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Old 09-20-2020, 09:57 AM   #1
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3717 vs Tiffin Allegro Bus 37AP

We went looking at a Newmar 3407 plan yesterday and the sales guy was insistent we look at the 37AP so to humor him we did. Must say it is intriguing.

We thought we were mostly sold on the Newmar 3717. So now a delima. How many of you 3717 owners looked/compared/considered the Tiffin 37AP and if you could say, why you chose the 3717 instead?

And yes I posted the reverse question in the Tiffin forum too. Figuring I'd weed out the natural "I bought this brand bias so it's best" that way.
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Old 09-20-2020, 10:04 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driveby View Post
We went looking at a Newmar 3407 plan yesterday and the sales guy was insistent we look at the 37AP so to humor him we did. Must say it is intriguing.

We thought we were mostly sold on the Newmar 3717. So now a delima. How many of you 3717 owners looked/compared/considered the Tiffin 37AP and if you could say, why you chose the 3717 instead?

And yes I posted the reverse question in the Tiffin forum too. Figuring I'd weed out the natural "I bought this brand bias so it's best" that way.

Which models are you looking to compare? What I will say is we have owned both Tiffin and Newmar. Newmar was our current coach because we could customize it over the Tiffin. Tiffin will give you a lot of bang for your bucks. As far as I know Tiffin is still family owned unlike Newmar.
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Old 09-20-2020, 12:27 PM   #3
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We have been in a DS 2019 when it was cold, rainy and hot. All was very pleasant and relatively quiet. So if any of those are important I would say NEWMAR has an edge. Better insulated all round.
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Old 09-20-2020, 12:38 PM   #4
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Bigger motor in the Tiffin. 1;250# vs 800# torque.
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Old 09-20-2020, 01:24 PM   #5
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Bigger motor in the Tiffin. 1;250# vs 800# torque.
Not true. The Dutchstar 3717 has the 450hp/1250torque
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Old 09-20-2020, 03:08 PM   #6
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Hi Driveby - Until you are specific as to what you mean by a Newmar 3407 the answers you get will be somewhat meaningless. What is it you are asking to be compared? I have previously owned a 40 AP Bus so I might be able to give some insight if the picture were complete. This is part of the reason you are getting some answers that quote varying stats.


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Old 09-20-2020, 04:34 PM   #7
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Hi Driveby - Until you are specific as to what you mean by a Newmar 3407 the answers you get will be somewhat meaningless. What is it you are asking to be compared? I have previously owned a 40 AP Bus so I might be able to give some insight if the picture were complete. This is part of the reason you are getting some answers that quote varying stats.


Tom
OK maybe I can clear it up a little. We are (were) set on either a Ventana or Dutch Star 3717. We hadn't totally made our minds up. It's a nice bump in features for sure, but a major bump in $$ too. We are still trying to figure out how much the DS premium is worth to us.

But the Allegro Bus is smack in the middle price wise and has some nice upgrades to boot. Air leveling, much better engineering (wiring and plumbing is nicely tied down and mostly nice bends vs the [Mod Edit] show that is Newmar wiring. Really, they should be embarrassed there. But the cabinetry isn't as nice (of any Newmar) but the styling is more to our taste. DS is a little dated looking. But carpet on the slides vs DS no carpet. and the list goes on...

So I'm hoping I can hear from others who had an Allegro Bus and moved to a Ventana or DS in general and bonus points for those that cross shopped the 37AP and 3717 plans. 3717 kitchen is bigger but the bathroom much tighter etc etc.
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Old 09-20-2020, 06:03 PM   #8
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OK maybe I can clear it up a little. We are (were) set on either a Ventana or Dutch Star 3717. We hadn't totally made our minds up. It's a nice bump in features for sure, but a major bump in $$ too. We are still trying to figure out how much the DS premium is worth to us.



But the Allegro Bus is smack in the middle price wise and has some nice upgrades to boot. Air leveling, much better engineering (wiring and plumbing is nicely tied down and mostly nice bends vs the [Mod Edit] show that is Newmar wiring. Really, they should be embarrassed there. But the cabinetry isn't as nice (of any Newmar) but the styling is more to our taste. DS is a little dated looking. But carpet on the slides vs DS no carpet. and the list goes on...



So I'm hoping I can hear from others who had an Allegro Bus and moved to a Ventana or DS in general and bonus points for those that cross shopped the 37AP and 3717 plans. 3717 kitchen is bigger but the bathroom much tighter etc etc.


