4018 Dutchstar with 2 a/c units

[Sky_Boss]

Originally Posted by marcus600

Hi Brian,

The Ventana that I purchased has 3 13.5k and 8kw generator. Was told by dealer that 8kw generator will run 3 units.

What model? 43' I would imagine.

[plasma800]

that just stinks!

This is one of those funny sticking points were they (the dealer) counts on you to not know what you don't know.

I've seen so many cases where the dealer has down optioned an rv, yet pass it off as fully optioned to the unwary, possibly even at fully optioned price.

When I was shopping for my Airstream, I told the salesman I wanted a second A/C, which in that year was the first year ever offered, and asked if he was having any come in soon that had two a/c's... and the salesman told me "he just refuses to order them like that because of the cost"

really? How much more could it REALLY cost the dealer..... especially considering they only had some 12 units on their lot at a time...

[plasma800]

Originally Posted by Sky_Boss

Yep...sales people don't always talk straight.

Yes, Newmar has some of the best insulation in MHs but I've often wondered about the ends of the slide outs. Anyway...

A few ideas.

1. When you know it will get hot, lock the fans into HI.
2. Try to lead the heat by a little bit of pre-cooling.
3. If you aren't using external windshield sun blocking like Magna Shade or other similar products, you are missing a big chance to keep heat out.
4. Of course, use awnings as much as wind and rain allow.

We have 2 ACs on our 43' DSDP. We are parked for the next 6 weeks out in the sun of central IL with no shade. Wall temps get up to 80*+ on the sunny side of coach but by keeping the fans locked in high, it isn't too bad at all. However...if we loose and AC unit...

Don, in my old bus in the heat we had to close all the shades, pull in the slides, close all the vents in the bedroom and bathroom, and shut the door to the bedroom and bathroom area just to barely cool the front... and reverse that at night... closing all the vents up front and opening all in the bedroom what a mess...

Hope you two and the puppies are doing well!!! See you in Fredericksburg?

[hawgguy]

Originally Posted by JSE80

We don't dry camp so
we went for the 3500.00 and will run it on shore power or shut it off if we are on the gen set and it is a problem.

I think you're doing the right thing. For traveling or the rare dry camping you can self-restrict to 2 ACs. The price sounds fair given that it is being done at the factory by factory techs. I think you will enjoy your coach far more with 3 ACs.

[Sky_Boss]

Originally Posted by Brian W

...
Going to call Newmar to get the straight scoop. Not being able to power all 3 A/C's using the generator is probably a deal breaker.

OK...got me scratching my head just a tad.

Are you planning to do a lot of boon docking in the hot desert? I'm just trying to toss out what I would assume are realistic needs.

Running 3 HP A/C units draws 45 amps and an 8K generator provides a tad over 65 amps. That gives you 20 amps which provides a little wiggle room for some other appliances and some room for peak start surges. Granted, not a lot but under what conditions would you be on generator and 3 A/C units running? Even going down the road, running 2 A/C units gives you about anything I think you would need.

Even if you were out in the hot temps that require 3 A/C units you could manage power fairly easy for those short periods of high appliance use. Also, I assume, your EMS option with 3 A/Cs would shed one A/C during high usage still leaving the other 2 A/C units in play.

Just tossing out some thoughts. Of course, at some point the DSDP becomes more of a consideration.

[Brian W]

Originally Posted by bruceisla

The 10k and 12.5k are about 300lb heavier and about 6 inches longer than the 8k ... pretty significant.

Definitely significant, I figured it was heavier, but didn't consider the extra length.

I talked to Michelle yesterday and she has put 2 "specials" in to engineering to see what they say. One is for the upgraded generator, and the other is to see if they can change from 15k to 3 13.5's. She said I should hear something back by today.

Michelle was very nice.

[Brian W]

Originally Posted by Sky_Boss

OK...got me scratching my head just a tad.



Are you planning to do a lot of boon docking in the hot desert? I'm just trying to toss out what I would assume are realistic needs.



Running 3 HP A/C units draws 45 amps and an 8K generator provides a tad over 65 amps. That gives you 20 amps which provides a little wiggle room for some other appliances and some room for peak start surges. Granted, not a lot but under what conditions would you be on generator and 3 A/C units running? Even going down the road, running 2 A/C units gives you about anything I think you would need.



Even if you were out in the hot temps that require 3 A/C units you could manage power fairly easy for those short periods of high appliance use. Also, I assume, your EMS option with 3 A/Cs would shed one A/C during high usage still leaving the other 2 A/C units in play.



Just tossing out some thoughts. Of course, at some point the DSDP becomes more of a consideration.

Not the desert, but Florida, Louisiana, Alabama, etc. Places that get extremely hot, and humid. Yes, we rely on the generator quite a bit. According to Cummins Onan, the 8K is only designed to run 2 A/C's. Other comments on here have led me to have concerns about keeping the coach comfortable in the areas we frequent with only 2 A/C's operating.

We are also considering an Insignia, which comes with a 10kw. We have talked about Dutch Star/Aspire, but I really don't need some of the things they have that raise the price considerably.

Thank you for your suggestions, I truly appreciate them. Just a lot to consider as we move closer to picking what we want and completing the ordering process in November. Just want to have all my ducks in a row.

[Dunebuddy]

Originally Posted by Brian W

Definitely significant, I figured it was heavier, but didn't consider the extra length.

I talked to Michelle yesterday and she has put 2 "specials" in to engineering to see what they say. One is for the upgraded generator, and the other is to see if they can change from 15k to 3 13.5's. She said I should hear something back by today.

Michelle was very nice.

