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Old 09-24-2020, 12:30 AM   #1
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2021 Order Form - Audio/Video Accessory Items Outdated Technology and High Prices

On the 2021 Order Forms (as of 8/26/2020 dated pages), the options shown are old technology at very high prices. For example, they want $1,092 for a WiFi Ranger Sky4 Pack Router and $1,463 for a Skypro LTE cellular router. WiFi ranger doesnít offer these models. Their current line is the Converge with various models such as the Denali and Teton. Another example of old technology is the $1,218 Winegard dome sat dish listed as an RTS-20B model. That is a very old Road Trip model that isnít offered today - that one seems to date back to 2016/2017. The Xite radio with the Rand McNally stands out at $2,233! That is also an old model unit, with newer ones that are far better in the $400 range. For the Bose solo 5, Newmar wants $539. You can easily buy one for $200. I understand a bit of a mark up for installing and additional profit, but that is way off.

I have also noticed that 2021 Tiffin optional features with the same function/features cost far less than Newmar.

Yes, I can not opt for the Newmar factory installed and then buy and install myself or hire a shop. But why must I go through that when I am buying an expensive new coach? Tiffin offers more reasonable optional feature pricing. An example, Tiffin has a price of $2175 for 3 solar panels - Newmar wants over $5000. In motion Sat - Tiffin $1,450, Newmar $1,875.
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Old 09-24-2020, 10:02 AM   #2
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Just my observations on this....

I think a lot of the up-charge is because Newmar is tiring to straddle the line between a production coach company and a custom coach builder. You’ll notice many options with Newmar and very few with Tiffin.

I can see extra expenses for Newmar in sourcing, ordering, stocking, installing, integrating, set-up and testing, etc. This also means a lot of custom wiring during the build which would either slow the line, or require a custom build off the line.

On old tech, much of that stuff is obsolete but might suit owners needs and supports other obsolete stuff owners might use. And new tech will both be offered as it arrives and can be integrated into the build process, and will be obsolete six months later.

I don’t know what the solution is other than to not order all the stuff in the “ Audio, Visual, and Entertainment” section of the options. I would not only not order it, I can’t see the need for any of it with communications advancing so rapidly. My little thumb drive size ROKU provides all the TV stuff I could ever want, and you can always plug in to cable in parks with hook ups. I don’t need or want TV when I’m out exploring nature or on the road between destinations. I just removed my Winegard Traveler and Winegard TV antenna from my coach to make room for more solar. So I see it all as unnecessary.

And you can add to your list the universal remote ($192) which someone has to spend time programming, and the RV TollPass, which is over $100 more than the on-line cost, but Newmar’s is installed and hardwired.

As to why they are currently offering obsolete stuff, remember you are looking at 2020 offerings and the 2021 version may be updated, and they may also have a lot of that stuff in stock and are trying to move it, and if it suits a buyer’s needs and they want to pay that price, why not offer it? But I agree with your basic premise which is why every time I go through the “build your own” process, I skip “AV&E”.
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Old 09-24-2020, 10:10 AM   #3
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Maybe because "obsolete" buyers don't care or know the difference? Not just tech-stuff, but televisions too. Our 2018 came with outdated Sonys right from the factory. Which I had been more aware.
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Old 09-24-2020, 01:18 PM   #4
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Can you order the tech as a pre-wire only?
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Old 09-24-2020, 01:22 PM   #5
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Can you order the tech as a pre-wire only?
you can with solar as a listed option and the rest would come under “specials” to be granted with an up-charge or denied. But I’ve seen a lot of specials lists that include wiring and conduit for various devices including HDMI pre-wire.

You're not thinking new coach after all you’ve done are you?
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Old 09-24-2020, 03:40 PM   #6
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From another thread, Wifi prep 1" conduit from roof to front OHC has been ordered as a 'special' for $850 per conduit.
I noticed the old Wifi Ranger on order form too and just hope they don't have 5 years worth of inventory. Still very expensive even if it is new Converge equip.
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Old 09-24-2020, 10:26 PM   #7
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you can with solar as a listed option and the rest would come under ďspecialsĒ to be granted with an up-charge or denied. But Iíve seen a lot of specials lists that include wiring and conduit for various devices including HDMI pre-wire.