I have owned 2 Tiffins a 2013 Allegro Red and a 2016 AB 40AP. Both have been good for us but I now own a 2020 MA and this Newmar coach is a MUCH better built coach than my Tiffin’s. The insulation, how well sealed this unit is over my old unit is amazing. The no carpet and flat floor is so nice, the build quality is a LOT better, etc. if you can afford it I would do the DS.
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Old 09-20-2020, 11:37 PM   #9
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The Newmar has the Comfort Drive which in my mind is a game changer for longer distance days. It also certainly helps in the winds. Just my $.02.
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Old 09-21-2020, 04:25 AM   #10
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I Concur. We just purchased a Newmar this summer and the comfort drive is amazing. I haven't driven one for over 20 years and the difference, again was amazing.
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:10 PM   #11
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We are 4 months into ownership of our Ventana 3717. Our previous coach was a Tiffin Wayfarer Class C. While we did look at the Allegro, I can honestly say that I was biased against Tiffin for all the issues we had with our Wayfarer. The nail in the coffin was our trip to the Tampa RV show where I walked through a Tiffin Zepher. Lots of caulk everywhere to fill in gaps, crooked fittings, loose trim, etc. Of course these may be considered less important aspects compared to mechanical or electrical systems. But I would have expected more from Tiffin for their top end model at the biggest RV show in the country.

In the four months that we have had our Ventana, I can say that I am very happy with the decision as the coach layout is what suites our needs. The power is sufficient for us (we tow a Jeep Gladiator) and the noise, ride and handling are great. However, I am disappointed in the number of issues we have had. Even though Newmar had a TSB for the slide motors prior to our build, I just checked the bolts and a few are loose. We have replaced a window and one of our awnings automatically deployed (while in the Newmar service bay!) and was destroyed. Waiting for a new one. Our steps suddenly stopped extending and retracting. Needed a new part for the front A/C, etc.. We took the coach to Nappanee and they were great at taking care of the issues we had at that time. But we have an appointment at the dealer next month to get the new awning and steps fixed. So I suppose the perceived quality difference between Tiffin and Newmar may not have been that great in hindsight. We are fairly new to RV'ing and perhaps this is the norm for the first year of any DP.

More factual points of our decision where layout (I like having two recliners and a couch), comfort drive (but in full disclosure, we never did take the Bus for a test drive to know the difference), and price (Ventana vs. Bus). There are a couple of other aspects that I can't recall. For example, how do all the options compare side by side? The Ventana has a more modern interior than DS. But the Bus is even more so which may suite your tastes.

Sorry to mix so much opinion in with facts but its hard to separate them!

Good luck with your decision!
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Old 09-21-2020, 05:27 PM   #12
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Sorry to mix so much opinion in with facts but its hard to separate them!


MHC
Yeah it ain't easy that's for sure. I was initially turned off by the 35CP we saw and I now realize it's older style interior vs the newer we saw in the 37AP. It is getting confusing (and fun).

I've created a heat map to measure each of the 5 coach options we have on the table. Once I finish filling it out I'll post it here.

It is interesting that here on IRV2 all the newer Newmars are having this and that issue and on the Tiffin forum it's all older coaches that stuff is wearing out. You don't see "my 2019 Tiffin has XXX issue so much. So maybe at the moment the QA is better at Tiffin than Newmar? I view forum posts as a sort of temperature alarm vs absolute. I realize people only post mostly about issues but the Newmar side is sure way more full of issues on recent coaches than the Tiffin. They aren't perfect either of course but there is a perceived measurable difference.

Anyway I feel lucky to be "having" to choose between a few awesome options.
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Old 09-22-2020, 07:51 AM   #13
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Never owned a Tiffin, chose a 2019 Newmar Ventana LE, based on my priorities. Engineering was my focus, which is best construction IMHO. Let me add that I am surprised I see no mention of the fundamentals that really count in this thread.

First I agree the Newmar wiring is a mess. I attribute this to their willingness to do more customization. How do you build a standard wiring harness that accounts for all the customization available. But, they definitely can do better than today's unstructured approach.

So why is Newmar my choice? Wall construction! Tiffin continues to use composite wall, known in the past for delamination due to internal moisture should leaks occur. Newmar uses a welded aluminum house frame with a hung exterior fiberglass panel on all their DP. Newmar frames are more robust in my opinion. Newmar also sources the base frame from companies long in the business of building truck frames versus Tiffin doing their own frames. You know that a new DP is going to require a visit to the mother ship to clear up warranty items. Newmar offers appointments and Tiffin is first come first serve, get in line when you arrive.

Another plus or minus for the two brands is engine power. Tiffin on average offers more horsepower and torques on comparable coaches. The trade off in my mind is more power for less time or less power for a longer time. Engine life is frequently measured by gallons of fuel consumed. So, the same basic engine producing less power will will give more hours to parts replacement or rebuild.

In the end it comes down to your money, your choice. For me, after the floors, walls, wood work, are past their prime, I would rather have what Newmar offers. That is one persons opinion, mine
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Old 09-22-2020, 04:57 PM   #14
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I came close to pulling the trigger on a Allegro Bus. It is a big step up from the Ventana. Closer to the Dutchstar. I chose Newmar because of insulation, no carpet in the slides, comfort drive, and a tag axle on a 40' coach.
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