its coupling. He said he had never seen that happen before, and that the unit must have been extremely overheated and under tremendous pressure for that to occur. Attached is a photo of the hose hanging down, sorry it might be difficult to figure out what you’re looking at. To give a bit more description, the hose is about 2 ft long and has metal fittings pressed on at both ends. When the tech inspected the hose, he said the fittings where applied correctly, so the only explanation was it must have over heated thus exceeding the pressure threshold of the fitting.
All that said, the part that had me most concerned was the steering wheel spinning violently to the wheel stops. The tech said the enormous release of pressure must have caused the wheel to spin the opposite direction. Needless to say, but the rest of the trip down to the keys and back to Michigan was a white knuckle ride, extremely tense and stressful. I was gripping the wheel with both hands fearful that the power steering line would separate again and jerk the wheel from my hands and turn us off a cliff or into oncoming traffic.
After that I spent a month going back and forth with Freightliner and Newmar on the issue. Freightliner kept coming back and saying what I was describing was impossible, if the hose bursts or fails all that will happen is the power steering will no longer work and the coach will be very difficult to steer. The steering wheel will not spin out of your hands. Unfortunately Newmar was of no help here they simply kept differing back to Freightliner. This is where I have an issue with Newmar. At the end of the day, I bought a Newmar coach, not a freightliner chassis. Newmar chose the Chassis along with everything else they put in the coach. In truth, they are an assembler and modifier of components supplied by others. My Essex had a Spartan Chassis. Either way, it makes no difference to me. I want to deal with Newmar, not their suppliers. If nothing else I was relying on them to be my advocate. Unfortunately they were not.
Freightliner was essentially saying I was hallucinating and Newmar was baking them up, as opposed to the customer that spent nearly half a million on a coach with them. I then reminded them that both Newmar and Freightliner had previously stated my coach did not have a power problem after both had driven it. It took me posting a video on YouTube along with 4 shop visits for them to take me seriously. At which point they discovered the engine fan relay had been incorrectly programmed and was running continuously, robing about 60HP. So on the power issue I was vindicated, however I still felt the Chassis was misapplied to the application. As for the power steering issue, there was no way of duplicating the incident, so the easy answer was, it never happened. Freightliner and Newmar both refused to take it any further. As a result, I was uncomfortable keeping the coach, Newmar refused to take it back, so I sold it back to the dealer and lost $185,000.
Sorry if a little bitterness is coming out, but this whole ordeal was exhausting and beyond frustrating. I think on the whole Newmar is a good company, but what separates good companies from GREAT companies, is how they address the very rare exceptions that come up. It is unlikely this series of events will ever repeat itself, Newmar knows that, so they turned their back on me. Not trying to be dramatic here, simply stating how it appeared to me. I think it was a very short sighted decision. I’m only 45 years old, this was my second Newmar, I would have likely bought at least another 5 or 6 in my life time, plus thy would have had a well-connected and vocal spokesman. If I do decide to buy another Newmar, it will be because of the guys at Midway RV in Grand Rapids, they know how to take care of a customer. What would immediately win me back, is if Newmar had a change of heart and bellied up to the bar. I’m thinking that is very unlikely.

[Mr_Mechanica]

I am curious why Freightliner (Newmar) didn't just replace the whole power steering unit instead of risking a fatal incident due to lose of control. Sounds like someone was not considering risk management.

[Lennox4u]

Originally Posted by cucotx

Yes. But from an Engineering point of view, you could have weird things happen during the transition period, right after the power steering hose bursts, as the pressures in the system drop very quickly. The CD may just be reacting during this transition period. But, as others have mentioned, only those familiar with CD would be able to respond to this.

Hopefully, the CD system has access to some sensor reading power steering status to prevent it from doing the wrong thing. But, this is all speculation at this point.

The CD system was my first thought as well, but when I asked Newmar about it, they said it in no way could have contributed to the wheel spin. I have read the other comments regarding power steering failures, and I agree that is what you would think should happen. I think the difference is, there were a series of issues with the power steering system that created the perfect storm. One we know is, the unit was overheating, the others would only be guesses, like there could have also been an obstruction of some kind in the line causing the overheating and simultaneously creating a backpressure point, so when the line burst, the obstruction caused an unbalanced release of the fluid, thus causing the wheel to spin. On the other hand, It could just be a design flaw. Someone suggested bring the coach into a shop, run it on the dino, turn the wheels while on the ground to create a real load, then cut the high pressure power steering line. Considering the force involved, I would not want to be the one cutting the line.

[slabman]

That is one bizarre series of incidents. (Good this this didn't happen to the RedBarron or he'd have lost his sandwich and adult? drink! LOL!)