You're not thinking new coach after all youíve done are you?
No, absolutely no new coach on the horizon. I don't have this one the way I want it yet
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Old 09-25-2020, 12:56 AM   #8
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Yes....there will always be a premium on upgrades. They're not watching the weekly adds and buying an antenna on a yearly special, so the prices are higher. There is also another consideration.....yes the Xite radio is expensive and if I were to do it again, I probably would not order it....but there are items included with that radio, like an amp, video/usb plug to the driver's side and wiring to the outside TV. Sooooo, you can't just take the base radio without realizing there are other items that are part of the option. This applies to many options. I typically install my own satellite system, but when I ordered my 2019, I didn't want to have to chase wiring through the roof and get it to the entertainment center. I paid more for Newmar to do it, but all I did was add a receiver and turn it on.

You can compare Tiffin to Newmar all day long. Neither is the perfect coach. Our friend just bought an Allegro Bus, his has a lot more electronic features, like the Spyder system, but has fewer mechanical items, like a tag in a 40', Comfort Drive and a roof rain collection system, that prevents water from running off the roof and down the sides. There are many more items that one has and the other doesn't.

Decide what is the best bang for the buck for you and buy that coach.

Lastly, ordering wifi electronics on any coach is usually a waste as most items are obsolete as soon as they're installed.
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Old 09-25-2020, 08:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeroquality View Post
On the 2021 Order Forms (as of 8/26/2020 dated pages), the options shown are old technology at very high prices. For example, they want $1,092 for a WiFi Ranger Sky4 Pack Router and $1,463 for a Skypro LTE cellular router. WiFi ranger doesnít offer these models. Their current line is the Converge with various models such as the Denali and Teton.

The models you reference are, in fact, currently offered by WiFiRanger on its OEM product line. They are simply not for sale in our online store to retail customers. Some RV manufacturers do offer products from our Converge line but many have chosen to remain with products they are familiar with.

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Old 09-25-2020, 02:30 PM   #10
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I don't understand why Newmar only offers 100 watt solar panels when you can now get 160 watt ones that are the same size or even smaller. The 2021 King Aire has a large lithium bank but you can only order 4- 100 watts panels from the factory as far as I know. To me that's not a good match up. I want to utilize the limited roof space for the maximum output.
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Old 09-25-2020, 06:30 PM   #11
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I don't understand why Newmar only offers 100 watt solar panels when you can now get 160 watt ones that are the same size or even smaller. The 2021 King Aire has a large lithium bank but you can only order 4- 100 watts panels from the factory as far as I know. To me that's not a good match up. I want to utilize the limited roof space for the maximum output.
I think itís because they arenít and donít want to be in the solar business, and the panels are flexible which makes them smaller and more expensive but also more durable and thus more likely to survive the warranty period. Itís not meant to run anything, just an OK battery charger.
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Old 10-01-2020, 12:38 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeroquality View Post
On the 2021 Order Forms (as of 8/26/2020 dated pages), the options shown are old technology at very high prices. For example, they want $1,092 for a WiFi Ranger Sky4 Pack Router and $1,463 for a Skypro LTE cellular router. WiFi ranger doesnít offer these models. Their current line is the Converge with various models such as the Denali and Teton. Another example of old technology is the $1,218 Winegard dome sat dish listed as an RTS-20B model. That is a very old Road Trip model that isnít offered today - that one seems to date back to 2016/2017. The Xite radio with the Rand McNally stands out at $2,233! That is also an old model unit, with newer ones that are far better in the $400 range. For the Bose solo 5, Newmar wants $539. You can easily buy one for $200. I understand a bit of a mark up for installing and additional profit, but that is way off.

I have also noticed that 2021 Tiffin optional features with the same function/features cost far less than Newmar.

Yes, I can not opt for the Newmar factory installed and then buy and install myself or hire a shop. But why must I go through that when I am buying an expensive new coach? Tiffin offers more reasonable optional feature pricing. An example, Tiffin has a price of $2175 for 3 solar panels - Newmar wants over $5000. In motion Sat - Tiffin $1,450, Newmar $1,875.


Please note that you are suggesting the Amish are ripping you off on their electronics they sell! Let that sink in for a bit!
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Old 10-01-2020, 08:33 PM   #13
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Please note that you are suggesting the Amish are ripping you off on their electronics they sell! Let that sink in for a bit!
A rather amusing and ironic observation.

For a little perspective, the flag pole mount is, and has been for several years, a $130 option. This seems absurd on the face of it, and if you can install your own for $15, then by all means, and if you donít care about the other $115 and want someone else to do it, then why not?

And letís not forget that all these options roll in to an MSRP that youíll only pay 65-70% of, so you can lop at least 30% off all those ďover priced optionsĒ from the start.
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Old 10-01-2020, 09:13 PM   #14
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Michigan's annual registration is based on the new, Base MSRP of an RV. It would make more sense for Michiganders to buy a box on wheels (low MSRP) and then add everything else it takes to make an RV as an option....
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