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Old 12-05-2021, 07:22 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 fan View Post
Hope this helps. The first picture shows the 3012 on L1, it's really on L2.
Yes it does, kind of what I have envisioned.

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Here's a couple pictures of the electric panel. I used side cutters to separate the neutral buss where I needed to and a piece of #8 to connect it to the old inverter subpanel neutral buss (which is now my new L2 neutral buss. I used the 30a breaker that fed the inverter to back feed the old inverter sub panel (red wire). The load is still on the same leg as before. The wire nuts in the picture extend the air conditioner wires to the 3 pole relay I added. If I lost shore power with 2 or 3 A/C's on they would continue on battery. The relay disconnects all 3 when shore power is lost and the 3 switches bypass the relay when I want to run them off the inverter/batteries.
This is really good info although I still need to learn more about AC wiring before I will attempt any of this.

Thank you very much for all the help to understand how this can be done.

Ted.
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Old 12-09-2021, 03:37 PM   #44
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What you have stated here is not true. Yes it is one phase but the phase is split usually by the windings of a transformer and the legs are indeed out of sine wave 180 degrees.
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Old 12-09-2021, 05:14 PM   #45
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Xantrex can have two that work together but you gonna need more battery power one way or the other. I have one 3000 to power fridge and lower power appliances but startup generator if A/C or high power appliances is needed. That’s what it is for and less expensive than installing second inverter and more battery power.
But different strokes for different folks…choose your cup of tea.
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Old 12-09-2021, 05:40 PM   #46
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Split phase or "220" as some refer to it require that the 2 power lines are 180* out of phase which is what is required to run 220V appliances. An RV typically does not require this and simply runs 2 banks of 120V regardless of phase.
Paul, I don't think that is correct. Split phase 220 does not have both hot leads 180* out of phase with each other. They are 120 degrees out of phase with each other. How do I know this is true? Because if we added the third leg of 220 (if it was available), it would be 120 degrees out of phase with each of the other two legs. That is the essence of 3-phase current. 220 split phase wiring simply uses two of the three phases.
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Old 12-09-2021, 06:22 PM   #47
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Recently arrived at CG along with my buddy and upon plugging up on 30 amp service I didn’t get any current. My buddy next door also on adjacent 30 amp pedestal plugged up and received current. Checking my EMS/Surge protector I was getting a reversed polarity error code that was not letting electricity pass through. I contacted the CG manager and showed him what I was seeing and confirmed to him with my voltmeter that the error code was correct.

First he told me he had many RVs plugged up here and never had a complaint but finally agreed to call his electrician to come check it. He arrived fairly soon and began to check it and didn’t see a problem. I had to show him online how the plug was supposed to be wired and his response was he didn’t know it mattered which wire was used for the ground since it worked either way. Yes, I began to question his ability as an electrican. He reversed the wires and I plugged in and everything worked properly. His comment was, “I learned something new today”.

Probably would have used it if my system hadn’t identified it but it can create a deadly situation that way if you lose the ‘real’ neutral and safety ground. If you don’t have electrical protection I highly recommend it. I hardwired my in the RV but there are pedestal versions that also protection.

Happy Camping
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Old 12-10-2021, 08:18 AM   #48
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How did it know?

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Originally Posted by kbmiddle View Post
Recently arrived at CG along with my buddy and upon plugging up on 30 amp service I didn’t get any current. My buddy next door also on adjacent 30 amp pedestal plugged up and received current. Checking my EMS/Surge protector I was getting a reversed polarity error code that was not letting electricity pass through. I contacted the CG manager and showed him what I was seeing and confirmed to him with my voltmeter that the error code was correct.

First he told me he had many RVs plugged up here and never had a complaint but finally agreed to call his electrician to come check it. He arrived fairly soon and began to check it and didn’t see a problem. I had to show him online how the plug was supposed to be wired and his response was he didn’t know it mattered which wire was used for the ground since it worked either way. Yes, I began to question his ability as an electrican. He reversed the wires and I plugged in and everything worked properly. His comment was, “I learned something new today”.

Probably would have used it if my system hadn’t identified it but it can create a deadly situation that way if you lose the ‘real’ neutral and safety ground. If you don’t have electrical protection I highly recommend it. I hardwired my in the RV but there are pedestal versions that also protection.

Happy Camping
I am wondering how your EMS knew there was an issue with neutral. Are you saying the hot wire and the neutral were switched in the receptacle? Or was the neutral and ground switched? A meter cant tell the difference between neutral and ground since they are bonded at the service entrance normally, so I dont know how an EMS could tell. They appear the same potential because of the bond. If you are saying the hot and neutral were swapped, that I can understand because the EMS would see voltage on a leg that was supposed to read the same as ground. Just trying to understand so I know what to look for when i plug in using my 30 amp adapter.
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Old 12-10-2021, 04:38 PM   #49
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Diesel Generator ?

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Originally Posted by Vickie 4369 View Post
Wondering if anyone has gone through the trouble of installing a second 3000 watt inverter and what is involved?

I have an all electric coach and would like to be able to use anything while boondocking.