Yes, I wouldn't think the power steering would cause the wheel jerking, but with loss of pressure, I'm not certain. I think if this happened to me I'd get that power steering componentry replaced, paid by myself if no one else would help. A lot cheaper than selling the unit back and losing all that money. But I also understand not wanting to live in a "haunted?" house, perhaps. Clearly, there was something wrong there from the get-go. Sorry you had to go through all this.

[khogle2]

Originally Posted by Lennox4u

Slabman, thanks for your interest in my plight. It would be nice if it was something as simple as you have described, unfortunately, it was an outright mechanical failure. This is another long one, so pour yourself a drink and clear your mind. As I alluded to in my previous post, when Freightliner and Cummins were diagnosing the power problem, they had put the coach on a dino. While on the dino, the Cummins tech noticed that the power steering unit was over heating to the point where fluid was boiling up out of it. Freightliner came out and test drove the coach and said at the end of the test drive the power steering unit was operating normally, and that when Cummins had it on the dino, they must have had the wheels slightly turned, causing it to be under continuous load, thus overheating. No further investigation was done. We took a trip to the Florida keys (Bluewater Key RV Resort, amazing place). In route we stopped in Gatlinburg TN, Savana GA and Cape Canaveral. When we arrived at the RV park in Savana, I pulled into our site, it was a crescent pull through and only slightly un-level. After pulling in I had to back up to line the coach up with the patio pad. While I was turning the wheel, it suddenly jerked from my hands and spun violently in the opposite direction I was turning it. I’m not exaggerating when I say, it nearly broke my wrist when I tried stopping it. The wheel spun several revolutions until, again violently, the front tires slammed abruptly into the wheel stops. I tried turning the wheel back, but was unable. I engaged the parking break and stepped out of the coach to see what was going on. As soon as I stepped out I heard a hissing noise and fluid draining onto the ground. I looked under the coach and saw power steering fluid spewing out onto the ground. I jumped back into the coach and shut it down. Since I was now on a first name bases with everyone at Freightliner, I called them and they immediately sent someone out from Freightliner Savana to look at the coach. The incident occurred on a Saturday night, The Tech came out on Sunday and made the repairs. I cannot say enough about how great the service was from Freightliner. What the Tech discovered was that the power steering line, where it attaches to the steering unit at the front of the coach had separated from its coupling. He said he had never seen that happen before, and that the unit must have been extremely overheated and under tremendous pressure for that to occur. Attached is a photo of the hose hanging down, sorry it might be difficult to figure out what you’re looking at. To give a bit more description, the hose is about 2 ft long and has metal fittings pressed on at both ends. When the tech inspected the hose, he said the fittings where applied correctly, so the only explanation was it must have over heated thus exceeding the pressure threshold of the fitting. All that said, the part that had me most concerned was the steering wheel spinning violently to the wheel stops. The tech said the enormous release of pressure must have caused the wheel to spin the opposite direction. Needless to say, but the rest of the trip down to the keys and back to Michigan was a white knuckle ride, extremely tense and stressful. I was gripping the wheel with both hands fearful that the power steering line would separate again and jerk the wheel from my hands and turn us off a cliff or into oncoming traffic. After that I spent a month going back and forth with Freightliner and Newmar on the issue. Freightliner kept coming back and saying what I was describing was impossible, if the hose bursts or fails all that will happen is the power steering will no longer work and the coach will be very difficult to steer. The steering wheel will not spin out of your hands. Unfortunately Newmar was of no help here they simply kept differing back to Freightliner. This is where I have an issue with Newmar. At the end of the day, I bought a Newmar coach, not a freightliner chassis. Newmar chose the Chassis along with everything else they put in the coach. In truth, they are an assembler and modifier of components supplied by others. My Essex had a Spartan Chassis. Either way, it makes no difference to me. I want to deal with Newmar, not their suppliers. If nothing else I was relying on them to be my advocate. Unfortunately they were not. Freightliner was essentially saying I was hallucinating and Newmar was baking them up, as opposed to the customer that spent nearly half a million on a coach with them. I then reminded them that both Newmar and Freightliner had previously stated my coach did not have a power problem after both had driven it. It took me posting a video on YouTube along with 4 shop visits for them to take me seriously. At which point they discovered the engine fan relay had been incorrectly programmed and was running continuously, robing about 60HP. So on the power issue I was vindicated, however I still felt the Chassis was misapplied to the application. As for the power steering issue, there was no way of duplicating the incident, so the easy answer was, it never happened. Freightliner and Newmar both refused to take it any further. As a result, I was uncomfortable keeping the coach, Newmar refused totake it back, so I sold it back to the dealer and lost $185,000. Sorry if a little bitterness is coming out, but this whole ordeal was exhausting and beyond frustrating. I think on the whole Newmar is a good company, but what separates good companies from GREAT companies, is how they address the very rare exceptions that come up. It is unlikely this series of events will ever repeat itself, Newmar knows that, so they turned their back on me. Not trying to be dramatic here, simply stating how it appeared to me. I think it was a very short sighted decision. I’m only 45 years old, this was my second Newmar, I would have likely bought at least another 5 or 6 in my life time, plus thy would have had a well-connected and vocal spokesman. If I do decide to buy another Newmar, it will be because of the guys at Midway RV in Grand Rapids, they know how to take care of a customer. What would immediately win me back, is if Newmar had a change of heart and bellied up to the bar. I’m thinking that is very unlikely.