Have you received an answer from Michelle?
I spent a few hours with Michelle in May when my son picked up his new coach. I was finalising my new 4018 tomorrow. I am added this thread to my concerns and options. I can tell you the 10K requires a slide-out-tray in the front to service it from the side. The 8K is serviced from the bottom. Not sure about the 300lbs or 6" inch. I do know the front axle had an upgrade from 17K to 18K on the 43' DS along with 365 vs 315 tires. I wanted a 40' but I may go to 4369 to resolve many issues including a 100gal fuel vs. 150gal.

[Brian W]

Originally Posted by Dunebuddy

Have you received an answer from Michelle?
I spent a few hours with Michelle in May when my son picked up his new coach. I was finalising my new 4018 tomorrow. I am added this thread to my concerns and options. I can tell you the 10K requires a slide-out-tray in the front to service it from the side. The 8K is serviced from the bottom. Not sure about the 300lbs or 6" inch. I do know the front axle had an upgrade from 17K to 18K on the 43' DS along with 365 vs 315 tires. I wanted a 40' but I may go to 4369 to resolve many issues including a 100gal fuel vs. 150gal.

I was denied on both specials, 10k generator and downgrading the three a/c's to 13.5's.

[mpm2433]

I have a 2015 DS 4002 with 2 15M Penguin Heat Pump's and a 8k gen set. I just had the rear ac replaced under warranty. The issue was that water was leaking into the roof and then dripping through the LED's. The dealer stated that the plenum was defective and causing the leak. I hope this resolves the issue.

I am heading into my first summer with 2 ac's. Most of my cooling issues have been related to the heat loading of the windshield. Newmar quoted approx $3800 to add the 3rd ac. short of doing that I ordered Magna shades for the windshield, drivers windows and entry door (along with the small window beside the door) I would like to hear from a owner who added the third ac when and if it happens...mpm

[bench]

We have a 2009 Camelot with 3 ac units and a 10k generator. Last year I tried to order a Dutchstar 4018 with 3 ac units and a 10k generator and was told that the factory could not due that. Later the axel weight issue surfaced and I was glad I passed.

I again tried to order a 2017 unit with 3 ac units and a 10k generator and the factory would not do it. Both times I was told how well insulated the units were and how there was no need for 3 ac units. Interesting however that a 43 foot unit needs 3 ac's. Newmar lost a sale both last year and again this year. So much for allowing customer requests! I want a 40 foot unit with 3 ac units....
I guess I'll just keep my unit.

[ficodek]

Since this is such a "hot" topic this week, I'll share my own experiences with my 2016 DS 4018. We are camped at The Great Outdoors resort in Titusville, FL this week. Daytime temperatures have been in the high 90's (touched 100 for a bit this afternoon), which is mega-hot even for Florida. Feels-like temperatures have been over 105. With no afternoon storms to cool us off, heat and humidity are the rule.

I have to say the coach AC has handled this heat very well, even with 2 AC units.
That said, I have used some techniques from other posts to improve cooling performance and keep the inside comfortably in the low 70's:

1. Make as much of your own shade as you can. I make sure the awnings are out, window awnings are out, visor *and* shade are lowered on the windshield and driver's window early in the morning. Keeping the sun off the sides of the coach definitely helps.

2. Don't let the heat get ahead of you. Starting early in the day, set the front zone to a low temperature (I use 69) and the rear zone at least 3-4 degrees higher (I use 73) so that the front AC compressor runs all the time and the back compressor kicks in when needed. Set the fan speed to HIGH (not Auto) so they run continuously. Yes, there's a hum in the house all day but these units are so much quieter than the ones in our previous fifth wheel that I don't mind it.

3. Minimize use of vent fans, to keep the cool air from being exhausted outside.

4. Do outdoor activities early in the morning or in the evening. Afternoons in the coolness are great times for naps!

I have ordered a Magne Shade for the front windshield and driver's window, I should have that in a few weeks and I can see how much of a difference that makes. Meanwhile, everyone try to keep cool and hydrated!

[JMH]

I am always curious on these AC posts.

First if you own a Newmar, have the polar pack insulation, and your coach is 40' or less then my response applies to you. If you own a SOB or do not own the above then your inputs are irrelevant no matter how well meaning.

Conditions: Own a VTDP 37'. In Las Vegas at Sam's Town. Little shade. Temp is 105. Coach internal temp at back is 81 at arrival. Turn on AC (two 15k). Leave for lunch return @ 2 hours later. Inside temp 74 outside temp 95. One hour later temp at 72. AC running 10 minutes then off for ten minutes then on for 10...

What we did: closed all internal shades and made sure the roof vents were closed. Yes that's it.

If you can not do this and have done all that we did and your coach still won't cool then; have your AC checked out. The output of your AC may not be within spec. Any RV tech should be able to test your cooling output and make sure you have the correct cooling potential. If your cooling meets spec, then have them check for heat intrusion. They have IR test sets that can see if you are leaking too much cooling.

Physics is physics folks. It is not different for me than you. If you don't believe it, write Elvis for his opinion I did and he said I was spot on baby

Mark and Louene Hetrick
Newbee the last VTDP 3725

[photraveller]

I think it depends on how you use your coach. If you stay parked somewhere for days on end, it is easier to put out the Magna shade, window awnings, etc.. to get the heat under control.

If your trips consist of half driving days and half days parked, then that technique is harder to do. Then add to it, the heat from the engine in the back is fighting you as you try to cool down after driving.

Finally, historically, these roof mount AC's get weak as they age, and roll over and die unexpectedly. What do you do with your 40 footer when you're down to 1 AC and a replacement is days away? Just cancel the trip?

For the money we have to pay for these coaches, we should be able to get a cooling system that can bring the hot coach from a day of driving down to a reasonable level by the time I'm done setting up, or at least by evening time.

BTW, I just had a salesman check again, no 3rd AC for 40' 2017 DS, Newmar says NO.

Steve