Ted.
The cost which you will incur in a huge battery bank plus the space and weight and electronic equipment will be amazing. Plus batteries only last for a given amount of time.
Also when charging batteries through a inverter and then converting the stored battery energy through a inverter to 110 VAC there is a loss of energy.
I am sure you have a very efficient diesel generator, why not use it ?
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Old 12-10-2021, 04:56 PM   #50
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The cost which you will incur in a huge battery bank plus the space and weight and electronic equipment will be amazing. Plus batteries only last for a given amount of time.
Also when charging batteries through a inverter and then converting the stored battery energy through a inverter to 110 VAC there is a loss of energy.
I am sure you have a very efficient diesel generator, why not use it ?

I am not sure about the OP...but my reason is simple. We often boon dock in BLM land for a few nights. We are at least 15 miles from the nearest road, and 50 miles from the nearest source of light or man made noise. Seeing the stars at night, and hearing nature is so peaceful, I hate for it to be ruined by the generator.


I would like to use my stove top, and microwave for cooking, and not have to run the generator at night.



Other times that it would be nice include when we are over night stopped at a residential area, where there is not enough service for our coach, but we really want to run the A/C. A generator during the day is ok, but would be bad manners to run at night.
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Old 12-10-2021, 04:58 PM   #51
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That is how we are wired....everything will operate from the inverter(s) and we typically run one of the rooftop AC units during the summer months while driving out here in the desert.

We removed the inverter subpanel, moved those circuits onto the main panel, and wired each side (L1, L2) of the panel directly to the inverters when Shope power is not available. In our case, we envision a future multizone mini-split so we went with split-phase and replaced the inverter subpanel with a 220V panel with a single 20A circuit that will power if/when we do install.

I think you would only need to have your inverters communicate if they were in fact going to be used in a split-phase environment.
Not to be critical, but there is no such thing as split phase ?
If you truly installed a 220 VAC 1 Phase sub panel
You will have needed to connect 110 VAC to each Leg, plus a Neutral and Ground.
If you then install a 220VAC Double Pole Circuit Breaker it connects to each Leg giving you 220 VAC to whatever it is going to operate.
If you install a 110 VAC Single Pole Circuit Breaker, it connects to one Leg and then you have 110 VAC to whatever it is going to operate.
Not to my knowledge are there any appliances or A/C’s in Motorhome’s that require 220 VAC 1 Phase
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Old 12-10-2021, 05:01 PM   #52
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I am not sure about the OP...but my reason is simple. We often boon dock in BLM land for a few nights. We are at least 15 miles from the nearest road, and 50 miles from the nearest source of light or man made noise. Seeing the stars at night, and hearing nature is so peaceful, I hate for it to be ruined by the generator.


I would like to use my stove top, and microwave for cooking, and not have to run the generator at night.



Other times that it would be nice include when we are over night stopped at a residential area, where there is not enough service for our coach, but we really want to run the A/C. A generator during the day is ok, but would be bad manners to run at night.
I understand ��
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Old 12-10-2021, 05:07 PM   #53
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I am wondering how your EMS knew there was an issue with neutral. Are you saying the hot wire and the neutral were switched in the receptacle? Or was the neutral and ground switched? A meter cant tell the difference between neutral and ground since they are bonded at the service entrance normally, so I dont know how an EMS could tell. They appear the same potential because of the bond. If you are saying the hot and neutral were swapped, that I can understand because the EMS would see voltage on a leg that was supposed to read the same as ground. Just trying to understand so I know what to look for when i plug in using my 30 amp adapter.
I believe it recognizes a Ground Fault
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Old 12-10-2021, 05:24 PM   #54
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Not to be critical, but there is no such thing as split phase ?
If you truly installed a 220 VAC 1 Phase sub panel
You will have needed to connect 110 VAC to each Leg, plus a Neutral and Ground.
If you then install a 220VAC Double Pole Circuit Breaker it connects to each Leg giving you 220 VAC to whatever it is going to operate.
If you install a 110 VAC Single Pole Circuit Breaker, it connects to one Leg and then you have 110 VAC to whatever it is going to operate.
Not to my knowledge are there any appliances or A/C’s in Motorhome’s that require 220 VAC 1 Phase
Some higher end units have 220v dryers but thats all Ive heard of. I suppose some Marathon, Newell or Prevost coaches might go beyond that with climate control and cooking.
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Old 12-11-2021, 03:57 AM   #55
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Yes but....

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I believe it recognizes a Ground Fault
Im wondering how it can sense a ground fault if the neutral and ground are switched, and both at the same potential due to the bonding. I know GFCI's will trip if the neutral wire touches the ground wire, even with nothing hooked up to the outlet. Just thinking out loud. I wonder if I ever miswired a 30 amp plug not knowing the hot and neutral had designated terminations. IF they are marked I probably didnt. I changed mine to 50 amp years ago, but sometimes have to use a 30 amp adapter at some parks. I could be in the same boat if the park has miswired their receptacle.
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Old 12-11-2021, 07:43 AM   #56
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This 100%

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I am not sure about the OP...but my reason is simple. We often boon dock in BLM land for a few nights. We are at least 15 miles from the nearest road, and 50 miles from the nearest source of light or man made noise. Seeing the stars at night, and hearing nature is so peaceful, I hate for it to be ruined by the generator.


I would like to use my stove top, and microwave for cooking, and not have to run the generator at night.



Other times that it would be nice include when we are over night stopped at a residential area, where there is not enough service for our coach, but we really want to run the A/C. A generator during the day is ok, but would be bad manners to run at night.
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