If that is just a crimped on fitting on a high pressure hose, it is not an unusual failure with automotive OEM suppliers. I have seen that type of failure on power steering hoses and transmission hoses. That may be the weak link if for some reason, pressure exceeds normal expected values.

That is a very interesting and unfortunate event. I am not knowledgeable about this comfort drive, but if you had an existing system problem and then a subsequent failure on one side of the system, it would be something that should be either investigated by Newmar or explained to your satisfaction it seems.

Sorry for all your trouble. You probably did the right thing, I doubt you would have ever trusted the motorhome after that happened.

[cucotx]

Originally Posted by Lennox4u

... Unfortunately Newmar was of no help here they simply kept differing back to Freightliner. This is where I have an issue with Newmar. At the end of the day, I bought a Newmar coach, not a freightliner chassis. Newmar chose the Chassis along with everything else they put in the coach ...

Yes. I think you're right. I'm not a lawyer, but I think the manfucturer, not the OEMs, are responsible for the finished product. Newmar can always recover financial loses from OEMs, but they're most likely the legal go-to entity for the customer.

Originally Posted by Lennox4u

... I think on the whole Newmar is a good company, but what separates good companies from GREAT companies, is how they address the very rare exceptions that come up. It is unlikely this series of events will ever repeat itself, Newmar knows that, so they turned their back on me ...

This is an example of how companies that are growing and successful eventually lose out on a chance to demonstrate how they stand behind their words on ethics and customer value. As the phrase says, "You can talk the talk, but can you walk the talk"

Originally Posted by Lennox4u

... if Newmar had a change of heart and bellied up to the bar. I’m thinking that is very unlikely.

I think you bought and drove a lemon. You're lucky no one got hurt.

Newmar lost you as a customer instead of, in the end, making things right.

This is all very disappointing.

[cucotx]

Originally Posted by khogle2

... You probably did the right thing, I doubt you would have ever trusted the motorhome after that happened.

Except that now, someone else is driving that coach ...

Lennox4U, if you have the VIN for the coach, and you publish it here, the buyer of your coach may be interested in this discussion.

[Lennox4u]

Originally Posted by cucotx

Except that now, someone else is driving that coach ...

Lennox4U, if you have the VIN for the coach, and you publish it here, the buyer of your coach may be interested in this discussion.

I will give it some thought. That said, anyone who purchased one of the early 2014 Mountain Aires, should also be talking about this to Newmar. I purchased mine in June of 2013, I believe it was one of the first, if not the first 2014's. My feeling is and was, they had not worked the bugs out.

Slabman makes a good point about just paying to replace everything instead of flushing $185,000 down the toilet , but as Khogle2 said, I just could not see myself trusting the coach. After all, the point of it all is to enjoy Gods creation, not wondering if I would be introducing my family to Him on our next trip.

[cucotx]

I vote for you getting a lawyer and suing to get your money back.

I think you would win. You seem to have good documentation on your adventures with this coach.

[Lennox4u]

Originally Posted by RV4Me4Life

Thank you Steve. I have call Freightliner and they're willing to do exactly this. I'll just need to find the time to get the bus down there and have this accomplished. I will post results. It may not be within the next week but probably after that.

I had my 2014 Mountain Aire Dynod by cummins. 319HP at the rear wheels. After they corrected the fan issue, it jumped to 351 at the rear wheels.

[PoetryJoe]

Originally Posted by Lennox4u

I had my 2014 Mountain Aire Dynod by cummins. 319HP at the rear wheels. After they corrected the fan issue, it jumped to 351 at the rear wheels.

Good - I think this thread had run its course. Now is a good time for the OP and Newmar, Freightliner, etc., to work it out.

Joe

[redbaron73]

Originally Posted by Lennox4u

I had my 2014 Mountain Aire Dynod by cummins. 319HP at the rear wheels. After they corrected the fan issue, it jumped to 351 at the rear wheels.

Is this what a 450hp should generate? Did they give you a range of what is acceptable?